Tundra brake caliper TSB..

[capflya]

I have a few questions... what should the casting number be on the calipers that have been redesigned or fixed for the TSB? the ones I have now say 13WL but are not the right ones... I need to order the parts but I don't want to order the wrong calipers... thanks!!


-David

[Picasso]

I have a few questions... what should the casting number be on the calipers that have been redesigned or fixed for the TSB? the ones I have now say 13WL but are not the right ones... I need to order the parts but I don't want to order the wrong calipers... thanks!!


-David

David,
Welcome to TundraSolutions.

You already have the larger redesigned caliper that is specified to be installed per brake TSB BR004-02. Calipers that originally came on 2000 thru early 2003 Tundras had S13WE stamped on them. There are pictures of the old and new calipers in my photo gallery. Check out the album titled "Caliper and Rotor Installation." Just click on the very tiny camera icon in this window and you will be taken there. Take a look at the "D812 and D976 Pad Comparison" photo as well.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that your current calipers are not the right ones?


Paul

[capflya]

I had the brakes redone at like 40k miles because of a bad shimmy... the whole truck would shake a little bit when you pressed the brakes... they put on new pads and turned the rotors... I just took it to the dealer a few days ago and now they want to do the $2K brake job... at about 75k miles I need completly new brakes... just 35k miles since toyota did them for me? so I'm confused... I ordered some cross drilled an slotted rotors... they cost less than the stock rotors... and I ordered some calipers from kragen.. they're raybestos... and raybestos says the casting says 12WL or something like that... I'm just really confused thanks for the info! Now I have something to go on!


-David

[MEvang]

David,
The Raybestos calipers are the wrong ones for you. I have already checked into this and Raybestos does not have the bigger calipers yet. I haven't found anyone that does besides new from Toyota. I'm sure this will change in the next year or so. If you only have 35000 on those calipers you probably don't need them. Put the rotors on with new pads and you'll be fine.
I just redid my smaller brakes and hope to push them until Raybestos or some one has the bigger one's available in rebuilts.
Mike

[Picasso]

I had the brakes redone at like 40k miles because of a bad shimmy... the whole truck would shake a little bit when you pressed the brakes... they put on new pads and turned the rotors... I just took it to the dealer a few days ago and now they want to do the $2K brake job... at about 75k miles I need completly new brakes... just 35k miles since toyota did them for me? so I'm confused... I ordered some cross drilled an slotted rotors... they cost less than the stock rotors... and I ordered some calipers from kragen.. they're raybestos... and raybestos says the casting says 12WL or something like that... I'm just really confused thanks for the info! Now I have something to go on!


-David

David,
Members of this forum have described problems with our brakes which have outlined trends in a few areas. Malfunctioning calipers has not been one of those areas. In fact, I cannot recall a single instance where some one described a malfunctioning caliper. The design of the S13WE caliper may not be as robust as needed, but that caliper and the 13WL are not prone to failure.

From your posts it sounds like your front brakes are doing more work than they need, which is one of the problem area trends with our trucks, and would cause the brake shuddering that you described. This is probably the most discussed problem on this forum. Two of the most common causes of this are:

a. rear brakes out of adjustment (happens over time, very common, easy and cheap to fix)
b. Load Sensing Proportioning & Bypass Valve (LSP&BV) not set properly (special equipment needed to properly diagnose)


From your statements about your dealership, I question the technical skills and/or ethics of its service dept. No matter which Toyota caliper is on your truck, I am confident that you can get your brakes to function properly by following Mike's advice WITHOUT REPLACING YOUR CALIPERS. One thing that I would add would be that you should have your rear brakes cleaned and adjusted. I would also recommend that you take your vehicle somewhere else to have this done, or do the work yourself.

Members of this forum helped me tremendously when I fixed my brakes and with a few other things as well. Let us know how things go or if you have any other questions

Good luck.


