We finally had a good amount of snow here in southwestern Connecticut, about 6-7" atleast. So I decided to go out for a bit. When I went out (at night), majority of the roads weren't even plowed well which was good because I got to test out my Sequoia to see how it does with this amount of snow. Overall it wasn't too bad. I was driving like an old lady though, this had to be the first time I've driven under 25-30 constantly. FYI I did have 4wd engaged of course, in 2nd gear the entire time, and have Revo tires (just for anyone that asks). While I was driving, there was still a good amount of snow on the road, the center of the roads were a bit more clearer then the sides and so I was kind of surprised to see other Ford, Chevy trucks just whiz on by on the sides of the road. So I decided to try it and as soon as I added a little pressure to the pedal, the car would begin to loose traction and slide. Me and my friend laughed as we came to a stop. This past week, I have seen several suv and truck commercials that showed the vehicles driving through a good amount of snow on the road as if it was no problem for them; and everytime I see these commercials, I wonder how I can drive like that too in my Sequoia. Anyways the point of this post is to see how other SUV or Truck owners on here drive like in the snow?
I don't have a Sequioa but I have a Tundra and it slides around a little bit when I am finishing a turn. I don't worry much because I am quite use to it.
My mom has a full time four wheel drive 4runner with a VSC etc.. and I have driven it before and there is much less sliding when complete a turn..Both trucks have the same Michelien cross terrain tires which are ok in the snow.
I guess I would sum it for me by saying that it is the 4wheel system that makes the difference.
I have had SUV's and pickups and all the pickups have tended to be light in the rear end. It has nothing to do with the 4x4 system. I haul a 450# snowmobile in deep snow all the time and there is no slip at all when the sled is in the bed. When I am empty, there is some minor slide. You will find a slight acceleration when this happens causes the front wheels to pull you through the turn with a minimum of slide. My 2 cents....
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2008 Tundra 4x4 Double cab Limited. Back to Tundra after 2 years with a Chevy 2500HD.
my tundra (2WD) with the lsd doesnt do bad in the 8" we got here in DE. It will slde if you give it too much gas in the start but it does hook up good when you start out slow, im going to put some weight in the bed that will help in deeper snow, and if that dont my inverted v chains will. Im especially happy with the anti locks they work great, better than the old f150 with the rear antilocks, now i can turn and jam them on and still turn no problem.
In my unhumble but slightly experienced opinion, the biggest factors determining how "drivable" your Sequoia is are the tread of the tires and the condition of the snow at the surface of the road.
"Highway" tires with no tread lugs to speak of won't bite snow nearly as well as tires with at least a "mud and snow" tread. My Michelin LTS M/S tires have such treads, and yet they are fabulous highway tires as well. The point is that, if you need "serious" tires for snow, you don't have to give up "serious" tires for the highway.
If the road is really frozen when the snow falls, then the "base" at the bottom of the snow will be hard. If the snow is a few inches to a foot or so deep, this hard surface will give your treads something to grip. It will also give the snow compacted under your treads something to grip. If it's not cold enough, it just makes a layer of "grease" at the road surface. To compare, I've seen St. Louis brought to its knees by a dusting of snow that was only 1/8" thick (no, I'm not exaggerating -- this really happened), but I lived for years in the mountains where snow, heavy or light, didn't slow us down at all. The biggest difference, in my opinion, was the temperature of the road.
So, keep this in mind when you tackle the snow. I've had to crawl along below walking speed to keep from sliding, but I've also driven many times across the Texas panhandle in fresh snow at 70+ mph without sliding at all.
Went out last night for a few ambulance calls and had a ball (even though I had to use the chains on the Ambulance a couple times). The Nokians LOVE this stuff. Now my observations, started out driving in AWD mode (center diff NOT locked) the vsc system does a great job of keeping the truck straight and getting you into "stupidty" problems but, I HATE having the throttle cut. Driving through 12"+ drifts etc. the truck almost stops completely trying to keep you from spinning (maybe this what PG4L experienced?)
