Bad Transmissions.. A clue, and Im pi**ed!!!

[green man]

Ive been following all the posts on the bad transmissions and it seems the cause of most of them is old/dirty fliud. So I called my dealer so they could do a flush as I now have 60,000 mi. on the truck which I got new from this dealer in '01. I wasnt too worried about it because I had the 30,000 mi. complete service done and the fluid was replaced then. So im talking with the gal from service about getting a flush and she tells me that they dont flush the tranny, only drain and fill! I asked if they drop the pan and clean the filter and she said..No there's a drain plug!! After I got off the phone I looked at the recept of my 30,000 service and they only put in 5 quarts of ATF. No flush!! If this is all thats being done a the dealerships its a small wonder that the Trannys are failing. This is the same dealership that told me my O2 sensors would cost $310 apice and were not covered under extended warrentee when they were. It love this truck but this dealership service is getting to me...Without Tundra Solutions Id be at the mercy of these guys.

[CJM_T100]

I would try another dealer man.

As for flushing it, yea sounds like it hasnt been done right. If the fluid smells burnt, looks brown or black and such DO NOT FLUSH IT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Whatever is holding it together will be gone if you flush, your trans is toast anyways if it has those symptoms. Only a matter of time really.

Wanna flush it yourself, check this out: Transmission Flushing

All you have to do to flush your own is to find the inlet and outlet lines (usually off the trans cooler) and put the inlet line into a new bucket of ATF and the old line into an empty bucket. Then you can crank the engine over and let the tranny do the work for ya. Still gotta pull the pan before hand and change the filter if any. I would suggest you do this slowly and check the new bucket often. I monitored mine when I did it to another car and a few times I had to stop and just add fluid into the dipstick tube b/c the inlet was pumping slower than the outlet.

[duffyatkinson]

Originally Posted by CJM_T100

...If the fluid smells burnt, looks brown or black and such DO NOT FLUSH IT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Whatever is holding it together will be gone if you flush, your trans is toast anyways if it has those symptoms. Only a matter of time really...

I hear this assertion thrown all over the internet -- and in dealer service bays.

It is BUNK.

There is no way that "burnt, brown or black" ATF is "holding it together" and removing this material and replacing with new fluid will cause this "holding it together" function to be lost. Chances are, the lack of proper service caused the fluid to be in this condition to begin with. To argue that letting this worn out, marginalized fluid remain because "...your trans is toast anyways..." is an off-the-cuff, poorly conceived recommendation that does the OP a huge disservice.

To the OP: Trust your instincts and find a new dealer and/or independent service advisor who knows what the hell they are talking about.

[Shootist]

New tranny fluid has lots of detergent and solvent in it and it can finish off a weak tranny. Unfortunately some dealerships
are tuned in to what they call a "lay down" when he walks through the door. They are no more honest or dishonest than any
other mechanic shop. They do however have all the right equipment and the best knowledge base available, (next to you guys).

[CJM_T100]

Originally Posted by duffyatkinson

I hear this assertion thrown all over the internet -- and in dealer service bays.

It is BUNK.

There is no way that "burnt, brown or black" ATF is "holding it together" and removing this material and replacing with new fluid will cause this "holding it together" function to be lost. Chances are, the lack of proper service caused the fluid to be in this condition to begin with. To argue that letting this worn out, marginalized fluid remain because "...your trans is toast anyways..." is an off-the-cuff, poorly conceived recommendation that does the OP a huge disservice.

To the OP: Trust your instincts and find a new dealer and/or independent service advisor who knows what the hell they are talking about.

Dude, i flushed more than a few bad trannys and guess what happens-they FAIL! Got a good one for ya, friend of mines mother in laws minivan was shifting poorly, fluid was black and smelled burnt and despite my warnings she had it flushed by a good local garage who even advised her not too and guess what, she now has a jasper trans in it! The burnt smell you have or black gook that was your trans is pcs of metal and plastic inside the trans that are literally wearing out and burning up. If there is damage inside the transmission due to lack of fluid changes then the damage is already done and adding new slick fluid will only make matters worse.

