How big are your Toy Haulers or Travel Trailers?

[Nevadastars]

I'm looking at getting a Toy Hauler, and not sure what size to look at. I dont trust the dealers, because they will just try and sell you the biggest, most expensive thing they got. Toyota says I'm good for around 7100lbs with my '05 AC 4x4 and towing package. What are you guys pulling, and how is your Tundra handling it? What, if any rear suspension mods have you done? Thanks in advance.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I'm looking at getting a Toy Hauler, and not sure what size to look at. I dont trust the dealers, because they will just try and sell you the biggest, most expensive thing they got. Toyota says I'm good for around 7100lbs with my '05 AC 4x4 and towing package. What are you guys pulling, and how is your Tundra handling it? What, if any rear suspension mods have you done? Thanks in advance.

First of all, even at sea level your truck is good for only around 6000lbs of total, loaded trailer weight. Go to higher elevations and the allowable trailer weight drops off...I mostly tow at elevations of 6000 to 12,000 feet and feel that a 4000 lb trailer (loaded) is more than enough for an AC Tundra.

You must always remember that the truck's 7100 lb "tow capacity" is calculated by subtracting the weight of a bare bones, no cargo, no gas, no passengers, no options, 150 lb driver, truck from the number that really counts...the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating), which is a pretty light 11,800 lbs. I've actually weighed my truck...an '03 4WD AC...and found the actual weight with just me (~200 lbs), full tank of gas, and about 200 lbs of cargo is 5200 lbs. Subtract 5200 lbs from 11,800 and the tow capacity is only 6600 lbs. Add another adult passenger, maybe a kid or two, and couple hundred more lbs of cargo in the truck and the available real-world tow capacity drops to about 6000 lbs. Remember that's the maximum weight of the loaded trailer...when you subtract your planned cargo and the trailer's dealer/factory options, you better not be planning on towing a trailer with a dry weight of more than 4500~5000 lbs.

I am very strongly of the opinion than anyone who modifies his truck's rear suspension in an attempt to improve towing capability of a standard type trailer is stupid. And completely clueless. And going about things completely wrong. Modifying the rear suspension is the absolute dumbest, stupidest, most thick-headed thing you can do.

Here's why: When you attach a conventional trailer to the hitch ball, three (not just one) things happen to the tow vehicle. First, as expected, all of the tongue weight goes on the rear suspension and it squats. But that's just the beginning...because that tongue weight is applied well behind the rear axle, it also causes the front suspension to become unweighted...lighter...by several hundred lbs because of a teeter-totter like action where the rear axle is the pivot point. So the front suspension actually rises...and the front tires have less grip so steering and front braking are diminished. And worse yet, that weight that comes off the front suspension doesn't vanish into space; it too is put on the rear suspension. The result is that with the typical ratio of wheelbase to rear overhang, the rear suspension is carrying about 130% of the tongue weight and the front suspension is unweighted by around 30% of the tongue weight. What most people refer to as "rear sag" is actually not just rear sag (though there's plenty with 130% of the tongue weight on the rear springs) but the combination of rear sag and front rise...it's no wonder the truck drags its tail.

Now if you try to fix this huge weight imbalance by only beefing up the rear suspension, you might get the truck level...but that will be level will be with the raised front suspension. And that means the rear brake proportioning valve is almost closed so the front brakes...with reduced front tire grip...have to do almost all the stopping. Dumb has now become dumber.

Furthermore, the axle and rear frame of a Tundra are about equal in strength to the rear suspension. The axle is basically right out of a Tacoma and the differential is a Tacoma differential. If the suspension is beefed up, then the point of overload & failure will be either the axle or frame...and people have broken both the axle and frame by overloading the truck after they installed overload springs and air bags on the suspension. Dumb has now become dumbest.

The solution is to not do anything at all to the rear suspension but to simply use a weight distributing hitch (WDH). A WDH has a pair of very heavy duty springs (in the form of spring bars) that, when correctly chosen/adjusted, will transfer about a third of the tongue weight to the truck's front suspension (thus improving front tire grip and also front braking and steering), about a third of the tongue weight to the rear suspension, and about a third to the trailer's suspension. The result is the front and rear are equally loaded...so they squat equally and the truck stays level. And the rear suspension is so lightly loaded (typically only 200 to 300 lbs) that it barely squats at all.

