Tundra Ranked

[Brian M]

Originally Posted by molex

Amen, brotha! I just read the Four Wheeler (I think) comparo of the Tundra, F-150 and Titan, and one of the "cons" of the Tundra was low power. Huh? Since when was 245 not enough? Why would you expect more out of a 1/2 ton rig? Why would you need more?

During my callow youth, my father was good enough to school me repeatedly on just how much cr@p you can haul and tow in a seriously underpowered 4 cylinder truck. He never owned a V8 truck, and he worked his trucks, I mean HARD. My Tundra has more power than anything my Dad ever owned.

I would guess than 99% or more of truck owners never actually use the full power of their truck. I know I've only done it twice.

Funny thing. Growing up we pulled a small travel trailer, carried a jon boat on the camper and had the long bed full with mini-bikes in/on our '67 Chevy Pickup most every weekend. It had a 250cid Inline 6 and three on the tree with factory air. Never a problem with that truck...as a matter of fact, in later years in became my HS transportation and I drove it until the body completely rusted off of it (literally).

I do not know what the HP was on that truck but I know it was a far cry less than my Sequoia has now.

Secondly I remember friends having the ultimate tow and travelmobile while I was in high school. It was an '83 Suburban with a 305 V-8. 120hp. They towed a 24ft travel trailer with it. They later bought a same model year with the 6.2L diesel...same HP I think.

It's all in what you are used to I guess.

[killdozer]

I liked the Titan BUT dealers are offering no discounts and...

1. I got a sweet deal on a 03 Tundra Limited
2. The hp difference can and will be made up by adding the supercharger with the final cost coming in $6500 less than the cost of the LE Titan (not to mention ~50 more hp )

The Ford was well....A Ford. (I have an Excursion already)
The Chevy was uninspired
The Dodge was unpleasent

[Yitbos]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...11-drive_x.htm

[Agent WD-40]

I think that article pertty much hit the nail on the head. Imagine how much better Toyota could sell vehicles if they could include what they got with what the other got. Toyota seem to have the hard part down, now they just need to up the anty.

[DCTUNDRA]

Originally Posted by Agent WD-40

I think that article pertty much hit the nail on the head.

Ultimately it is what you feel that determines what you buy. You can do all the number crunching and review analysis in the world, but if a truck works for you - or doesn't, then that will determine the choice. I have bought many Fords and desperately wanted the new 2004 F-150 Lariat to be my "ultimate" truck (I have never been unhappy with my 1999 Lariat). Sadly, neither my wife nor I really cared for the new design. We were still very happy with the previous generation and tried to buy a 2003 Lariat SuperCrew. Alas, the dealer thought they were worth much more than I did and supply here in Ohio was almost non-existent (BTW San Antonio has about a hundred last time I looked). Given the option of paying too much for a year old "new" truck that is also a generation old, and paying $2,600 more for a brand new 2004 Double Cab Limited with loads of extras, I went with the Toyota.

There is a delicate balance that defies number crunching analysis that Toyota has found. I REALLY like this truck, and it suits my needs to a "T". It is obvious from the USA Today reviewer that this is the truck of choice for most of their staff as well. Like he pointed out, there may be some numerical shortcomings, but they just don't seem to manifest themselves in the real world of driving. Like he said "...how do they do that?"

[TundraSoul]

Everyone should check out the home page, Toyota news is automatically posted there.

Originally Posted by Yitbos

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...11-drive_x.htm

[Hover]

Originally Posted by TundraSoul

Everyone should check out the home page, Toyota news is automatically posted there.

For you lazy people out there, here's a direct link:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com

[jcramair1]

In my own opinion I really don't care to much for the DC. I personally think the truck looks way to big for my tastes and I strongly feel that in order for that truck to be a big hit on the market it needs more power and also the price needs to be trimmed down a bit.

[TundraDome]

Originally Posted by TundraSoul

Everyone should check out the home page, Toyota news is automatically posted there.