You can believe whatever you want, but real world experiences as a mechanic for 20 years mean I know wtf im talking about.

Oh OP, heres the link about flushing: http://home.centurytel.net/stevenjac...sh/tranny.html

[green man]

Im going to add some Auto RX, run her for about 600 miles and then take it to a tranny shop for the pan-drop, filter change and flush. I dont have any proplems yet. Hopeing to avoid them..Also find a new dealer,,Too bad this is the one nearest my place.

[ctateusa]

Well as far as transmissions go. We service them every 15-30k on honda's(Honda only recommeds at like 100k on the new ones, but then they just want to sell more new cars) A honda doesnt have a pan to drop or a filter to change without disassembling the cases. We drain and refill 3qts-3 1/2 qts every time. and we have a lot of cars that are at 300k+ on the original transmissions. That can be a perfectly safe way to change the fluid as long as it is done when needed. On a tundra though yhea I would probably drain and fill it every 30k and change the filter every 60k. But that didnt stop my tundra's transmission from failing either. I truely believe it is a design flaw as to why they are failing. Seems like almost all of them are from the overdrive planetaries going out.

[CJM_T100]

Just as a comparison here:

I have a 96 T100 and the previous owner gave me all receipts-he changed the tranny fluid every 15k, I flushed it every 20k (2 flushes, total refill) The truck now has 200k on it, the trans shifts better than my friends 96 4Runner thats been flushed a few times as well and many other cars.

The key to tranny longevity is to keep the dang thing flushed FAR more than the book says to. It says 30k or every 2 years do it at 20k and once a year. You change your engine oils every 3-5k or so, so why wouldnt you change the trans fluid in a like manner? No vehicle I ever owned had the tranny fail except a camry which was already toast. i figured at 220k I had nothing to lose (engine was burning 2 qts a week anyways), so I flushed and added in some lucas stop slip, tranny was better but still had problems with slipping in 2nd gear. That car I bought for cheap and didnt care, amazingly with the slipping trans I drove another 50k I attribute that to the lucas additive.

[Mr. Creosote]

Originally Posted by CJM_T100

Dude, i flushed more than a few bad trannys and guess what happens-they FAIL! Got a good one for ya, friend of mines mother in laws minivan was shifting poorly, fluid was black and smelled burnt and despite my warnings she had it flushed by a good local garage who even advised her not too and guess what, she now has a jasper trans in it! The burnt smell you have or black gook that was your trans is pcs of metal and plastic inside the trans that are literally wearing out and burning up. If there is damage inside the transmission due to lack of fluid changes then the damage is already done and adding new slick fluid will only make matters worse.

You can believe whatever you want, but real world experiences as a mechanic for 20 years mean I know wtf im talking about.

I am having difficulty with the notion that dirty fluid is somehow better for a transmission than clean fluid is.

Your conclusions are likely due to a lack of experimental control. The transmissions in question were on their death beds anyway and failure was probably imminent regardless of fluid condition.

Everyone who eats a tomato will die....eventually. Tomatos are therefore poisonous, right?

To test your claim, you would need 100 transmissions all in a given state of wear, say with frictions 95% worn out. This would have to be confirmed with tear downs and measurements before the tests would begin. Then 50 transmissions would be given fresh ATF, the other 50 their original (dirty) ATF, and then all run on a transmission dyno until failure occurred. Does such data exist?

[Mr. Creosote]

Originally Posted by duffyatkinson

I hear this assertion thrown all over the internet -- and in dealer service bays.

It is BUNK.

There is no way that "burnt, brown or black" ATF is "holding it together" and removing this material and replacing with new fluid will cause this "holding it together" function to be lost. Chances are, the lack of proper service caused the fluid to be in this condition to begin with. To argue that letting this worn out, marginalized fluid remain because "...your trans is toast anyways..." is an off-the-cuff, poorly conceived recommendation that does the OP a huge disservice.

Duffy Atkinson rocks.

[stevekx]

I put in 4 new qts of tranny fluid every 10K miles by draning the pan. Also I try to let off the gas pedal momentarily when the tranny is ready to upshift (this will not slow you down just take the pressure off the clutches). So far over 150k and no problems. I have done this for all vehicles I owned, so far never a tranny problem.