Paul

[joeywa]

Picasso,
I have an '03 Tundra 4x4 TRD Access Cab. Built in Feb 03, purchased in March 03. 31K miles. Don't know if I have the new calipers, but am somewhat upset with my recent service visit yesterday/today.

I went in for the replacement of the front ball joints, (recall issue,) and was called mid-day by a service tech to tell me that I needed new brakes. They said that there was metal-to-metal on the pads. I got the shop forman on the phone, and he said the pad was "almost" to the sensor, thus not metal-to-metal. After these conflicting reports, and expressing my displeasure about having a problem with pads wearing out on a truck within 31K miles, I talked to the Service Manager. He put the truck up on the rack today, and I took a look at the front pads/rotor, rear discs/shoes. The rear was not wearing that much, (although he told me that there was more dust in the drum than there should have been.) The front pads were wearing unevenly. One pad on the driver's side was almost out, while the other three pads were OK for another probably 3-5K miles. (I still have a problem with the pads wearing this rapidly, esp since I don't tow anything with this truck.) The manager said that this wear was within guidelines as to not be considered "uneven" wear. I also told him that I felt that this issue needed to be looked at with regards to BR004-02, and he said that he could not "justify" this issue to Toyota based on worn pads, and that he'd be charged for the repair by Toyota. He said the BR004-02 is ONLY for vibrations during braking. He told me that he often sees Tundras in his shop for replacement brake pads at 15K miles. I told him that this should give him a clue that there are problems here with the current brake systems. Most brake pads on vehicles that I have owned are not ready for replacement until about 45K miles.

Upon leaving this morning with my truck, the service manager stated that he would replace the front pads for me, and charge me only for labor. I told him I'd let him know.

I will replace my own pads tomorrow sometime, but was wondering if it is worthwhile to have this truck looked at by another Toyota Dealership for the replacement calipers/rotor under BR004-02? I cannot find a link to this TSB, so I can't read the details, but in your opinion, would this be something that I need to have done prior to my warranty being up in March or 4800 miles? (3/36 warranty.) Does this TSB really apply to my truck? Any recommendation on pads?

Thanks in advance.
joey

[Picasso]

Welcome to TundraSolutions. You've come to the right place.
Most of the front brake problems discussed on this board involve vibration. Since you don't seem to have this problem, I'm hoping that the big brains who frequent this board will chime in to provide guidance in case I have gone down the wrong path. In the mean time, here's my first shot.

Picasso,
I have an '03 Tundra 4x4 TRD Access Cab. Built in Feb 03, purchased in March 03. 31K miles. Don't know if I have the new calipers, but am somewhat upset with my recent service visit yesterday/today.

Please look at your calipers near the bleeder valve to see which caliper design is on your truck. That's where you will find either 13WL or S13WE stamped.

I went in for the replacement of the front ball joints, (recall issue,) and was called mid-day by a service tech to tell me that I needed new brakes. They said that there was metal-to-metal on the pads. I got the shop forman on the phone, and he said the pad was "almost" to the sensor, thus not metal-to-metal. After these conflicting reports, and expressing my displeasure about having a problem with pads wearing out on a truck within 31K miles, I talked to the Service Manager. He put the truck up on the rack today, and I took a look at the front pads/rotor, rear discs/shoes. The rear was not wearing that much, (although he told me that there was more dust in the drum than there should have been.)

I get the distinct impression that this service dept is looking after their best interests at your expense.

The front pads were wearing unevenly. One pad on the driver's side was almost out, while the other three pads were OK for another probably 3-5K miles. (I still have a problem with the pads wearing this rapidly, esp since I don't tow anything with this truck.) The manager said that this wear was within guidelines as to not be considered "uneven" wear.

I don't know about any guidelines but this doesn't sound to off. Many people have reported uneven pad wear on this forum. The most frequently mentioned pattern consists of the inner pads wearing faster than the outer pads, a condition that I also experienced on my truck.

I also told him that I felt that this issue needed to be looked at with regards to BR004-02, and he said that he could not "justify" this issue to Toyota based on worn pads, and that he'd be charged for the repair by Toyota. He said the BR004-02 is ONLY for vibrations during braking.

