After 3 months and dozens of phone calls I was finally able to get the District Serivce and Parts Rep for Toyota to drive with me on the highway, so I could demonstrate the drive train rumbling I've been experiencing. I believe this gentlemen must have studied law because he was remarkably adept at saying "tough luck, buddy" in several hundred words. Mine is a '03 Sequoia with ~32k miles, and I've noticed this rumbling since about 15k, and determined it was a serious drive train issue at ~24k.
I clearly stated that this vibration is noticable at highway speeds when the car is warm ~50mph but that I probably couldn't convince them they had felt anything until I get to 80mph - I've noticed a pattern with Toyota employees not being able to hear or feel anything wrong with their vehicles during the warranty period. He noted on the Toyota file that "CUST STATES NOISE AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS ABOVE 80MPH." A bit of a twist isn't it?
He arrived 10 minutes late without apology but commented on my punctuality (?!) I took him on county highways where we could get to 65 mph max and I could feel the vibration above 50mph, even though the drive train wasn't yet hot. The vibration is similar to driving on grooved pavement - a very distinct frequency that grows stronger 1) when the drive train is hot and 2) when the vehicles goes faster.
Although I could feel that distinct rumble at 50mph, he claimed he could not. Nor could he feel it at 60 or 70mph. It took 20 minutes to get to the highway where I could get to a speed where it would be impossible for him to deny feeling that rumbling. At 75 it was glaringly obvious and he still claimed he could feel nothing. 80 no. 85 no. I asked him if he was serious, if he really couldn't feel it and he said "I don't feel anything abnormal." I had to get it to 95mph before he would admit that he could feel it, by that time it was not just vibrating the car but quite audible and shaking the contents of the car. I'm not certain he admitted to feeling it then because it was so fantastically obvious and he was beginning to appear absurd, or because he was scared of that speed. Ironically, because he apparently had some sort of sensory deficiency that prevented him from observing the obvious, I had to drive over the speed limit to literally force him to feel it. His response was to write in my Toyota file that I was advised to obey all speed laws! Also, because he had an unusually, no, a remarkably hard time noticing a obvious vibration from the drive train, he could put in the Toyota record that this was specifically a "high speed" phenomenon, when in actuality it occurs as low as ~45mph. He can say he only felt rumbling at high speeds because 1) there is no rule requiring that he be honest, and 2) there is no way to prove he's being deceptive. Pretty handy isn't it? Toyota! Oh what a feeling!
An earlier drive with a Toyota service rep to 65 mph resulted in admission of the vibration immediately, even before the drive train warmed up.
I had a very clear discussion with the service rep after this where I made sure he defined all of Toyota's terminology. Ultimately he admitted that Toyota will identify things that are "broken" (really and truly broken) entirely at their own discretion. What this means is that if you're drive your Toyota out of the showroom and the engine falls out on the floor, it may not technically be "broken" to Toyota. This may simply be "characterstic" of that particular vehicle. He also pointed out that "sounds" and "smells" weren't covered under Toyota's warranties regardless of the fact that my Sequoia's problem is a vibration or rumbling. Since my particular case is a "vibration", they will only repair it if it is due to a "failure" of one of their parts. So the question now is what constitutes a failure? I compared this vibration to the vibration that occurs when a CV joint fails (yet continues to function) which they would repair under warranty as a true "failure." Well, this is where their creative interpretation of "broken" comes into play. Toyota will see the CV joint as broken and therefore making noise, yet not yet necessarily have fallen to pieces at your feet. But this does not apply to a differential or drive shaft. If it's a differential rumbling or vibrating, perhaps even transmission or transfer case, then this is classified as a "characterstic." Of course it appears that things become "characteristics" instead of "failures" as the price to repair them goes higher. I told him that had I experienced this "characteristic" when I test drove two other 03 Sequoias, I would never have bought one, and I'm sure most everyone else wouldn't either.
No response.
Hence, this is my last Toyota.
I'll pay to have the differential replaced at a reputable 3rd party shop that can turn this vehicle into an actual 4wd truck. Everytime I change the differential oil, metal fragments come out, and they're open differentials so we can only ever have 2 wheels drive at a time.
I asked why there was a "sulfur smell TSB" if there was nothing technically broken, he went into a rather lengthy technical definition of what consitutes an enhancement to the customer's driving experience with an adjustment or modification while still maintaining Toyota's performance specifications. Did I mention he appeared to be an attorney? The sulfur smell TSB actually fixes the smell of the exhaust, and not the huge exhaust leak into the cabin. Maybe that's why they were willing to fix the smell, so they wouldn't have to fix the exhaust leak.
He implied that this rumbling in a very new $40,000 car was simply an issue of my errant expectations, not the result of a flaw in their vehicle.
He suggested that if I can reproduce that rumbling at a lower speed (??) after warming up on a long trip, I could bring it into another dealer. Of course, this would be moot because the other Dealer can simply say "that's normal" too. In fact, I ask you guys, what do you think the consumer's recourse is to having a manufacturer claim ANY defect is simply normal and requires no repair?
I would have put a Styrofoam cup half full of coffee, water or whatever on the center counsel so if it does indeed vibrate as bad as you say, you don't really need to feel anything as opposed to see something. He can't possibly be numb and blind can he? Dumb and numb = Yes, but numb and blind?
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I would have put a Styrofoam cup half full of coffee, water or whatever on the center counsel so if it does indeed vibrate as bad as you say, you don't really need to feel anything as opposed to see something. He can't possibly be numb and blind can he? Dumb and numb = Yes, but numb and blind?
Heh, good question! I thought of the coffee thing actually, and even told the guy "if I had coffee in the cup holder you could SEE this." So you and I are on the same wavelength.