Now, since I already knew that having the center diff locked disables the VSC.....
4 Hi with center diff locked, THIS is what I like, you can hit these larger banks and drifts and step on the gas to accelerate and power through it and not feel like an idiot that your truck is slowing down when you hit a drift (or get rear ended for same reason). Granted discretion is needed and you WILL slide on corners if you go to fast
Went out last night for a few ambulance calls and had a ball (even though I had to use the chains on the Ambulance a couple times). The Nokians LOVE this stuff. Now my observations, started out driving in AWD mode (center diff NOT locked) the vsc system does a great job of keeping the truck straight and getting you into "stupidty" problems but, I HATE having the throttle cut. Driving through 12"+ drifts etc. the truck almost stops completely trying to keep you from spinning (maybe this what PG4L experienced?)
Now, since I already knew that having the center diff locked disables the VSC.....
4 Hi with center diff locked, THIS is what I like, you can hit these larger banks and drifts and step on the gas to accelerate and power through it and not feel like an idiot that your truck is slowing down when you hit a drift (or get rear ended for same reason). Granted discretion is needed and you WILL slide on corners if you go to fast
I agree, I've been locking the center diff once the road is completely covered. The VSC is good when conditions are inconsistent and road conditions can sneak up on you, otherwise I prefer the diff locked.
While I was driving, there was still a good amount of snow on the road, the center of the roads were a bit more clearer then the sides and so I was kind of surprised to see other Ford, Chevy trucks just whiz on by on the sides of the road. So I decided to try it and as soon as I added a little pressure to the pedal, the car would begin to loose traction and slide. Me and my friend laughed as we came to a stop.
Unless your Sequoia is different than mine, it cannot actually operate with all 4 wheels powered. It has a drive shaft to each wheel so it gets the 4WD emblem, but because it has open differentials, you cannot have drive to all 4 wheels under any circumstance.
If you had front and rear lockers, or LSD, you could do what the Fords and Chevys are doing. The center locker helps a little bit, and it certainly disables the pesky VSC which will completely debilitate your vehicle.
Unless your Sequoia is different than mine, it cannot actually operate with all 4 wheels powered. It has a drive shaft to each wheel so it gets the 4WD emblem, but because it has open differentials, you cannot have drive to all 4 wheels under any circumstance.
If you had front and rear lockers, or LSD, you could do what the Fords and Chevys are doing. The center locker helps a little bit, and it certainly disables the pesky VSC which will completely debilitate your vehicle.
Disappointing isn't it?
You've lost me ...
My Sequoia does indeed have three open differentials -- one on the front axle, one in the rear axle, and one in the transfer case. Other than that, I disagree with just about everything you stated.
If none of the four tires slip, then all four tires pull. That is "drive to all 4 wheels".
I have performed this test many times over four winters in the snow with my Sequoia: If I put it in 2WD, I can give it a little throttle and it will move, but I can give it a little more throttle and at least one rear tire will lose traction, at which point that tire just spins. If I then put it 4WD, I can give it one hell of a lot of throttle and it zooms right out. It takes a lot of throttle to make at least one tire lose traction. The point is that all four wheels drive until at least one tire loses traction, at which point the other three wheels are not "driven" and the one tire just spins. In 4WD, each tire gets half the torque it would in 2WD, so it's less likely that the torque for a given acceleration is enough to break it loose. That's why 4WD pulls so much harder than 2WD in slick conditions.
So, my question is: Why do you not think this is "four wheel drive", and why do you say it "cannot actually operate with all 4 wheels powered"? Please put some kind of reasoning behind this. I'm really baffled.
If the center differential is locked, then it will lose "drive" only if at least one wheel ON EACH AXLE loses traction. That is less likely than losing traction on any one wheel, so it can pull harder. That's why it's there, and it works.
