Sequoia transmission problem-tranny failed (blew up). Toyota Extra Care hosing me.

[Mark in Baltimore]

I have a 2002 Sequoia that I bought used with the Toyota Extra Care warranty. At about 96,000 miles, I noticed a strange, moaning noise coming from the transmission, as well as a vibration that I could feel under throttle load. I brought the truck in FOUR times while it was under the extended warranty. The first time, the dealer said that they could not hear the noise. The second time the dealer said they could hear a noise and that the differential carrier, a part that was previously replaced under warranty about a year prior, was to blame for the noise and, hence, replaced. (They claim that a bearing was bad on this one year old part. It may have been faulty, but the transmission was still faulty, too.) Unfortunately, replacing that part did not ameliorate the original issue, and I brought it back a third time a month later for the same noise problems, which they claimed they could not hear. (I could hear it.) The fourth time, again, still under the extended warranty, the dealership said that they were able to hear the moaning noise at 70mph. I then brought the truck into the dealer three more times after 100,000 miles, trying to figure out why it continued to make such strange noises. It eventually started making clunking noises, in addition to the moaning/droaning. The dealer lubed the driveshaft and changed the tranny and transfer case fluids at no charge on two, post-extended warranty visits. All the while, I kept on telling the dealer that there was something really wrong with the tranny, that it shouldn't be making these noises and that I was extremely concerned that the transmission would fail.

I was right. Fast forward to 110,000 miles a few weeks ago. I was driving on the highway when the tranny got really noisy. I thought a loud truck was passing me by, but the raucous noise was coming from me! I knew something terminal was about to happen and immediately made plans to drop it off at the dealer. Well, the transmission blew up on I-95 and left me stranded. I could not get the lever out of park after I managed to pull over and stop. I had it towed to the dealer where I was told that “the forward gears were gone”. At first I was told it was going to cost $3,800 for a remanufactured transmission, then I was told $4,000. After much back and forth with the dealer after they realized that I was not going to quietly go away they agreed to do it for just under $3,000. I called a respected local shop, Whitcraft Transmission in Reisterstown, MD, and they said they could have it fixed for $2,500. Naturally, Toyota Motor Sales declined to accept responsibility, as did Toyota Financial Services, the division that handles the Extra Care warranty.

Here is my dilemma, beyond the obvious mechanical failure: because I brought the car into the dealer four times while the car was under the extended warranty, I think that Toyota Extra Care should cover this issue. Not part of it, all of it. The reason I bought this warranty was to cover issues such as this. I have full documentation of the transmissions problems while it was under the 100,000 mile warranty.

I have done extensive research here on Tundra Solutions and understand that the overdrive planetary gears are prone to failure. I also understand that Toyota upgraded the transmission on 2003 to address specific weaknesses with the earlier models.

Any suggestions for how to deal with this? Toyota is giving me the complete runaround with this. For example, when I asked the dealer for the district manager’s name in order to send correspondence to this person, I was told to call Toyota corporate. When I called Toyota, they said I should call the dealer since Toyota did not have the DM’s name. (Yeah, right.) When I called the dealer, they expressed surprise that Toyota said to call them. After another phone call to Toyota corporate, I was told that Toyota did not have the DM’s info. A supervisor then called me back the next day, as per my request, and said that the DM’s changed so much that Toyota did not know which DM was handling the dealership. Moreover, I was told that there was no other person in between Jim Lentz, the president of Toyota Motor Sales USA and her. Apparently, she said that she and all of the other supervisors/reps were given the authority to handle and satisfy all customer service needs. Despite my gleeful request that she replace my transmission for free, she said that this is not an issue that Toyota’s regular warranty can cover. Fortunately, I wore my chest waders because the bullsh*t was beyond waist deep. Needless to say, all of this pass-the-buck nonsense has galvanized my resolve to press on regardless.