And I noticed that after the author dissed the DC, he ends with:

"Yet, yet ... in a driveway overflowing with expensive, alluring test vehicles, including one of the above, the filled-with-flaws Tundra DC got used the most. It was so easygoing and smooth and agreeable, so agile-feeling in spite of its length and its intimidating turning circle, so much like those favorite weekend jeans, that driving anything else seemed a chore."

Even though I now have my Phantom DC, I have, along with others, criticized it for where it is seriously lacking, primarily the lack of power and towing capability (although, I am impressed (the gearing I guess) how the same engine really moves my DC when I call upon it to do so). But as someone said above, after all the number crunching and stats comparison, it comes down to what you need and what you want to be associated with . . . yea, I think brand name does matter . . . and I find it interesting that with all the trucks with more power, more this and more that, the staff was attracted to the Tundra. It just has soul. (but lets get those improvements ASAP )

-- TundraDome

[Xfercase]

Originally Posted by dblcabtim

From my perspective, this always begs the question, How much power does one really need? Let's face it, most people that drive trucks don't use them as such. I, in fact do, as I own a construction business and am perfectly happy with the power for 90% of what I do. The other 10% I rely on my F350. But if I had to drive the 350 everyday I would be worn out. Remember, bigger is not always better.

I certainly hope that all this investment that Nissan has made in this new truck will be passed on to the consumer as a benefit in the resale market. I have been extremely successful selling Toyotas (near bidding wars almost), somewhat successful in selling my Fords and Chevys, but man did I lose my *%&# on that Nissan truck that I owned. I couldn't give it away.

Have any of the Titan converts attempted to carry anything in that 5 foot box yet?

Tim, I know where you're comming from since I'm a contractor myself. Toyotas are great for doing the small to medium size jobs and traveling long distances in comfort. However, there are a number of tasks that require a much larger rig. I think a access cab Tundra and F-250 long bed make a good pair to get the job done.

[surfwagon56]

I too have a Lexus GS400 and now a D-Cab. Leave the horsepower wars to cars that can handle and brake safely. Too many people in our area have tricked out Subs, Tahoes, Slades, etc. and drive WAY too fast for the stopping and handling characteristics of their big trucks. Being a science teacher, I cringe at the yuppies who don't understand the physics of inertia and hope that some punk in his dad's sub doesn't run up behind me when the traffic slows suddenly on the 405 freeway. Drive a truck like a truck, drive a car like a car.

Now that I've soap boxed, I think I'll go do some research on a TRD supercharger for my new truck...

[jeddclampette]

I have a light manufacturing business in which a heavy job would consist of hauling my finished products to/from the painters. They range from 1-2k # per load, and in the past, I was able to accomplish this quite competently with a compact 2 door car towing a light single axle trailer, if you can believe that.

What I found most accomodating is the trailer's multipurpose and user friendly low to the ground flatbed. Forklifting pallettes onto a trailer is easy -it can be dropped in from the side of the trailer as well as from the rear. I also transport 12' long angle iron, flat bars, and rounds to/from metals suppliers, which is so easy with a trailer. Bulky items such as a refrigerator was easily dollied right onto my trailer by myself and so i find this so much easier to transport and dolly off into the kitchen than if it was put on the bed of a truck.

So I just want to say that a truck coupled w/ a trailer has served up more work than I have ever imagined possible. My trailer has paid off within the first three months of ownership and since then has continued to save me immensely in terms of time and ease of use.

Originally Posted by Xfercase

Tim, I know where you're comming from since I'm a contractor myself. Toyotas are great for doing the small to medium size jobs and traveling long distances in comfort. However, there are a number of tasks that require a much larger rig. I think a access cab Tundra and F-250 long bed make a good pair to get the job done.

[peid]

I heard on the radio this morning that Toyota took over the #2 auto maker spot from Ford.

I thought about 3 months ago they took over #3 from Daimler Chrysler and they (Toyota) felt it was only temporary.

Now they are #2?