I personally have a different opinion as the the "debilitating" effects of VSC. Your mileage may differ -- opinions are like that. I find that VSC makes it VERY difficult to spin out, which I think is a very good thing. It is one of the reasons I bought the vehicle before moving to the mountains.
Now, as to "traction control", yup, it is "debilitating". If I could turn it off and leave VSC on, I would do so in a microsecond.
m000 has the right idea, dj cleared a couple things up...
rear or front wheel drive is actually one wheel drive unless you have a locker--the road normally acts as a locker. then it's 2wd.
in 4wd, youre really 2wd unless you have a lockers...again, the road surface normally acts as a locker.
without the locking action of a spider brake or traction on the road (or trail) surface, the tire with the most traction is held in place, while the diff allows the other to spin in place--2wd becomes 1wd and 4wd is 2wd. driveshafts go to all tires, but not all tires are being driven due to the differential.
i really like the article on differentials on howstuffworks.com, it explains all this with a bunch of animated diagrams better than i can.
how are you guys doing with the awd mode in the sequoia? how well does it handle in snow with the center diff unlocked?
a tip for driving in snow...around turns and over slick spots, just take your foot off the gas. the truck is surprisingly well balanced, it doesn't usually oversteer unless youre really moving...just letting off the gas (and the brake!) and letting the truck finish the turn on its own keeps me out of trouble. as soon as i touch either gas or brakes, either the rear swings around like a fat girl swing dancing or the abs comes on in the front.
somebody mentioned nokian snow tires...they are *amazing*. very quiet on the highway, great in the snow. dunno if theyd do well in "bottomless" powder, but for normal snow--like to about 6"--from my experience with nokians on a tundra for 3000 miles of winter driving through BFE from utah to alaska, they perform very well in a variety of winter conditions.
you can take your truck (with decent snow tires!) through about a foot of snow in 4wd. aired down and with good lugged tires, probably more...i was running around for a while in about a foot of snow plus or minus a few inches with the 35s aired down fairly low, and was pulling people up an ice covered hill with that same foot of snow on top.
You people have really lost me. The Sequoia is "full time 4WD" when 4WD is selected. All four wheels are powered equally until traction is lost. The center diff just keeps each wheel rotating freely so it does not bind around corners, etc. When you lock the center diff you're basically operating in traditional 4WD.
You people have really lost me. The Sequoia is "full time 4WD" when 4WD is selected. All four wheels are powered equally until traction is lost. The center diff just keeps each wheel rotating freely so it does not bind around corners, etc. When you lock the center diff you're basically operating in traditional 4WD.
Very true but m0000's point is that the Sequoia does not have an LSD (unless you added your own) because it was not even an option. The Sequoia uses the TRAC system to modulate brakes independently creating a "virtual" LSD on both front and rear. The Virtual is ok for most conditions but an LSD or true locker provides power to both wheels on that axle at the same time (not just adding brakes to the one with least traction trying to add torque to the other). In really sloppy stuff (or offroad) I would definitely prefer to have an LSD in addition to the electronics. When you step on the gas IF one wheel spins the clutches in the LSD lock them together so both rears spin at the same rate with the same power.
My old Exploder did not have an LSD either when I bought it (but didn't benefit from traction control either). The first snow was EMBARRASSING, in 2WD with the stock Firestone ATX II's, it would not make it up a 5-10% grade. In 4WD it would struggle and you could feel one of the rears and one front spinning but at least made it up the hills. The next day I had a factory LSD put in and went back to the same hill. Made it up in 2WD and was able to really accelerate in 4WD (THEN I added the Nokians..... ). Most of the big (unreliable) 3 have rear LSD either std or as an option. I don't know about lsd on the front as I think would DEFINITELY make for some steering issues as it tried to lock around turns (and parking). Off road, rock climbing etc. sure big benefit but not on road. I don't think most of the unreliable 3 have LSD on the fronts either.