That sounds right to me. The title of this TSB is Front Brake Vibration and the introduction mentions only that.

He told me that he often sees Tundras in his shop for replacement brake pads at 15K miles. I told him that this should give him a clue that there are problems here with the current brake systems. Most brake pads on vehicles that I have owned are not ready for replacement until about 45K miles.

I will replace my own pads tomorrow sometime, but was wondering if it is worthwhile to have this truck looked at by another Toyota Dealership for the replacement calipers/rotor under BR004-02? I cannot find a link to this TSB, so I can't read the details, but in your opinion, would this be something that I need to have done prior to my warranty being up in March or 4800 miles? (3/36 warranty.)

If you already have the 13WL caliper on your truck, then trying to get the TSB done is a moot point. I recall only one or two people on this board who have had this TSB done under warranty while not experiencing vibrations. Given your symptoms, I wouldn't necessarily pursue having the TSB done. What I would pursue is to check the functioning of your rear brakes just to ensure that they are working the way they should be. Here's a link that, in addition to discussing front brake vibration, also discusses the significance and maintenance of rear brake operation. Brake Problems There are more links in that thread which provide more info regarding brake systems as a whole.

Does this TSB really apply to my truck?

It doesn't sound like it.

Any recommendation on pads?

There are many different recommendations depending on your criteria such as price, performance, dusting, etc.. I recommend that you utilize the search link located in the blue bar near the top of this page and search thread TITLES using keywords Pads, and Recommendation. This should give you a few threads that cover this frequently discussed topic.

Once we know which caliper is currently on your truck, we can provide better guidance. Hope this helps.


Paul

[joeywa]

Picasso,
First off, thank you for your responses. It is nice to have a forum to discuss these types of things in. I am a newbie here, and had it not been for my frustration with the dealership, I would not have found this site. I did purchase some Wagner ThermaQuiet performance pads yesterday evening. I am to replace these tomorrow. I will find out what caliper I have on my truck at that time.
As I find out information, I will post to see what the thoughts are in regards to how I proceed.
On a different note, if you ever are in need of service or parts in Dallas, Lupe Olveda at Fowler Toyota has always been a great help to me. I actually order parts from him, (TRD oil filters, etc.,) and have them shipped to me in WA for less than I can go to the dealership here and purchase them for. I grew up in the metroplex and if I ever get back to TX, I will use Fowler merely due to the numerous positive experiences I have had with them.

[joeywa]

Post installation:
Well, I got the wheels off of the truck and pulled the pads to find that the Wagners I bought were the wrong size. I do have the 13WL calipers, which requires a different size pad, (most parts houses have this pad listed for the 2004 Tundra; the 2003 is referenced to a smaller pad.)
No problems with installation nor with immediate after-effects. So far, so good. Thanks again Picasso for your input. Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays, (whichever fits your situation.)

[TundraTony]

Are the TSBs only done under warranty? I have a 2000 Tundra Access Cab. I have always had vibration problems. At 15000 they turned rotors and replaced pads under warranty. At 30,000 the problem was back and there was a TSB at that point. They replaced the ROTORs and put on new supposedly better pads that at the time were supposed to fix the problem. At about 45000 miles the problem started to return but very slightly. It has been getting very slowly progresively worse. Now I have 85000 miles on the truck and can't stand it. I need to fix this problem but it sounds like I need the calipers replaced and maybe the proportioning valve adjusted. Is this going to cost me a bundle?
Thanks,
Clueless in California

[MOREPOWER]

tsb is done only within warranty, at 30000 miles they should have done the calipers and pads oer tsb, they would do a tsb out of warranty if you had it in there for the brake work while under the 3 year 36, but now its 85k miles later you drove it for 40k i dont think they would do anything for you, i would turn the rotors and new pads and drive it another 30k and forget the calipers i would not do them out of pocket now. my 2 cents

[TundraTony]

I will have to look back but I am pretty sure they just moved to a new compound brake pad under that tsb at that time. Don't remember what number it was but it was a number of years ago. Unfortunately at 36,000 miles it was still functioning fine. Problem didn't start to reoccur until 45,000 miles. And it wasn't bad until the last couple of thousand. But now I definetly need to do something about it.

