Brake Problems. Will Toyota Help?

[KLS]

A1 Cardone is offering reman "B" calipers
http://www.cardone.com/English/Club/...es/default.asp
www.rockauto.com

I don't think cryotreating hardens the cast iron in the rotors...I don't think it has any downside except in the wallet.


Ken

[Pigfarmer]

First,thanks to all for your advice in the posts here. I will assume that when the dealer looks at my 2002 Tundra on 9/26 he will say I need to have the TSB done. I performed the road test outlined in the TSB and,to no surprise,could not duplicate the juddering using the parking brake-so I will assume it is the front brakes. (yes,I have ALWAYS used the parking brake). Because the dealer has already advised me that the parts alone are at least $2000,I am all but certain that I will have an independent do the work,however that raises some questions. First,I'd like suggestions on what brand of larger calipers to get and where to get them. Also,part numbers for ANY of the needed pads,rotors,calipers would be helpful. There are enough suggestions here concerning brands and types of pads and rotors that I'm sure I can figure that out. To minimize labor I will tell the independent to just trim down the backing plate for the calipers instead of dismantling the entire front end for hub removal,etc. Finally,the number of competent and properly equipped independents here in VT is limited-what reaction do you think I'll get when I tell them what parts I want to use?

[greasefingers]

Ok maybe you guys can help me out. I have a 4.7 liter 2003 4runner. At 40 k miles I experienced brake pulsation. I had the rotors cut and I installed new ceramic pads. I see now, from reading this thread, that the pads my not be a good choice. After about 100 miles with the new setup, the pulsation is back again. The rotors have a faint blue color to them. I assume that it is getting too hot. I would like to check the run-out myself. I have a dial caliper. I assume you remove the wheel and torque the lug nuts, without the wheel in place, to spec with a torque wrench and then setup the dial caliper?

Also, what does total run-out mean? Is this multiplying the run-out measured on one side by 2 or do you measure the run-out from both sides of the caliper and then add the two numbers?

My next step after this will be to have the rotors cut again, re-check the run-out, and purchase OME pads.

Thanks…Steve

[KLS]

Piggy,
The part numbers are shown on the TSB page. You can only get Toyota calipers and brake tubing, but you can find remanufactured calipers that should work fine. The choice of pads is yours.

Grease,
Be sure you have enough material remaining on your rotors before you have them turned again. If they get too thin, they heat up worse.

Turn the steel-wheel lug nuts backward and bolt the flat side of the nuts against the tophat of the rotor. Torque to spec. I don't know if alloy wheel nuts will work. You need a dial indicator, not a dial caliper. Set the dial indicator so it is mounted securely with the pin against the rotor and rotate the rotor one turn. Read the amount of runout off the dial.


Ken

[greasefingers]

Yes, I meant to say dial indicator. I think the micrometer that I have only opens to 1.00 “. I will use a vernier caliper if that is the case to measure the rotor thickness. Thanks

[MEvang]

Pigfarmer,
I am looking into the availability of aftermarket calipers. Since there are hundreds of small independent sources across the country I will most likely stick with the big names.
I just got my hands on the latest Raybestos catalogs. This is the number one top name in aftermarket brake parts. They do not list the bigger caliper in their catalog. But here is what is listed. Note: they identify "A" brake parts as 4.7" pad plate and "B" as 5.3" pad plate.
I will only list one grade of pad they do offer several.
Pads: 2000-03 = 4.7" PGD812M 2004 = PGD976M
5.3" PGD976M
Shoes: 2000-03 = 589PG 2004 = 746PG
Calipers: 2000-03 = 4.7" pad plate RC11039 (left) RC11040 (right)
Rotors: 2000-04 = 96931 diameter 12 35/64"
Drums: 2000-02 = 9328 Brake shoe diam X Width 295x50mm
Master Cylinder 2000-03 MC390588 Diam 13/16"
Wheel Cylinder 2000-004 WC37690 Diam 1"
This does give an Idea of what parts where switched and when and as you can see the rotors have always stayed the same.
I will check with Cardone next. This company will many times list things that they don't have readily available. The reason why is they will rebuild brake parts that are sent into them. In this case you don't have the parts that needs rebuilt.
If you need to find a shop in your area check on this site: http://www.iatn.net/ click on "Shop Finder" this sites members are some of the best tech's in the country. Take them the service bulletin so they know what you want done exactly. Tell them that the backing plates can be trimmed to fit so that the bearings are not disturbed. I think most shops will completely understand what you are trying to do here.