[tundraman89]

Here is my input if the trans has over 100k DON'T flush it, like everyone is saying whatever is built up on the inside will cause trans to fail. Mine has 193k im fixing to drain the fluid and change filter and that all. A flush cleans the everything and it will brake loose anything built up inside and may clog up the trans, so no do not flush if it has over 100k or smells burnt. BTW my rear end went out and that is why i'm changing the fluid and filter.

[duffyatkinson]

Originally Posted by tundraman89

Here is my input if the trans has over 100k DON'T flush it, like everyone is saying whatever is built up on the inside will cause trans to fail. Mine has 193k im fixing to drain the fluid and change filter and that all. A flush cleans the everything and it will brake loose anything built up inside and may clog up the trans, so no do not flush if it has over 100k or smells burnt. BTW my rear end went out and that is why i'm changing the fluid and filter.

Folks, the "flush" that you are talking about that causes this sort of debris-clogged failure results from use of the old 'tranny flush' systems that force the new fluid through the system with external pumps under pressures that exceed normal operating tolerances. If you are doing a T-Tech type flush (or doing it via your cooler return line in your garage, which is essentially the same process...) you are using your own ATF pump to move the fluid. Normal fluid pressures + normal operation = no free-migrating contaminants.

If you have concerns with sediment buildup (carbon, sludge, dirt, third-party abrasives) dislodging and migrating to a valve --a real concern, btw--, and need to get new fluid into your transmission, then utilize a metal cleaner like Auto-Rx which is NOT a solvent, but an lanolin ester-based cleaning agent which slowly dissolves the sludge and buildup, suspends it in solution, and allows it to be carried out of the system in a liquid state while maintaining the native fluid's chemistry.

I also highly recommend installing the Magnefine (http://www.emergingent.com/subpage1Magnefine.htm) inline transmission fluid filter at your cooler outlet. This filter has a powerful magnet and also traps ferrous particles down to 3-15 microns, far better filtration than the 100-125 microns that the screen filter might capture in your pan.

[SOSHeloPilot]

.

Excellent thread here ... I have learned a lot. ...

My Tacoma has about 8,500 miles on it and I intended to drain off some "transmission bolt hole drain fluid" (3 to 4 qts.) into a measured bucket.

Then add back that exact amount into the transmission fill plug.

.

[YotaFun]

I know this is my first post but I have been lurking around this site for a while and came across this thread.
I am a student at an automotive school and I just went through an automatic transmission course with an instructor that has been rebuilding transmissions for years.

Do not flush your fluid if the color is dark brown or black, or has a burnt smell to it.
Think about it, when a clutch pack wears, where is all that friction material going?
The filter can only clean out so much to the point that the fluid will just keep recirculating the friction material with it.
The only thing that is allowing that trans to still operate some what is the fact that when fluid pressure is applied to what ever clutch pack for what ever gear you are in it traps the fluid in between and grips as much as it can, but it wont be like the day you bought the truck and will slip.

Ever just pour lucas stop slip out and regular trans fluid?
Ever notice how THICK Lucas is?
Its to make up for that friction material you just took out.

You want more proof gentlemen?
A women I work with just had her trans flushed after I advised her not to since the fluid was black and smelt like crap and a half.
Now, she is looking for a new transmission...

I can go on and on about this gentlemen,
duffyatkinson makes a point that doing a certain type of flush could cause more mechanical failures.
but so can the fluid.

call me a lier
call me a moron
I have seen the proof
I have talked to the professionals

You do what you want OP, its your truck.
But my recommendation is if your fluid is black or dark brown and or smells burnt, start hunting for another transmission.
If it is still good.
I would follow this write up,
Obviously get what you need for your specific truck, but essentially same process:
Dropping Pan And Flushing Transmission

Good luck to the OP

EDIT: I realized the link I posted is the same one CJM too has posted.
But I have done the flush before on my friends Taco, and Soon will be doing it on mine along with adding a Trans cooler, and I am using that thread as a reference....