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1Gen-TundraGeneral discussion forum for the 2000 to 2006 Toyota Tundra.
This is a discussion thread titled "Gas Grades", within the 1Gen-Tundra forum, part of the Truck Forums category.
Gas grades vs. mileage & performance. Has anyone with a tundra ever been able to tell a difference in performance or mileage using a higher grade gas?
You won't see a difference. Even on engines that "require" the higher octane you often don't even see the difference when you drop to 87 vs 91 octane.
Unless you have a turbo-charged, supercharged engine or have a high compression (true high compression) engine (which will pre-ignite) it not very likely that you'll HAVE to run high octane fuel.
You won't see a difference. Even on engines that "require" the higher octane you often don't even see the difference when you drop to 87 vs 91 octane.
Unless you have a turbo-charged, supercharged engine or have a high compression (true high compression) engine (which will pre-ignite) it not very likely that you'll HAVE to run high octane fuel.
Alan
I experimented with 2 or 3 tanks of 94 octane in my 05 and I noticed a slight increase in performance (acceleration, throttle response) , then I went back to 87 and it wasn't that much different for me to pay extra especially now with the high prices.
I also have a 91 Z28 and there is a huge difference when going fromm 87 to 94 octane.
In the 90K+ miles I've driven my '03 Tundra I've run 2-3 tests of using different octanes. I normally use reg and get 20-21 MPG. When I switch to premium I get around 20-21. (And this is not just 'fillup once and check', I'll run maybe a dozen fillups on my little tests) NO difference in mileage. I can however tell a minor difference in power. It may just be all in my head but I honestly believe there IS a difference in power. However, for the difference in money, it's just not worth it. The truck runs perfectly fine on low octane.
My trucks run premium all the time. My experience and research running premium and recording mileage indicate slightly less than 10% increase in mileage running premium versus regular. The increase in cost is less than 10% now, so financially it makes sense. Additionally, the difference in oil contamination and tailpipe dirt is significant.
When I check the oil in my tundra, before an oil change it's still a light brown. In all the vehicles I've run regular in, it's almost black. When I changed to premium in my tacoma, it went from black to brown.
I've been told I'm silly to spend the extra money, so don't bother telling me again. I'm not an idiot and I've done my research. I'll put my money where it's proven to offer value.
My trucks run premium all the time. My experience and research running premium and recording mileage indicate slightly less than 10% increase in mileage running premium versus regular. The increase in cost is less than 10% now, so financially it makes sense. Additionally, the difference in oil contamination and tailpipe dirt is significant.
When I check the oil in my tundra, before an oil change it's still a light brown. In all the vehicles I've run regular in, it's almost black. When I changed to premium in my tacoma, it went from black to brown.
I've been told I'm silly to spend the extra money, so don't bother telling me again. I'm not an idiot and I've done my research. I'll put my money where it's proven to offer value.
Jason
Glad to see I'm not the only one who will use premium. I use it in my wifes Kia Sorento, My 19' Bass Boat and even in my lawn equipment.Same goes with the Mobil One
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Higher octane cannot and will not increase performance, nor will it give you better gas mileage. Simple, and true. Unless, as stated above, you have a high compression engine, or forced induction of some sort. All that higher octane fuel does, is delay ignition. Take in consideration, that it takes more pressure and thus a higher temperature to burn higher octane, and you can see, that you are actually reversing everything. You keep burning high octane fuel in a vehicle that is designed to run 87, and eventually, you could do harm. It's also harder on your emmisions, like O2 sensors and EGR and such.
So, if you consider that you're paying an additional .20 cents per gallon, and you're wearing out your emmisions components quicker, you're really throwing your money away.
I had a turbo charged Eclipse, ran 20PSI, and had to run 93 in it. I "had" to run it. Why would I want to run it, if I didn't have to? When, I would take it to the drag strip, I ran 100 octane. The reason? To turn up the boost. If I didn't turn up the boost, all I was doing was burning $8/gallon fuel for the same results.
Don't run high octane, your engine does not need it...
Sorry for the rant, just trying to help clarify.
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Higher octane cannot and will not increase performance, nor will it give you better gas mileage. Simple, and true. Unless, as stated above, you have a high compression engine, or forced induction of some sort. All that higher octane fuel does, is delay ignition. Take in consideration, that it takes more pressure and thus a higher temperature to burn higher octane, and you can see, that you are actually reversing everything. You keep burning high octane fuel in a vehicle that is designed to run 87, and eventually, you could do harm. It's also harder on your emmisions, like O2 sensors and EGR and such.
So, if you consider that you're paying an additional .20 cents per gallon, and you're wearing out your emmisions components quicker, you're really throwing your money away.
I had a turbo charged Eclipse, ran 20PSI, and had to run 93 in it. I "had" to run it. Why would I want to run it, if I didn't have to? When, I would take it to the drag strip, I ran 100 octane. The reason? To turn up the boost. If I didn't turn up the boost, all I was doing was burning $8/gallon fuel for the same results.
Don't run high octane, your engine does not need it...
Sorry for the rant, just trying to help clarify.
Actually,
The ignition happens at exactly the same time by spark timing. It takes a little longer for the fuel to burn, delaying the mean combustion.