In addition to writing to Jim Lentz, I plan on contacting Maryland’s attorney general. Additionally, I will post a poll to see who has had transmission failures here and will contact Peter Angelos’ law firm to see if a class action lawsuit can be filed, something I know nothing about.

I understand that this outside of the scope of the factory warranty, but I am pissed that a Toyota truck that I bought with an extended warranty is not being covered, despite my having brought it in four times while under warranty. I expected far, far better reliability from a Toyota and certainly did not think that I would have a catastrophic powertrain failure at this juncture.

Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[DocPain]

I'm not an attorney or claims to be one.

But, if you complaints of the issues arised and related to the same subject "transmission", they will have to be responsible. Fixing or bring it to them four times related to the same part(s) of the vehicle constituted all to the tranny.
If they tear out the tranny and found no problem with the gears on the prior visits, then most likely hard to blame them.
Since, they did not tear apart the tranny and fixing all other "Bull****s", then they are still liable.
I would threat them with a civil lawsuit, depends on your state. Believe me, one small guy like you threat to sued the dealer...it cost them more to defend themself than fixing your tranny.

[Mark in Baltimore]

DocPain,

Thanks for your help. I am definitely considering litigation. I don't plan on going down without a fight.

Any other comments? Thanks!

[ShrimpBurrito]

Litigation in this case is an inexpensive option because the cost to remedy (cost of the new tranny) is likely within the limits of small claims court in your state. I'm not an attorney, but given that fact, I think I would make this process simple. Don't take days off your life by beating your head against the wall trying to maneuver through their bureaucratic goose hunt. Send something to them that will make them understand you are serious, and that THEY need to exert some effort to resolve the issue.

The breach is probably with both the dealer and the warranty underwriter: the dealer for not finding and fixing the problem when it was under warranty, and the underwriter for refusing to pay for a repair that had manifested while the warranty was in effect. Send 2 copies of a letter to their addresses of record outlining the situation, one via certified mail and one via regular mail in case they refuse the certified. CC your state's AG, their state's AG, and the FTC. It would be good to reference a relevant part of the warranty contract that specifically supports your point. Tell them what you want them to do, and what you will do if they don't. Tell them that if you don't hear from them by 2 weeks from their receipt of the letter, you will file suit. After 3 weeks, go down to your county courthouse, and file a claim against both in small claims court, claiming the cost of the highest written estimate you've received and court costs. Court costs should be a few hundred bucks total at most, and is something you can do without an attorney. In fact, attorneys are usually not even allowed. That will likely be as far as it goes.

Dave

[TRD_148]

My 2002 Sequoia tranny's overdrive went bad at about 75,000 miles (out of warranty) and no help from corporate.

[Mark in Baltimore]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Litigation in this case is an inexpensive option because the cost to remedy (cost of the new tranny) is likely within the limits of small claims court in your state. I'm not an attorney, but given that fact, I think I would make this process simple. Don't take days off your life by beating your head against the wall trying to maneuver through their bureaucratic goose hunt. Send something to them that will make them understand you are serious, and that THEY need to exert some effort to resolve the issue.

The breach is probably with both the dealer and the warranty underwriter: the dealer for not finding and fixing the problem when it was under warranty, and the underwriter for refusing to pay for a repair that had manifested while the warranty was in effect. Send 2 copies of a letter to their addresses of record outlining the situation, one via certified mail and one via regular mail in case they refuse the certified. CC your state's AG, their state's AG, and the FTC. It would be good to reference a relevant part of the warranty contract that specifically supports your point. Tell them what you want them to do, and what you will do if they don't. Tell them that if you don't hear from them by 2 weeks from their receipt of the letter, you will file suit. After 3 weeks, go down to your county courthouse, and file a claim against both in small claims court, claiming the cost of the highest written estimate you've received and court costs. Court costs should be a few hundred bucks total at most, and is something you can do without an attorney. In fact, attorneys are usually not even allowed. That will likely be as far as it goes.

Dave

Dave,

Thank you. Excellent advice. I will look into this approach, as well.