Steve,
The only thing I would like to add to what Ken has told you is about your brake pad choice.
I agree you should go back to OEM pads, ceramic pads are what's "in" right now. A while ago it was Kevlar. That didn't work either. My advice is to stay away from the "in" thing when it comes to brake pads. These magic pad materials are just sales tool to get you to buy their brand of pad. Of course then everyone follows suit and then this material is not "in" anymore. This is a big subject so I'll just say OEM pads are designed and tested for your vehicle precisely and you can't do much better then that.
Mike

[MOREPOWER]

oem pads seem to me very clean very little dust, compared to oem on fords their trucks front wheels always filthy, i clean my wheels weekly and they are hardly dirty.

what about the brembo red calipers has anyone tried these or are they mostly looks and pricey

[Ray Keetch]

My Tundra's vibrating brakes lead me to this site.
My Tundra went through brakes like Paris Hilton through make-up!
Then my dealership informed me that a mere $2500 CDN (2000K US) would fix the problem.
Through this site I found out about the TSB, when I mentioned this to my Dealer they 1st played ignorant, then claimed it was only a US TSB. A fellow Canuck then posted the Canadian TSB # which I brought to the Dealers attention. Finally they said sorry you're out of warrantee. Luckily I had my Tundra in for another brake job just before the warrantee expired. I took this info to the Dealer and they suggested I contact Toyota directly. After another month of calls & b*tching they agreed to pay for the TSB.
I travel from a Ski Resort to the valley daily, a vertical drop of 5000ft in 30km (20miles) and I'm happy to report my brakes seem flawless since the work was done last fall.
I am also happy I did not opt for the cryo rotors & fancy pads as the TSB stuff seems to do the job.

So for those that are out of warrantee check and see IF you had complained about your brakes prior to your warrantee expiring, this just may give you the leverage you've been looking for.

IMO the days of Dealers keeping us customers in the dark about TSB's is over. The internet has provided the customer with much needed info and Dealerships need to be pro-active if loyalty is something they want from us.

Though I was very upset with how my troubles were handled, I must also say Toyota & my Dealer made amends in the end. (in a way I guess they had to!)

Good luck to those that need it!!!

[Pigfarmer]

thanks for the insight,parts numbers,etc. Unfortunately, I am out of warranty and this will be my first work on the brakes (at 31500 miles.) I will listen to what the dealer suggests on Monday as they are doing the ball joint recall. Perhaps while they are working on it they could at least install the new calipers and save some of the labor cost. However,I really don't want their pads or rotors. Do you think if I whine enough they consider putting on some decent aftermarket pads and rotors as opposed to Toyota parts?

[randyeverett]

Originally Posted by Pigfarmer

thanks for the insight,parts numbers,etc. Unfortunately, I am out of warranty and this will be my first work on the brakes (at 31500 miles.) I will listen to what the dealer suggests on Monday as they are doing the ball joint recall. Perhaps while they are working on it they could at least install the new calipers and save some of the labor cost. However,I really don't want their pads or rotors. Do you think if I whine enough they consider putting on some decent aftermarket pads and rotors as opposed to Toyota parts?

Why are you out of warranty at 31K? Unless I've had a brain fart....the warranty should run to 36K.

I understand your feeling about "I really don't want their pads or rotors", but the free brake TSB is good ($1800), especially when it works........which it did for alot of us.