Premium does burn cleaner and does create less deposits on the emissions equipment (O2 sensors EGR valves, tailpipes, cat converters) in my research. Additionally, every person I know of who has run regular in a vehicle designed for premium, has had issues with O2 sensor malfuctions. In my current vehicles and all previous toyotas it has offered slightly better fuel economy. It is a common practice to run premium during emissions testing to improve the tested performance.
So it's cleaner to burn, better for the equipment, contaminates the oil less and provides me, in my environment, better mileage for a marginal increase in price. It may be a wash for the cost, but it's not a loss.
"The ignition happens at exactly the same time by spark timing."
That's not a true statement in modern computer controlled, fuel injected engines. It used to be true for non-ping sensing systems. A modern engine will adjust the spark based on ping. That's why you can run 87 in a mercedes (or whatever) even though they say to use 91.
If you run less than premium in a "premium designed engine", it just retards the spark some. Usually this small loss in power it barely noticed on other than a dyno test.
Conversely, when increasing the octane, the spark can be advanced and you get slightly more power, but again - usually not noticable and in mountainous area (where less octane is required naturally and 85 is probably fine) you could actually be getting more deposits due to unburned fuel (that may or may not be set off by more additives).
For the most part, specifying premium is a marketing ploy to keep the "Riff Raff" out...... (If the cost of the vehicle itself doesn't do the job. The relative gain you get on a non-inducted vehicle is pretty small and usually only really measurable by instrument.
It's no accident that high end/high status cars use premium. One of the tools of "distinction".
Alan
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprj8008
Actually,
The ignition happens at exactly the same time by spark timing. It takes a little longer for the fuel to burn, delaying the mean combustion.
Premium does burn cleaner and does create less deposits on the emissions equipment (O2 sensors EGR valves, tailpipes, cat converters) in my research. Additionally, every person I know of who has run regular in a vehicle designed for premium, has had issues with O2 sensor malfuctions. In my current vehicles and all previous toyotas it has offered slightly better fuel economy. It is a common practice to run premium during emissions testing to improve the tested performance.
So it's cleaner to burn, better for the equipment, contaminates the oil less and provides me, in my environment, better mileage for a marginal increase in price. It may be a wash for the cost, but it's not a loss.
By cars of distinction, you must be referring to the new tundra, pathfinder, ultima, accord and generally all of the 2007 compliant ULEV vehicles.
I'm not referring to the maximum power output and have no doubt that the difference is marginal with respect to horsepower or torque. If you are paying $3 a gallon and the premium for premium is $0.20 per gallon, you only need a 6% increase in mileage to get value from the additional cost.
In my 4runner I can get an additional 40ish kilometers from a tank of premium relative to the standard 450km I can get with regular fuel. That's closer to 10% gain. I have no idea what the effect on the tundra might be as it's been blown since birth...
If the engine can advance the timing slightly, rather than retard it, and make a little more power and a little more torque, the result will be better use of the fuel and more efficiency.
With the number of 4.7l tundra engines experiencing ping issues, it may be a consideration that Toyota actually tuned this engine to fairly tight tolerances running 87 octane fuel. I'd rather have the power than the ping, especially when towing or running on the highway.
Now I'm not about to got source some 95 octane fuel to get on the other side of this discussion. Financially that doesn't make sense. I am at altitude and that may affect my results. I intend to have this truck for a couple hundred thousand miles and consider that in my choice of fuel and lubrication.
I run synthetic and premium. There are arguements in both directions that it's overkill. In 400000km on toyotas with these consumables, I have not had an engine failure or any issue with ping, fouling plugs, catalytic converters, oxygen sensors or driveline problems. Maybe that has nothing to do with maintenance and more to do with Toyota. Perhaps the reason I spent a little more on a Toyota is a similar explanation to my use of high quality fuel and lubricants.
I had a nissan hardbody for 13 yrs and consistently got better gas mileage when using 92 or 93 octane gas and I felt it ran better. With my new Tundra, I mainly use unleaded plus and premium. Last month, I drove up to Ft Leonard Wood, MO and used regular unleaded. Although I didn't check my gas mileage, it didn't feel quite as smooth and responsive as compared to using premium gas. But I guess that is why they have three different grades at the pump.....freedom of choice.
...By cars of distinction, you must be referring to the new tundra, pathfinder, ultima, accord and generally all of the 2007 compliant ULEV vehicles....
Jason
LOL, no, that's not quite what I had in mind. But I do have to say that they are getting to be nicer vehicles. I've still got one of the original Pathfinders.
In general, a "car of distinction" is one where the car payments are more like house payments to normal people. But then again, when you buy those vehicles you often just pay cash anyway.
i'm with Jasbus and Alan on this one.
Simply put: less octane ignites easier, more octane suppresses pre ignition because it does not ignite as easy.
More octane will give a more controlled flame kernel and as such burn hotter for that brief millisecond.
I use hIgh octane where it needs to be used, in my high compression cars, but not in my truck. And here on the east coast the higher octane stuff is almost $0.40/gallon more.
Use what your owners manual tells you to use, anything more is a waste of money. Higher octane fuel will not increase your gas mileage. It does not burn cleaner and it does not make your vehicle run better. This is all a myth.
Just like Alan says, it's used to suppress "pinging" on high compression or supercharged engines.
Mike
Here is a quote from my 05 Tundra manual: "1GR-FE engine (v6), select octane rating 87 or higher. For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gas with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended"
"For 2UZ-FE (v8) engine, select octane rating 87 or higher".
Gas Grades
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