Originally Posted by TRD_148

My 2002 Sequoia tranny's overdrive went bad at about 75,000 miles (out of warranty) and no help from corporate.

I feel your pain . . .

[DH]

Have you used the same dealer the whole time? Sounds like you may need to find a better dealer, a competent one preferably! The dealer can make ALL the difference in the world. Obviously the mechanics are there but they can decide what is/isn’t covered under warrantee.

Never had any issues with my dealer, in fact I listen when they advise other people in their waiting room on needed work. I’ll have to say that I’ve never heard them throw BS and sometimes they are more honest than I ever expect. Point is your choice of dealers is very important and there’re good ones in metro Baltimore.

[Mark in Baltimore]

Originally Posted by DH

Have you used the same dealer the whole time? Sounds like you may need to find a better dealer, a competent one preferably! The dealer can make ALL the difference in the world. Obviously the mechanics are there but they can decide what is/isn’t covered under warrantee.

Never had any issues with my dealer, in fact I listen when they advise other people in their waiting room on needed work. I’ll have to say that I’ve never heard them throw BS and sometimes they are more honest than I ever expect. Point is your choice of dealers is very important and there’re good ones in metro Baltimore.

Hi, DH,

I bought the truck from Jerry's Toyota have have had them do most of the dealer-related servicing. I live closer to Bill Kidd's/Timonium Toyota and took the truck there a few times. Thanks for your advice.

[Mark in Baltimore]

For anyone who cares, here is the letter I wrote to Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care. Their response as of today was, "Sorry, claim denied."

Let the games begin . . . .



June 11, 2008


Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care
PO Box 9550
Cedar Rapids, Iowa, 52409
ATTN: Luke

Dear Luke,

I am writing to Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care to continue the initiation of a claim for my 2002 Toyota Sequoia truck. The transmission to my truck failed on April 16, 2008 at 113,130 miles. The truck had to be towed to my dealership, Jerry’s Toyota, whereupon I was told that “the forward gears were gone.” I have been told that the repair bill is $3,000 for a remanufactured transmission.

Although, technically, the failure occurred outside of the Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care warranty period, I firmly and unequivocally maintain that Toyota Extra Care needs to address this issue and replace the transmission, at no expense to me, other than my normal deductible, since, prior to the extended warranty running out, I brought the truck in five times for the transmission problem (not four as I had previously thought). I have not abused this truck, have maintained it properly and feel that I have done what I needed to do to have the dealership address my concerns with the transmission while it was under the warranty period. That Jerry’s Toyota decided that my concerns were not worth spending any time to investigate any further is now my overarching problem. However, I knew that there was something going on with the transmission. I could hear it. I could feel it. I knew that there was an abnormal condition with the transmission. When you drive a car often enough, you learn its ways, feel its movement, understand its sounds, hear its voice. My transmission was telling me that it was sick.

I brought the truck to Jerry’s Toyota on the following occasions. I have enclosed the receipts for these service visits:

-10/11/06 at 96,459 miles – Under warranty. I stated that there was a low harmonic noise coming from the transmission (dealership wrote down engine. This is not correct). The tech could not hear the noise that I heard.

-1/17/07 at 99,130 miles – Under warranty. I stated that there was a noise coming from the powertrain or transmission. The dealership heard the noise and replaced the . . . differential carrier, an item that was previously replaced on 12/2/05 under warranty. Supposedly, the pinion bearing was faulty. (When the diff carrier was replaced the first time, I should add that it took three visits (only two were recorded. One visit was when I was in the neighborhood and was not a scheduled appointment) to Jerry’s Toyota before anyone believed that the differential carrier was faulty. I finally had to drag the service manager, John, into the car to show him that, no, the truck should not be binding up under pavement when the indicator light claimed that the vehicle was out of 4WD. None of the techs seemed to understand this simple and basic effect of 4WD on dry pavement. If they had, they would have understood that there was an incorrect situation. I had to go to the dealership three times before they were able to understand an obvious problem. This is a perfect example of the service lethargy at Jerry’s Toyota and how they have to be forced to take action.

