My 2000 Tacoma just went in yesterday and failed. I already knew it would by the holes in the frame. It really makes me sick that I had to turn it in. I cannot buy another older generation truck now due to the rust issue. I live in NE Ohio and salt is used quite liberally so I believe all trucks up to the 2004 will be affected sooner or later.
What is really interesting is after a few years people in the North and East won't see any of these truck on the road! Like they never existed! I would be scared buying a southern truck and it rotting away in a few years like the rest. What will be interesting is what happens to the value of the existing trucks. If anyone really knew about them they would probably never buy one. I smell a recall at some point.
That pic above is really scary lifting it up on a 4 point frame lift!
This complaint is in regards to a defective frame on my 2001 Toyota Tacoma pick-up that was purchased used in February of 2007 with 102,000 miles. A NYS inspection was performed upon purchase. The truck now has 130k. September 6th, 2008, while installing new struts at a local tire and brake shop, the tech noticed serious frame rot on the back passenger side of my truck. The shop manager informed me of a voluntary Toyota buy-back for 1999-2000 models, Warranty Policy Bulletin POL08-03, dated 3/7/08. I contacted Toyota and had the truck immediately inspected by Lia Toyota Service of Colonie NY. I was informed the frame was seriously rotted, and the truck no longer safe to drive.
I was told the following to rectify the situation:
1. 2001 models are not "usually covered" in the buy-back
2. If covered, I would not get a loaner car
3. If covered, I would not receive the 150% value as is standard for 1995-2000 models. I don't know if Toyota will pay me 100% of the value of my truck for March of 2008 or August of 2008. The blue book value of my truck has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY since the recall was issued.
4. The dealership could not 'go to bat for me' to assist me with dealing with Toyota for a buy-back request;
5. I had to call 1-800-Go-Toyota for more information
This is a SLAP IN THE FACE. Why should the 2001 models be excluded from the extended warrantee and buy-back coverage afforded by the 1995-2000 models? My truck is NEWER - yet it has THE SAME FRAME ROT. The fact that the dealer refused to assist me with this process is additionally infuriating. I called 1-800-GO-Toyota as suggested on September 6th. After 4 days of telling me "We will assign you a case manager," Toyota finally did so on September 11. I now have a case number, and a human being with which to work with (albeit there was been little progress and likely little will be made for at least 30 days.
When I called I was told my case had been sent to Toyota's regional office - where a local tech would contact me to examine my truck either in person or via photos. Mr. Lopez told me that the process would take no less than 30 days.
I reminded Toyota that unlike those customers with 1995-2000 model year owners, the dealership was not working on my behalf. I asked for my case to be expedited and explained that I was not able to get a complimentary loaner car as 1995-2000 model year owners were provided with.My case manager apologized again "There is nothing we can do" he told me.
I am outraged - Not only did Toyota not inform me of my potential frame problem in March (here I was driving around on in a highly unsafe vehicle), they've acknowledged the problem in only a portion of the vehicles - 2001 and later model year owners have been left out in the cold. I no longer an able to drive my vehicle, I must pay for a rental car on my own, and I am not going to be fully reimbursed for the loss of my truck due to a manufacturer's defect that has already been acknowledged.
What will happen to drivers when the frames of 2001 and newer Toyota Tacomas star to fail? A broken frame could result in a serious accident as the frame is the most integral component holding the vehicle together. 2001 and later year Toyota Tacoma owners were never sent notice of the manufacturer’s defect causing frame failures – therefore most of these owners are driving around with potentially dangerous vehicles. If an owner of a 2001 or newer Tacoma were to sell a truck with a rusted frame, then the frame failed, would the previous owner be liable for not informing the new owner of the defect?
Defective frames are not exclusive to the 1995-2000 model year Tacomas - so why is Toyota excluding newer models? This is dangerous, perhaps even criminally negligent. Toyota should be recalling Tacoma trucks manufactured after 2000 that are experiencing massive frame rust - without doing so the company is endangering the lives of Tacoma owners. I would like Toyota to be more accountable and issue a complete recall (not just a buy-back) for these dangerous trucks. I would also like all owners of Toyota Tacomas (series 1995-2004) to be dealt with in the same manner.
I contacted my local paper, the National Highway Safety and Transportation Administration, the New York Attornery General's Office, the NYS Consumer Proection Board, and have begin writing to sellers of 1995-2004 Tacoma's listed on Craiglist. Next Up - letters to ebay, AutoTrader, Cars.com, and my insrance company!!!
I was looking for parts for my '99 and came across a local wrecking yard that is having about 70 trucks come in soon from Toyota to sell parts off however they cannot sell any frames. headleyj ,If you look around at your local wrecking yards you may find one that has purchased some of the failed trucks, I don't think they would just crush them when they could make some money back from them. My truck goes in tomorrow morning but it's from the Boston area and the frame looks good. Hope it passes as I want to fix it up a bit and drive it for a few years. Tim
Since my wife runs a business and the truck is fully depreciated, I would think that any money received from the sale of the truck would be considered as taxable income. That being the case we lose about a third of that to taxes. So the 1.5 x KBB becomes 1 x KBB right off the bat.
