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i have watched and seen so many mechanics not use a torque wrench. on smaller items that would break or pull a part out of truness (you know what i mean). like the spark plug thread the range of torque applied seem to vary quite a bit.
please educate me.
Knowing when you must adhere to torque specs and when not too? I feel that the answer to that question comes down to the type of part being fastened, and the experience level of the mechanic. I worked many years as a mechanic and that question was one that came up on nearly every job. With time most good mechanics learn to evaluate the situation. Sometimes the torque wrench will quite simply not fit into the area it is needed under the hood. Other times the replacement parts have undergone design changes and no new torque specs provided, what to do? The answer is normaly to use your best judgement along with the original specs as a guide.I always adhered to the torque specs and used a torque wrench wherever possible, and luckily never caused any damage or had a comeback due to improperly tightened fasteners.
There are some experienced mechanics that have developed a good "feel" for torque over the years, but tests have shown that even the best mechanic tends to over tighten rather than under tighten.
I am an engineer who has worked on MANY types of industrial equipment, and all my vehicles for decades, and have 5 different torque wrenches, down to 1/4 drive Inch Pound.
I do not use them on everything by any means, but do use them on many things, such as wheel studs, and most engine/suspension/drive train items. I also use them on spark plugs that are in aluminum heads! Not so critical on cast iron heads, as I developed a pretty good feeling for that, but aluminum heads are MUCH easier to damage, so using a torque wrench is a very good idea (along with anti seize on the threads).
I refuse to let a tire shop use an impact wrench on my wheels when getting tires or rotation/balance jobs! Even if they use the "torque sticks" on them, many of the employees in shops do not know how to use them correctly, or use the wrong ones. I take my torque wrench with me, and ask them to just snug them up and I will torque them. I try to stay there and be sure some knuckle dragging tire jock does not get the word.
I have had TWO shops break wheel studs in the past.
Inconsistent torque on the wheel bolts can cause brake rotors to warp, or damage aluminum wheels so that they start developing microscopic cracks around the stud holes. Using a torque wrench set to the proper torque, and done in the proper two pass 'star' pattern can save you a lot of future grief, for just a couple minutes time. Of course there is the cost of the wrench up front, and good ones are not cheap. Even a relatively cheap "Harbor Freight" style is better than nothing because if not exactly the right torque is achieved at least they will all be CONSISTENT, almost as important as the torque value.
I have agree with the above statements. I also like the idea of bringing along my own torque wrench the next time work is done that requires the wheels coming off.
A couple weeks ago I brought my 1995 Tacoma in for a "scheduled" balance/rotation. I would normally at least rotate the tires myself. But since it was "free" I'd let the shop do it. I was also planing on selling truck and this shop ALWAYS finds stuff wrong when I bring a vehicle in. The only snag they noted was the marker lights were burnt. Must be a Toyota... 237,000 miles.
So just out of curiosity I decided to pull the wheels off and look at the brakes. At that time I only had a "plus wrench multisize". I had to jump on the wrench just to brake the torque the Mech/Ape had put on it.
Everything was fine, so I decided that I should probably use a torque wrench to put them on. So I went and spent some money. When I returned home I checked my own work. I was slightly over the range specified in repair manual, but constant all the way around. Plus I had no problem loosening the wheel nut to properly torque them. Since I now own a torque wrench I will use it. Specially after garaged service.
Second story....While doing my pre selling inspection I checked the spark plugs. The first one I checked required no effort to remove. Probably less than the proper torque. The rest were tight. Now, I may have not tightened it at all last time, or I may not have put enough torque and the plug loosened off. I am normally very thorough while doing maintenance, so it was probably a case of under torque. Anyways I now torque everything I can.
Thats just my thoughts on torque. Torque feels different with every different length of wrench.
I say it depends on what you're torqueing/not torqueing. Not a big deal to half-turn a skid plate bolt; but could be a very big deal to not torque, for example, your more delicate engine components.
But if you have a good torque wrench, why not just do it. Just make sure the wrench is correctly calibrated (I once almost overtorqued my spark plugs not double checking the calibration.)
I grew up on iron-headded Detroit muscle. Heck, I over tightened everything. I cracked a perfectly good Honda block by over tightening a bolt. I now have 2 Snap-On 3/8 drive and 3 1/2 drive torque wrenches. I especially agree with the comment regarding spark plugs and aluminum heads. 13 foot pounds aint much.
This is the reason i come here. "the brain repository" you guys had the questions and answer that i was looking for and confirming my a own thoughts. looks like i am headed out to purchase a torque wrench 1/2 drive.
so which brands should i look for that have the quality that is needed with out having to pay too much for the name. how about looking at a pawn shop?
here is where i was going with my original question.
dshealey mentioned over torque could warp brake rotors.
i had the transmission replaced and the fly wheel was air wrenched on. could the over torque have the same effect on the fly wheel?
random thought could the over torque be the cause for the brake pulse issues i read about here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
thanx
bd
I've been wrenching on stuff for almost 20 years. For some things I use a torque wrench, like head bolts and stuff. Wheel lugs, and non-essential parts I can feel it pretty decent enough.