What are the odds that the differential carrier that was replaced a year earlier could have been faulty? Anything man-made is subject to error, undoubtedly, but the fact that I brought the truck into the dealer for the same noise a month after the differential carrier was replaced (see next service entries), and that the mechanic was able to hear it is a valid indication that . . . the dealer replaced the wrong part. Although the differential carrier may have been problematic, logic would dictate that, by virtue of the fact that my transmission experienced a catastrophic failure, that there was more to the noise than just the diff carrier.

-2/22/07 at 99,539 miles – Under warranty. A month later, I brought the truck in for the same noise. The dealership came back and said that they could not hear the noise. Since I did not ride with the service tech, I cannot ascertain if this was true. However, based on the following tech having heard the noise, clearly I was not imagining anything.

2/28/07 at 99,748 miles - Under warranty. I brought the truck in again for the same noise. The tech said he was able to hear a moaning noise at highway speeds. I was asked to bring the truck in on 3/12/07, which I did. Why the dealership chose to not investigate the transmission is beyond me.

-3/12/07 at 100,206 miles – Under warranty (mileage outside of warranty due to dealership request for me to bring truck in after 2/28/07 service visit). The tech did, in fact, hear the noise and chose to lubricate the driveshaft, a solution which I knew was not the root cause. I have heard the driveshaft clunk before and this was not that noise. Why the dealership chose to not investigate the transmission is beyond me.

-12/18/07 at 109,836 miles – I brought the truck in, yet again, for a noise coming from the transmission. The tech heard the noise but chose to replace all of the fluids in the transmission instead of investigating further. I also stated that there was a thunking noise when coming to a stop. No, it was not the driveshaft; I know what that sounds like and lubed it before. This noise was not repeatable with the tech in the car.

-2/11/08 at 111,846 miles – I brought the truck in again for the thunking noise. Again, the driveshaft was lubed but this did not remedy the issue.

I did not bring the truck into the dealership until the transmission finally failed on 4/16/08.

Why did Jerry’s Toyota not address the issue when the truck was brought in on 3/12/07? The dealership seems to have taken the quick-and-easy route by lubing the driveshaft. I knew this was not the cause of the noise I was hearing.

My truck has just over 113,000 miles; why did this Toyota transmission fail?? As I have demonstrated, this transmission has had ongoing problems for a while, which, as my research indicates, is most likely due to an incorrectly specified spacer or bearing that can cause eventual but not necessarily swift damage in the gearbox components, most notably, the planetary gears.

As it turns out, Toyota did, in fact, know about a major weakness with the Sequoia transmission and, hence, made revisions to its later Sequoias’ planetary gears, specifically to its spacers and bearings, to enhance durability. I have a half inch thick stack of experiences culled from the internet from other Toyota Tundra/Sequoia owners who have had similar problems with their vehicles. Apparently, my problem is far from isolated.

For the price of my used Toyota Sequoia truck, I could have bought a new Chevy Suburban. However, I chose a Toyota, and paid top-dollar for one, because I was quite familiar with the marque’s excellent reliability, and because I had owned a Toyota 4Runner. New or used, Toyota’s are not inexpensive vehicles, so it took me twenty years to be able to afford one.

I am not a wealthy man, so having to pay $3,000 for a transmission is a huge financial burden. Additionally, when I bought the truck from Jerry’s Toyota, the dealership sold me on the peace of mind that comes from purchasing a Toyota Extra Care powertrain warranty, words which are sounding distinctly hollow at the moment. I bought, and paid top-dollar for, a Toyota because I expected for it to last many, many miles without having a catastrophic problem. I bought the Toyota Extra Care warranty because I thought it would cover me in case the factory had a design issue that they might not know about until after the factory warranty had passed.