Then there are a number of other expenses that you incur that you would not have if you had been able to keep your original truck:
1. Sales tax - I don't know how it works in your state, but here in Maine you normally pay sales tax on the difference between the purchase price and that of the trade-in. Since you sold your truck to Toyota, you don't have a trade-in, so you have to pay the sales tax on the full purchase price of the new truck.
2. Excise Tax - we pay excise tax when we register. It is based on the value and age of the vehicle. Normally we would have kept our truck for 4 or more years, so we are paying a lot of excise tax that we would not have had to pay if our Taco had not rotted out.
3. Insurance - again, the insurance costs are much higher on a new vehicle than on an older one.
So all in all, the 1.5 x KBB isn't looking all that good - but then again, it's better than nothing. OTOH, I have to wonder what the deal would have been if this had been a recall rather than a buyback.
The one other thing that is a bit disconcerting is that the local dealer wants us to drop off the old truck with nothing in writing stating that they have received the truck or any in writing stating that you will ever get anything for it.
FYI:
My dad has an '01 Tacoma with 65,000 miles on it. He got a letter a couple weeks ago from the local dealership saying they NEEDED '01 Taco's on their lot, so they'd give him a great deal if he would trade it in. So, we took it in there today for them to run some numbers. They told us about the '95-00 models being bought up due to the frame issues, and also told us they needed to check the frame because that issue is going to extend to '04 models in the coming months. His has been in PA since it was purchased new. Needless to say, it failed their inspection. So, they said they couldn't take it on a trade right now even if my Dad was ready to buy today. They said if the dealership purchased it on a trade right now, Toyota wouldn't repair or buy it back from them. They said to hold off and they'd let us know what to do. The salesman called us later and said initial word is, for the newer models, Toyota is going to REPLACE all the frames. Are you kidding me? He said the first buy-back affected 800,000 Taco's. So, I'm sure it would be more from '01-04. Seriously...they're going to replace the frames on over a million Taco's? Get real. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that's the initial word we got. But, if they do the buy-back instead, my dad will probably get $18,000 for his truck to put toward an '09 Taco.
Granted I am THE ultra newb... with this my first post, but have been following along now for some time.
I see Amocat00 has some encouraging news for those who own post 2000 models. I'm hoping he posts again.
My 2001 Xtra Cab 4x4 with just over 50K on the odometer is scheduled for the hammer swing test on Monday, (01/05/2009), right here in ever so salty Central PA.
I suspect it could go either way, yet have little faith in the outcome knowing now how other 2001 + owners have been greeted. I expect problems and feel somewhat limited to address them.
I like many have serviced their beloved Taco with more often than required oil and filter changes using nothing but the best lubricants. Having been raised to purchase all that is mine inspires such habits.
I must admit that I value my little truck over any other vehicle I've owned in 24 years of licensed driving. Likewise, I paid a premium price, $16,000 dollars as owner #2... knowing it was well cared for with just 31,000 on the clock. It was my intent to drive it for many more years to come.
So we all know the rust issue and how the pre 2001 model owners were cared for. Definitively, where are we, the 2001 up owners in the big picture? I see an interesting post here from daleyplanit in September, linking to what appears to be a press release concerning my question... 2001 to 2004 owners soon to be receiving consideration in the "15 year" extended rust coverage plan.
Can anyone confirm the details? I suspect there are more owners like me that would be very thankful to hear from those in the know. Daley? Amo? [your name here]?
Last edited by TacoBow; 12-30-2008 at 10:40 PM.
Reason: Sometimes huked on foniks don't wurk fur me.
This was posted on CarSpace (edmunds.com) on 12/19:
Quote:
Owners of 2001 – 2004 Tacomas have begun to receive letters informing them of a Customer Support Program for frame perforation caused by rust. This warranty extension will be offered for a period of 15 years, five times the original coverage, with no mileage limitation from the vehicle's in-service date, for this specific condition; some conditions apply and these are explained in the Owner Letters.
I can assure you we have gone to great lengths to fortify the integrity of this extraordinary program. Here are some details of the program and what we have done to prepare for this event.
Based on our experience with the 1995 – 2000 Tacoma, we were able to determine that greater than 97% of the perforated frames came from twenty specific Mid-Western and North-Eastern states where road salt use is prevalent.
Owners in the twenty states will have until October 31, 2010 to visit their local dealer for an inspection and application of a corrosion-resistant treatment process in order for the extended warranty to be applied to their vehicle. Toyota is currently preparing the dealerships in these specific twenty states to apply the corrosion-resistant treatment. Customers will receive a letter from us when dealer preparations are complete. Further details and limitations will be provided in the owner letter. Owners in the other thirty states do not need to take action for the extended warranty to be applied.