Wards has this article about Ford, which mentions Toyota taking over #2 in 2003 but I can't really find anything concrete.

http://wardsauto.com/ar/transportati...rd_4/index.htm

Originally Posted by Wards Auto

"Ford, which may have been passed by Toyota Motor Corp. <7203.T> as the world's second-largest automaker in 2003, said full-year revenues increased about 1 percent to $164.2 billion, even as vehicle sales fell about 4 percent to 6.7 million."

Go Yota!

[Supra]

Originally Posted by peid

I heard on the radio this morning that Toyota took over the #2 auto maker spot from Ford.

I thought about 3 months ago they took over #3 from Daimler Chrysler and they (Toyota) felt it was only temporary.

Now they are #2?

Wards has this article about Ford, which mentions Toyota taking over #2 in 2003 but I can't really find anything concrete.

http://wardsauto.com/ar/transportati...rd_4/index.htm



Go Yota!

Toyota has been the world's 3rd largest automaker for a very long time (~15 years at leat). What you are thinking of is the fact that in August of 2003 Toyota/Lexus/Scion outsold the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands (Mercedes Benz not included) for the first time ever and since (so far) in the US.

Ford the 1st 6 months of Toyota's fiscal year (April to September 03), Toyota (and it's brands) outsold Ford in the entire world by some 43,000 units to become the world's 2nd biggest automaker. The numbers for the entire year (2003) are up in the air but it looks like Toyota outsold Ford for the entire year. Most analysts expect Toyota to stay ahead of Ford from now on.... Ford sold 6.72 million units in 2003, down from 6.97 million in 2002 http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...utos-43092.htm

Toyota expects to sell 7.08 in 2004 and they say this is a 4% increase which means they must have sold about 6.80 million units in 2003. Here's an article about this (sorry don't have the link):

"NAGOYA, Japan -- Toyota Motor Corp., which may surpass Ford Motor Co. in global car sales this year, said worldwide sales for the group will probably rise 4 percent in 2004 as it releases new models and demand picks up in the U.S. and Japan.
Group sales, including affiliates Daihatsu Motor Co. and Hino Motors Ltd., will probably total 7.08 million vehicles next year, President Fujio Cho said at an annual press briefing. Sales for Toyota alone will probably gain 4 percent to 6.33 million units.
Japan’s biggest automaker, which last month predicted it will probably post another year of record profits this business year, is trying to show investors that a broader spread of products and markets will leave it less exposed than its rivals to a slowdown in global auto sales and currency fluctuations. New model releases will help it reach its sales targets, investors said.
“Toyota just continues to expand its lineup in all major markets and is well-balanced” across different markets, said Masayuki Kubota, who helps manage the equivalent of $8.5 billion including auto shares at Daiwa SB Investments Ltd. in Tokyo.
Japan’s biggest automaker is set to revamp its best-selling Crown sedan next week, and may enter the full-size pickup truck market, competing with Ford’s F-150 and Nissan Motor Co.’s Titan.
The group sees 2004 global production rising 7 percent to 7.28 million units, while output for Toyota alone will probably gain 7 percent to 6.51 million.
Overseas Expansion
Toyota expects sales abroad to increase 5 percent to 4.57 million units in 2004, while production outside Japan will rise 15 percent to 2.97 million, the company said.
The automaker is adding two more plants in North America, one in Texas and one in Mexico. It is also getting ready to produce compact cars with PSA Peugeot Citroen in 2005 in the Czech Republic and a sedan in China with Guangzhou Automobile Group Co.
Toyota president Fujio Cho said he expects talks on the Guangzhou sedan plant may extend until spring in China next year.
The maker of Prius hybrid sedans expects Japan sales to increase 2 percent to 1.76 million units in 2004, while production will probably rise 1 percent to 3.54 million. Group output will gain 1 percent to 4.27 million vehicles in domestic plants.
Group-wide exports from Japan will probably remain flat at 1.94 million units next year, Toyota said. Exports for Toyota alone are likely to fall 1 percent to 1.82 million units.
Japan Demand
Car sales in Japan have fallen by about 25 percent since their peak in 1990. Domestic sales of all types of vehicles will rise to 5.9 million units next year from 5.85 million in 2003, the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association said in a statement. Passenger car sales will probably rise 2.7 percent to 4.61 million.
Toyota said it expects total 2004 industrywide sales in Japan, excluding minicars, to be at 4.1 million, up from between 4.04 million and 4.05 million units this year.
“An economic recovery in Japan is continuing,” said Toyota’s Cho, citing improving indicators. The Bank of Japan’s Tankan index of business confidence last week showed that optimism among large manufacturers rose to its highest in 6 1/2 years.
As Toyota has more than 40 percent of its home market, the company’s sales tend to match the trend of the overall market, analysts including Koji Endo at Credit Suisse First Boston Japan Inc. have said. The company aims to have 43 percent of the auto market in Japan next year.
Toyota raised its sales forecast for the Prius next year by 71 percent to 130,000 units on rising consumer demand for hybrids, which pair a gasoline engine and electric motors, the company said. The automaker plans to sell 70,000 Prius cars at home and the rest abroad.
U.S., Europe Demand
Toyota, which has sold more than 1 million units in the April-September period for the first time in the U.S., expects the U.S. auto market to total 16.6 million units this year. Next year, sales will be between 16.6 million and 17 million units.
The company has said its sales in North America will probably reach 2 million units in 2004, a figure it will also reach this year. The North America market generates about 80 percent of Toyota’s operating profit, analysts said.
General Motors Corp. and other U.S. automakers have been offering higher incentives to offset market share gains from Asian automakers. The level of incentives may fall next year, said Toyota Executive Vice President Yoshio Ishizaka.
While Japanese automakers have increased share in the U.S. this year, export earnings have been eroded by the yen’s gain against the U.S. dollar this year.
The dollar traded at 107.57 yen at 6:51 p.m. in Tokyo. That compares with its high this year of 121.69 yen on March 21.
The yen’s level remains “a concern,” Toyota’s Cho said.
In Europe, where Toyota leads gains for Japanese automakers. The maker of Yaris and Vitz compacts said earlier this week that it plans to sell 830,000 units in 2003, exceeding its earlier target of 800,000 units and marking the seventh straight year of gains in the market. The company expects its 2004 car sales in Europe will rise by 10 percent to 850,000 units.
Toyota expects industrywide European auto sales in 2004 to total 16 million units. It did not disclose an estimate for this year.
The automaker also said it doesn’t plan to open a plant in Russia for now."