Brake judder may not necessarily be from overtorquing...read through the literature on the Stoptech website. They make the "Big Brake Kit" for the 1st-gen Tundras, and have a wealth of technical whitepapers, including one regarding "warped rotors". There are a few different causes for that awkward symptom.
I have only ever seen one warped rotor in the four sets of rotors which have been on my truck (OEM front, aftermarket front, one warped in first rear pair, new rear pair). It was likely a factory casting or machining defect...the second set in the rear was slightly out of true as well, but they were machined true before they were ever on the truck.
Anyhoo...I always use a torque wrench, like Rich said for everything except the skid plate bolts.
If you don't have a torque spec, see if you can locate a specification for the weakest threaded metal.
What that means is, if you're running a Grade 8 bolt (or 10.something, if metric...10.8 or 10.9, I forget) in to an aluminum head, use the torque spec for that thread diameter and pitch for aluminum. Same goes for replacement bolts in critical locations...you can get Bowmalloy bolts for your bumpers and receiver, but you'll still be torque-limited by the softer side of the fastener.
Now, if you have replaced the nut as well as the bolt (as some of us have done with skid plates and bumpers), then look up the torque spec for that size, pitch and grade, and use at least the minimum specification.
You may find in some cases where you've made a significant upgrade that it's just not reasonable for you to put finish torque on the fastener...some of those fasteners can take over 200ft-lb torque. When in that situation, I set the wrench to what I can reasonably achieve with a 2.5' 1/2" drive torque wrench and a 3' breaker bar.
Sometimes it's awfully difficult to reach a fastener, like Kovawa mentioned. Extensions and even u-joints won't change the torque, but just like your driveshaft carrier bearing, the joint and/or extension must be supported or you'll lose torque as the extension or joint flexes over. It's almost impossible on large fasteners, but works great on spark plugs...particularly the ones at the back of the engine, if you have ABS.
Also keep in mind a "crow's foot" wrench will change the amount of torque you're applying. The wrench will break at the same torque, but that torque will not be reflected at the fastener if the business end of your tool is offset from the head of the wrench. There's usually a different specification for a crow's foot, for example with the fuel line connector at the rear of the block...or is it the pulse damper? Whichever. If you're swapping your starter you'll find it . There's a direct torque, and an SST (Special Service Tool) torque, the SST is basically a crow's foot on a torque wrench.
...so which brands should i look for that have the quality that is needed with out having to pay too much for the name...
For the driveway mechanic who doesn't want to blow his budget on a tool that is only used a few times a year, I see nothing wrong with a beam type Craftsman. Less than $30.
(Here comes the beating!)
__________________
Friend's dog puked into console.
Something scratched the bejesus out of bed floor.
Lots of bugs on grill.
$6 switch to keep those d@&# cargo lights off!
I'll wash it next week.
For the driveway mechanic who doesn't want to blow his budget on a tool that is only used a few times a year, I see nothing wrong with a beam type Craftsman. Less than $30.
(Here comes the beating!)
LOL...those work great. I got my clicker-style wrenches for about 30-40$ each.
All the really small ones I've seen are beams. Anybody have any idea why?
LOL...those work great. I got my clicker-style wrenches for about 30-40$ each.
All the really small ones I've seen are beams. Anybody have any idea why?
Total guess. But I'm thinking maybe the parts involved in making a non-beam type make it difficult to make. The smaller the wrench, the more complex the mechanics, and thus the more costly, I imagine.
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Also keep in mind a "crow's foot" wrench will change the amount of torque you're applying. The wrench will break at the same torque, but that torque will not be reflected at the fastener if the business end of your tool is offset from the head of the wrench. There's usually a different specification for a crow's foot, for example with the fuel line connector at the rear of the block...or is it the pulse damper? Whichever. If you're swapping your starter you'll find it . There's a direct torque, and an SST (Special Service Tool) torque, the SST is basically a crow's foot on a torque wrench.
-Sean
A crow's foot will put higher torque on the fastener being tightened than the torque wrench reads, IF the crow's foot is straight in line with the wrench pointing away from the handle, less if in line and under the wrench pointing toward the handle. If you put the crow's foot on so that it is pointing at a right angle to the sided of the wrench, then the torque indicated is very close to that applied to the fastener, the error so small as to be negligable.
ok how important is it? to use torque wrench
. There's a direct torque, and an SST (Special Service Tool) torque, the SST is basically a crow's foot on a torque wrench.
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