Had there been coffee in the cup holder at 95mph the vibration was so bad it would have spilled everywhere.
Bottom line is that Toyota knows the problem well and is refusing to fix it.
dont slap me for saying this its the american workers.
I drive my wifes 02 4 runner and its FLAWLESS- no vibrations, everythings super tight.
My 03' is real nice but its a far cry from the Jap-Spec trucks. This is what happens when they build trucks in the USA IMHO. I dont care if anyone agrees with this notion but i know its the truth after owning and driving multiple Toyotas.
Now as far as the vibration - Id check these in the order listed.... Tire/wheel balance, next id check for improper setup of the ring/pinion gears (metal frag in oil after second oil change???), if that isnt it then id go to the drive shafts and reballance them, then id go to the U-Joints and see if they are installed correctly (improper tq. on one side of the U-joints can cause the bearings to be out of round)
All of these things can be contributed to BAD assembly and not faulty engineering.
I am an american and im in support of American workers and Jobs BUT i cant tell you how much i wish the Tundra was assembled in Japan!
The glory days of Japanese vehicles is gone - Unless its truly built in Japan. IMHO
dont slap me for saying this its the american workers.
I diive my wifes 02 4 runner and its FLAWLESS- no vibrations, everythings super tight.
I had a 2000 4 runner that was 100% japanese and i had only one problem, and the dealer actually fixed that. I have to agree. In my experience, the 100% Japanese vehicle (or 0% American) had much higher quality. How disappointing. Seriously, how do we expect to maintain any global market competitive edge like this?
Curious, do you think the vibration is coming from the forward movement of the vehicle, or the actual drivetrain components that are moving? I wonder if the vibration could be reproduced, say on a dyno with just the rear tires turning?
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Curious, do you think the vibration is coming from the forward movement of the vehicle, or the actual drivetrain components that are moving? I wonder if the vibration could be reproduced, say on a dyno with just the rear tires turning?
I *think* it's slop in the rear diff personally, although I don't have the kind of expertise DJ and others here do. It's totally repeatable, so yes I think this can be seen on a dyno as long as the rear wheels get up to highway speeds.
The reason I think that it's rear diff slop is that the vibration gets stronger when you ease up on the gas pedal slightly, and it gets weaker during acceleration and deceleration. I attribute that to backlash in the rear diff but am open to other ideas.
I'm half-planning on putting in a Eaten electric locker with LSD in the back, and then carefully inspecting the Toyota orginal when it's out. If I go that route I'll put photos and measurements up on a website for everyone.
I've heard that the problem originates in the front diff. It's a balance issue in the differential itself and doesn't affect all trucks. For some reason some that came through were not balanced or machined properly. I don't know where I read this. Probably here, but maybe edmunds. Seems Lexus addressed it in the GX470.
I had a very similar issue with my former GMC Sierra. Turned out the shaft coming off the driveshaft into the engine had a spot that was worn flat. Everytime it rotated there was a definite vibration and rumbling. While this may not be your issue, check it because if it is your problem it will be much cheaper than replacing a differential.
Good Luck!
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Not being a technical guy, I'm not sure what the shaft is called but on that truck there was a short (less than 16") shaft (input shaft maybe?) that came out of the transmission to a U-joint that was connected to the driveshaft. This shaft was round, like a cylinder, but one side of it had worn a flat spot on it. So, it was no longer perfectly round. With each revolution, their was a vibration and rumbling much like you are describing. With faster speeds, it was much more noticeable...like yours.
Being that the problem you are having is a known Toyota issue, that is probably what you are experiencing, but maybe the problem I had is your problem. If so, it cost about $35 to have the shaft remade and I did the work myself so it is much cheaper than a new differential.
Hope this helps. Let me know if I might be able to provide more info.
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A buddy of mine had had the engine on his Lexus RX go bottom up after like 20k miles on it. The dealership said that they didn't change the oil frequently enough. I mean they went over like 4 or 5 hundred miles once or twice. He filed a complaint with the Better Buisness Bureau and they went to arbitartion and he won. Lexus coughed up a brand new engine. ch
Sounds like you may have already given up but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway for you to think about. I own a Tundra - not a Sequoia - so I've never seen the drivetrain on your vehicle but I imagine their similar. I had a bad vibration that turned into a squeal after it got bad enough (took several months) and that turned out to be the center support bearing on the driveline. Toyota will tell you that slop in this support is "normal" but after it got to the point of producing a squealing noise, they finally decided it wasn't "normal" after all. I too could feel the vibrations anywhere between 45 on up to however fast I was driving. My truck was past the warrantee period but they repaired it under the drive train warrantee and it didn't cost me a dime. If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at that center support (if it has one) and look particularly for excessive slop in all directions, and for any torn rubber in the support sticking out the sides.
Good Luck!
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I own a brand new sequoia 07 and its probably made in america but I'm getting some vibration when accelerating in the floor board. I don't accelerate hard at all and It can get tiresome when stopping and going in traffic. The thing is I cant exactly locate the problem because it could be a number of things like bearings, transmission, differential, engine, or drive shaft. Plus I don't want to have the dealer look at it because I haven't been too impressed with them lately. I have been doing 3,000 mile oil changes with mobil 1 synthetic so thats not the problem. I have driven a rental 07 4runner and it is as smooth as glass even with a v6 rather than the smoother v8. Correct me if I'm wrong but the 4runner is made in japan and the sequoia is mostly american built. I think that toyota shud just stick to making their cars in Japan. If I wanted to buy american id buy a ford or chevy. I wouldn't buy a toyota because it's made in America. Id buy a toyota because its better quality. If toyota keeps this up they will end up just like the big american car companies.
My last Toyota (drive train vibration)
its the american workers.
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