As to them installing aftermarket parts..............don't think it will happen.

Push the TSB route while it's still under warranty.

RE

[MOREPOWER]

Originally Posted by randyeverett

Why are you out of warranty at 31K? Unless I've had a brain fart....the warranty should run to 36K.

I understand your feeling about "I really don't want their pads or rotors", but the free brake TSB is good ($1800), especially when it works........which it did for alot of us.

As to them installing aftermarket parts..............don't think it will happen.

Push the TSB route while it's still under warranty.

RE

my tundra is out of warranty at 25000 miles its over 3 years old

[Tundrav8yamaha]

Originally Posted by randyeverett

Why are you out of warranty at 31K? Unless I've had a brain fart....the warranty should run to 36K.

I understand your feeling about "I really don't want their pads or rotors", but the free brake TSB is good ($1800), especially when it works........which it did for alot of us.

As to them installing aftermarket parts..............don't think it will happen.

Push the TSB route while it's still under warranty.

RE

I agree Toyota should be accountable for there action's I for one don't put up with any Dealership (stealership ) BULL or any excusses from there end maybe that's why they dont like me (oh well) i am the customer so start getting the ball rolling in the right court or else meet my front grill ...

[Pigfarmer]

the vehicle is over 3 years old (4 months ago)-so much for their legendary reliability and durability. It just pi__es me off to have to pay over $2000 (their estimate) to have the entire front braking system rebuilt at 31500 miles. I could understand pads only ( had the same problem with my previuos Ford),however,this is ludicrous.

[MEvang]

Would you guy be interested in a aftermarket kit that contained all the parts needed to do this brake upgrade yourself? Dorman Products is always looking for ideas for stuff like this. They now have a line called Motormight you may have seen these parts in red boxes at Auto Zone. They cover a lot of small dealer only parts that are hard to get.
Well, I just dropped the idea of a aftermarket kit for a Tundra brake upgrade on them. You can do the same, just go to their web site http://www.dormanproducts.com/ click on new ideas and tell they you think the idea of a brake kit would fly. Maybe they will help.
I know some of you have had this done by the dealer but there will be more and more people come in here that buy these early trucks used (like me) or people who are hopelessly out of warranty (like Pgfarmer) that would like an upgrade like this. Plus I know if I was still doing brakes every day I would prefer to offer this upgrade to my customer then take a chance that they may come back unhappy with the original brakes I replaced.
What I wrote to Dorman:

I have been talking to some Toyota Tundra owners on a web site; http://www.tundrasolutions.com/ about problem with front brake pulsation. Seem Toyota has a technical service bulletin on this problem BR004-02. In this bulletin they switch the front calipers to larger calipers and install larger pads. They also change the backing plate and a steel brake line. I have talked to some dealer tech's on iATN and they tell me the baking plate can be installed without removing the wheel bearing if it is cut and made two piece. They were confused why Toyota didn't do this.
The request here is, since your now into selling calipers, is to make this upgrade available to Toyota Tundra owners (2000-2003) that are now out of warranty and can't get this done at no cost by the dealers. Most tell me Toyota wants over $2000.00 to do this job.If the backing plate was made to slip on without removing the wheel bearing and all came in a kit this would be a simple bolt on job and take minimal labor.

[greasefingers]

Sorry for piggy-backin this thread. You can tell me to go away if you want. Well I measured my run-out on my 4runner’s rotors ( 0.005 and 0.006” )
The Toy 2003 FSM states that the maximum run-out is 0.002” This seems a bit tight. If it’s true than I do not think that my local auto parts store got anywhere near that close, when I had them turn them back in July. I suspect that no chain parts store has the ability to get that tolerance. Does anyone else feel that this is a ridiculous spec?

My next step will be to have the dealer turn them and then slap OME pads on. Thanks for listening! I Posted this on my regular 4runner forum, but no one replied. You guys where the only ones who responded. Thanks for your input.