Just go back from a round trip snow coved trip, from Columbus, Ohio to Windsor, Cananda. The sequoia with the revo's handled great. Most of the time up was spent in 4h with the VSC on, keeps you on the snow coved roads. Lost traction a couple of time and the VSC would correct, great at highway speeds.
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2005 QX56
2004 Black Tundra Double Cab
2002 232 Rinker Cuddy (my toy) for sale
2005 Ebbtide 2600 CBR
My Sequoia does indeed have three open differentials -- one on the front axle, one in the rear axle, and one in the transfer case. Other than that, I disagree with just about everything you stated.
If none of the four tires slip, then all four tires pull. That is "drive to all 4 wheels".
I have performed this test many times over four winters in the snow with my Sequoia: If I put it in 2WD, I can give it a little throttle and it will move, but I can give it a little more throttle and at least one rear tire will lose traction, at which point that tire just spins. If I then put it 4WD, I can give it one hell of a lot of throttle and it zooms right out. It takes a lot of throttle to make at least one tire lose traction. The point is that all four wheels drive until at least one tire loses traction, at which point the other three wheels are not "driven" and the one tire just spins. In 4WD, each tire gets half the torque it would in 2WD, so it's less likely that the torque for a given acceleration is enough to break it loose. That's why 4WD pulls so much harder than 2WD in slick conditions.
So, my question is: Why do you not think this is "four wheel drive", and why do you say it "cannot actually operate with all 4 wheels powered"? Please put some kind of reasoning behind this. I'm really baffled.
If the center differential is locked, then it will lose "drive" only if at least one wheel ON EACH AXLE loses traction. That is less likely than losing traction on any one wheel, so it can pull harder. That's why it's there, and it works.
I personally have a different opinion as the the "debilitating" effects of VSC. Your mileage may differ -- opinions are like that. I find that VSC makes it VERY difficult to spin out, which I think is a very good thing. It is one of the reasons I bought the vehicle before moving to the mountains.
Now, as to "traction control", yup, it is "debilitating". If I could turn it off and leave VSC on, I would do so in a microsecond.
I should have said trac control, not VSC, apologies. I find not being able to turn off the trac control and having my truck shut down while accelerating on a turn debilitating. Maybe that's just me. VSC is fine, although I'd like to shut that and the ABS off too at times.
Simple question, can you force all 4 of your wheels to be powered on your stock Sequoia? For me the answer is 'no.'
If you have open differentials, and are in a slippery condition like snow, thick mud etc., you can quite easily get this thing stuck when the drive wheels in the front and back slip. The open differential does not move drive the non-slipping wheel. I think that's the nature of an open differential, yes? If I'm wrong, educate me.
Many people call the non-locking 4wd "mode" on the Sequoia AWD mode. My salesman did, which made me think "ah, so this has LSDs front and back." I was wrong. Very foolish of me to ever trust a salesman. If your Sequoia DOES have an AWD mode that is truly AWD, I'm at a loss because mine doesn't.
If your truck does have diffs that transfer drive to the non-slipping wheel, great, but mine doesn't, and I have indeed gotten stuck in 4wd with center lock on, noticing that half my wheels won't spin.
It's semantics to argue if that's called 4wd or not, but I do notice that half my wheels aren't being powered at that point, and I can't make them become powered under any circumstance. (2 wheels are being driven - ergo a claim that at this point, it's a 2wd - feel free to ignore that label)
This is why I'm getting lockers front and back!! Yee haw!
Can you recommend any?
Last edited by m0000; 01-23-2005 at 06:56 PM.
Reason: said VSC when i meant trac again. argh.
What is your driving condition like in the snow?
). Most of the big (unreliable) 3 have rear LSD either std or as an option. I don't know about lsd on the front as I think would DEFINITELY make for some steering issues as it tried to lock around turns (and parking). Off road, rock climbing etc. sure big benefit but not on road. I don't think most of the unreliable 3 have LSD on the fronts either.
Linear Mode