[robbergeron23]

I just checked my calipers from the inside of the wheel (nearest to the motor) and sure enough and surprising enough, 13WL is stamped on them. They do look a lot bigger than the pics I have seen of the S13WE. My truck was built in Feb, 2003. Its a Access cab, SR5 V6 RWD and it still has the larger calipers! Perhaps the original owner (I am the second) had the brakes upgraded......oh well, just thought I would share the info. thanks

[Picasso]

At about 45000 miles the problem started to return but very slightly. It has been getting very slowly progressively worse. Now I have 85000 miles on the truck and can't stand it. I need to fix this problem but it sounds like I need the calipers replaced and maybe the proportioning valve adjusted. Is this going to cost me a bundle?
Thanks,
Clueless in California

Many people have successfully resolved the front brake shakes by simply replacing their rotors and pads from quality after-market manufacturers. I agree with your recommendation to check your LSP&BV and would also add that you check and clean up your rear brakes to try to prevent this from recurring. Approaching your brake system as a whole will provide a greater chance of resolving the brake shakes. I outline this in my post, #7 of this thread, which includes a link to other threads with more info.

Good luck.


Paul

[pvarcher@carolina.rr]

Picasso,
I have an '03 Tundra 4x4 TRD Access Cab. Built in Feb 03, purchased in March 03. 31K miles. Don't know if I have the new calipers, but am somewhat upset with my recent service visit yesterday/today.

I went in for the replacement of the front ball joints, (recall issue,) and was called mid-day by a service tech to tell me that I needed new brakes. They said that there was metal-to-metal on the pads. I got the shop forman on the phone, and he said the pad was "almost" to the sensor, thus not metal-to-metal. After these conflicting reports, and expressing my displeasure about having a problem with pads wearing out on a truck within 31K miles, I talked to the Service Manager. He put the truck up on the rack today, and I took a look at the front pads/rotor, rear discs/shoes. The rear was not wearing that much, (although he told me that there was more dust in the drum than there should have been.) The front pads were wearing unevenly. One pad on the driver's side was almost out, while the other three pads were OK for another probably 3-5K miles. (I still have a problem with the pads wearing this rapidly, esp since I don't tow anything with this truck.) The manager said that this wear was within guidelines as to not be considered "uneven" wear. I also told him that I felt that this issue needed to be looked at with regards to BR004-02, and he said that he could not "justify" this issue to Toyota based on worn pads, and that he'd be charged for the repair by Toyota. He said the BR004-02 is ONLY for vibrations during braking. He told me that he often sees Tundras in his shop for replacement brake pads at 15K miles. I told him that this should give him a clue that there are problems here with the current brake systems. Most brake pads on vehicles that I have owned are not ready for replacement until about 45K miles.

Upon leaving this morning with my truck, the service manager stated that he would replace the front pads for me, and charge me only for labor. I told him I'd let him know.



I will replace my own pads tomorrow sometime, but was wondering if it is worthwhile to have this truck looked at by another Toyota Dealership for the replacement calipers/rotor under BR004-02? I cannot find a link to this TSB, so I can't read the details, but in your opinion, would this be something that I need to have done prior to my warranty being up in March or 4800 miles? (3/36 warranty.) Does this TSB really apply to my truck? Any recommendation on pads?

Thanks in advance.
joey

Joey:

Curious comment about mileage on pads. My '03 Tundra has 40K and I need to replace pads. Most I have gotten on any vehicle since i started changing my own pads in mid '80s. This inlcudes three BMWs, an Audi and an Avalon. If fact, the first BMW got only 18k.

Any good advice on what kind of pads to use?

Thanks.
P.V. Archer