Toyota did downplay outselling Chrysler in the US in August and outselling Ford because they are afraid of anti-import backslash.......

[Supra]

Here's official info:

http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=43324&dm=yes

Toyota Motor on Friday said the most recent sales data show that it came second in global vehicle sales in 2003, climbing past Ford for the first time, Dow Jones reported.
Toyota reportedly said its vehicle sales by registration in 2003 are estimated at 6.78 million vehicles, up 9.9%, while Ford said Thursday its sales for the year slipped 3.6% to 6.72 million vehicles.
Those numbers demonstrate the increasing competitiveness of Toyota and other Japanese automakers against the Big Three automakers in the US market, the report noted.
According to Dow Jones, even global sales leader General Motors, whose sales exceeded eight million vehicles in 2003, lost its some of its share of the US market, declining to 28.0% from 28.3%.
"We're not aiming for any specific sales ranking," a Toyota spokesman told the news agency, adding the US Big Three are still larger than Toyota if their group sales include those of affiliates.
Sales figures of Toyota and Ford include vehicles sold by the parent company and subsidiaries. Sales by group companies in which the parent holds less than 50% are not counted, the spokesman reportedly said.
Sales by Mazda, 33.4%-owned by Ford, are not included in Ford's sales results, Dow Jones noted.
"If you look at the Ford group in a broader sense, including Mazda's numbers can easily push up its sales" by one million units, the Toyota official told the news agency.
Toyota reportedly said it is often difficult to make direct comparisons of sales figures of Japanese and US manufacturers because Japanese companies define sales as the number of vehicles sold by dealers and registered by retail customers, while the US sales data are on a wholesale basis.
The difference between the wholesale and registration numbers depends on various factors at each company, Toyota said, according to Dow Jones.