I am incredibly disappointed that the dealership did not take more action to further investigate a clear problem with the transmission. Moreover, I am also shocked that Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care has not made a more concerted effort to take care of a loyal customer, even though I initiated a claim in April. I was told that Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care “declined to cover” the repair.

I have tried to contact the DPSM but have had an incredibly frustrating experience by both Toyota Motor Sales and Jerry’s Toyota regarding obtaining this information. I initially asked for the DPSM’s name and/or number from Jerry’s Toyota and was told to contact Toyota Motor Sales. When I called Toyota for this information, I was told that Toyota did not have this information. How can this be? I then called the dealer who was surprised that Toyota did not have this information since the dealer did not have it, either. This makes no sense, for how can both the dealer and Toyota not know who their DPSM?

It gets better, for the dealer’s story soon changed. They called me back and said that they could not provide the DPSM’s name, not that they did not have it as they previously asserted. I then called Toyota and was told that the DPSM’s were moved around so often, they did not know who this person was. When I pressed the customer service agent to see if I could speak with someone in a higher capacity who could address this issue, I was told that there was no one in between her and the president of Toyota Motor Sales, Jim Lentz. Astounding. The buck was being passed so much that hunters were building deer stands around my house . . .

Because Toyota’s DPSM is such a reclusive mystery, I thought I would let all parties involved know that, based on my research, Danny Ngo is the District Parts and Service Manager for Jerry’s Toyota. I hope someone saves my letter so that this ephemeral information is not lost again. By the way, I contacted a friend who knows someone at Koon’s Toyota and obtained this information.

Unfortunately, all of this stonewalling has only served to motivate me even further. To say that I am annoyed is absolutely an understatement. I am politely but firmly asserting that Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care, Jerry’s Toyota and Toyota Motor Sales take care of this problem that I have tried on five occasions to have addressed.

I would like to take care of this issue amicably, but in case anyone thinks that I am going to roll over and go away . . . please understand that I am not going away, I will not let this rest and I will make this my absolute mission in life to see this through until I am satisfied with the outcome. I expected Jerry’s Toyota and Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care to honorably take care of any powertrain problem I had under warranty, not wait for my transmission to fail spectacularly after, most conveniently for Toyota, it was out of warranty.

If I do not receive any satisfaction, I will contact Doug Gansler, the Maryland State Attorney General, the local Better Business Bureau, Jim Lentz at Toyota Motor Sales and Jim Stautberg of Jerry’s Toyota, as well as Toyota’s elusive DPSM, Danny Ngo.

Furthermore, although I certainly have no wish to take this issue to this level, I am prepared to initiate a small claims suit against any and all parties. I will also post my experience on every single Toyota discussion board on the internet to warn potential buyers of the Sequoia’s transmission issues. I have also reserved www.toyotasequoiaproblem.com and www.toyotaproblem.com and will create a website documenting my problems for any consumers who are thinking of buying this product. I will present this information to local consumer help reporters John Materese at WMAR -TV and Barry Simms at WBAL-TV so that they can further investigate this matter. How much is a positive public relations image worth to Toyota Motor ales, Toyota Financial Services/Toyota Extra Care and Jerry’s Toyota?

Again, I am hoping I do not have to go to these extreme measures to satisfactorily resolve this matter. But, if I have to, I will.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Best regards,


Mark

[JRE56]

Very,very well written!I don't understand why they won't fix your truck after seeing they didn't properly check or repair it when it was under warranty.You definately have a case.Give this letter to your lawyer,it speaks for it self.GOOD-LUCK!!
Keep us informed.

[Mark in Baltimore]

Thank you. My plans are just going minto motion.

[imjin]

If it helps at all and if it turns out to be related to the Planetary gear, I believe the original problem with that part was that it had something to do with a metallurgical flaw in the original casting. I read something on it years back, but it was something about the mix wasn't sufficient to hold up to certain stress tolerances, so it was revamped in the 2003's.

[Mark in Baltimore]

Thank you. Do you know where I can procure documentation on this change?