We encourage owners to wait until they receive their letters to ensure the dealer has ample time to spend with their vehicle.
If the frame is confirmed by the dealer to be perforated, it will be repaired. Obviously, this new program is different compared to the earlier model Tacoma and here’s why.
When we announced the 1995 – 2000 Tacoma program, frame repair was not an option for us or our customers. At the time, we no longer manufactured frames for many variations of these vehicles. In the case of 2001 – 2004 Tacoma, replacement frames are still in production.
To develop this new program, engineers here in Los Angeles, working with Toyota engineers from Japan, created a more comprehensive and less intrusive disassembly and reassembly process with built-in quality. In doing so, they identified all of the major and ancillary parts needed to complete the repair.
Along with a frame, dealers will receive kits that include all the necessary nuts, bolts, washers, clips, mounts, etc. Additionally, they will replace specific major components like leaf springs and lower control arms as necessary. They won’t replace mufflers, brakes and other wear items as part of the program. However, if the owner wants these parts replaced, we provide the opportunity to take advantage of labor savings.
We have allocated a generous amount time for dealers to complete the work and to address the unique challenges specific to each vehicle.
We are confident with the unprecedented steps taken with both programs to minimize the inconvenience of our customers and to protect the value of their vehicles. It is our intention to deliver on the “total ownership experience” and to maintain loyal Toyota customers.
We sincerely appreciate the feedback we receive from sites such as edmunds.com. If you have any concerns with your Tacoma or other Toyota vehicle, please call our toll-free help number at 1-800-331-4331. Thank you.
Brian R. Lyons
Safety and Quality Communications
Toyota Motor Sales USA
SooOoooO, if he knew that nearly 3 months ago, where is Toyota with keeping the owners of the 2001 + masses informed? The source link was much like the back n forth here, adding opinions on the alleged frame swap.
If what I've been reading at both sites is true, I fail to see how the 2001 up owner crowd can't feel that preferential treatment was applied to older Tacoma vehicles effected by this frame issue.
To think, 2001 + units with unsafe frames are likely to have the frames replaced? I can't imagine there not being issues of all sorts lurking in that undertaking. Fuel and brake lines that were in tact but now disturbed from the frame sway subject to leaking... after all, there is the same salt / corrosion exposure to these components as there was to the frame they are residing against. That's just the start of what can happen in the world of pitfalls that face the body off frame resurrection procedure.
Electrical woes that could surface after the fact... pinch a lead here... accidentally crimp a wire under there... c'mon. Bolts don't come out easy if at all when rust settles in. Maybe add some heat and pursued with impact tools. A lucky wrench turner wins 1/2 that come your way. Break 'em off is the norm, or strip 'em out in the captive bolt carrier during reassembly and you've lost the savings of a replacement in labor intensive common rust - made hurdles alone. Sounds like I've been there? Yeah, I have.
Ahhh, now add yet the sharpened pencil legal council who files a civil complaint for damages resulting from an accident claimed due to a rebuilt unit which they will insit could have been avoided with a buy back that never happened. Don't think for a second that Johnny 3 piece suit isn't going to pnematically hammer the point home about Mr. 150 % pay back that owned his vintage 1996 year 4th owner Taco with 200K on the clock for a whopping 3 months and is safely sporting wood 'round town in his "new" to me 2007 model.
Oh my... lions, tigers and bears... $$$$
Reward those who bought a 5th or 6th hand truck that was run through a meat grinder only to punish those who searched for a year to find just the right late model Tacoma that was both well maintained and in the soon to be owners price range? Wow! So, I keep it now that the bottom of the Tacoma market is on its way to the depths and hope the frame doesn't fail?
I'm not so sure that this lateset bit of propoganda is what the loyal Toyota owners are hoping to hear. Anyone have news newer than September 2008?
The letter from Lyons doesn't date back to September. It was posted to a Facebook page that does date back to September.
As of September, Toyota was dealing with post-2000 frame rust issues on a case-by-case basis, outside of the established 1995.5 - 2000 program. Lyons' letter is a later announcement that Toyota is initiating a formal program for the 2001 - 2004 Tacoma.
Good question ... I don't know when the letter was generated. The earliest date I can verify for its appearance online is when it showed up in the edmunds forum in December. Many other places copied the letter from there (edmunds). There are some other places where the letter appears (apparently second- or third-hand) that don't offer any clear clues as to when it was posted (e.g., the Facebook one).
Re: Rusty Tacoma Frames, and Toyota's Solution
I would be scared buying a southern truck and it rotting away in a few years like the rest. What will be interesting is what happens to the value of the existing trucks. If anyone really knew about them they would probably never buy one. I smell a recall at some point.
Tim
Re: Rusty Tacoma Frames, and Toyota's Solution
Linear Mode