Finally, you need to be aware that toy haulers are very tricky from a weight & loading point of view. They're fine if you have no cargo...and empty tanks...or full tanks in front and cargo in back. But if you have no cargo in the back but full tanks in the front, then the tongue weight skyrockets. And if you have cargo in back but empty tanks, then the tongue weight becomes very light (tail heavy) and the trailer will be very, very prone to sway. Which brings up another advantage of a WDH...they are usually equipped with sway control devices and you will definitely need sway control with most toy haulers. And a WDH can be adjusted as needed to at least partially accomodate widely varying tongue weights. In any event, I strongly suggest you not try to tow any toy hauler that's longer than 23 or 24 feet and, given their propensity for sway if not loaded properly, you'd be much better off staying under 20 feet.

[Nevadastars]

Wow, thanks for the in-depth answer Ray. That pretty much answers my questions. I have been thinking of a used motorhome to pull the ATVs with, but a friend asked if I checked into Toy Haulers. Which is why my post. 24ft is a bit smaller than we would like. So, looks like I will be searching for a 28-32ft motorhome for our needs. Either that or an F350.

[krodad]

Great answer and very well said. I think a lot of folks forget about the brake proportioning valve, and since the brakes on a lot of trailers are either non-existant or faulty at best, the tow vehicle brakes are too important to be screwing around with.

Also, it's important to remember that even though tongue weight is one of the major issues, and needs to be controlled, a trailer with too much weight to the rear is a very dangerous proposition as well. even a relatively "neutral" load on the tongue can cause trailers to wander and act very strange. I think the old idea of at least 60% of the weight in front of the axle(s) center is the safe bet.

Great point on the weight of the truck that is transferred to the rear when loaded with trailer!

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

Wow, thanks for the in-depth answer Ray. That pretty much answers my questions. I have been thinking of a used motorhome to pull the ATVs with, but a friend asked if I checked into Toy Haulers. Which is why my post. 24ft is a bit smaller than we would like. So, looks like I will be searching for a 28-32ft motorhome for our needs. Either that or an F350.

Welcome. Glad you appreciated the in-depth analysis...overloaded tow vehicles and sway-prone trailers that are really too long for the tow vehicle (keep in mind that an AC Tundra only has a 128 inch wheelbase) have been the cause of many, many RV accidents. Nearly all RV towing type accidents, in fact.

But just saying "don't" is really nothing more than offering an opinion...you've got to get into the actual physics to understand the why. And so the long answer.

Especially considering that you have a heavy topper on your truck (which even further reduces your tow capacity), I think you'll be making a very wise decision to get a mid length motorhome (with a good size engine, hopefully diesel) as the tow vehicle for a trailer full of ATVS. Or the F350 (or even F450) if you want a sizeable toy hauler (one that has decent sized living quarters as well as a garage big enough for multiple ATVs). A few months ago, TrailerLife magazine did a review on such a toy hauler and they chose an F450 as the tow vehicle. After I looked at their numbers for total weight and tongue weight under various loading scenarios, I could easily see why they went with the humongous F450...their tongue weights were in the 1400 lb range when they had full tanks but nothing in the garage.

[thombiz]

Hi, I pull a '97 Airstream 25 ft. Excella. Ready to travel weight is about 5400 lbs.. I've towed it about 20,000 miles in the past 18 months including a lot of mountainous travel. The Tundra is up to the task, but a very big part of it is the aerodynamic design of the Airstream. I have also pulled a square bodied Nash 16 with the Tundra and it was a bear to pull. It wasn't the weight, it was the wind resistance. It pulled like a 28 foot trailer. Frankly, I would want a 3/4 ton diesel to pull just about any square bodied trailer over 16 feet. Enjoy!

[Nevadastars]

I can relate to a swaying trailer, and its no fun. A few years ago, I bought a car (71 Dodge Demon340) about 200 miles from my house. At the time, I had a 2wd club cab 95 5.2 Dodge Dakota. A friend of mine loaned me his two axle trailer to go get the car. Since the Demon had no engine in it, and a lot of parts in the trunk, that trailer got REAL tail-happy. Anything over 55mph, and it wanted to jump lanes. It was no fun, and I will never forget it. Three hours of solid nail-biting on the way home. Anyway, just thought I would share my little event with you.

[jayr517]

I have a TT that's 4,000 lbs dry. Fully loaded, including options, it's just shy of 5,500 lbs. I wouldn't go a pound heavier with it and still feel like I could drive it safely (i.e. have enough acceleration, handling and braking control).

[HBjeff]

i looked around at toy haulers, there are none big enough for any toys that the tundra can handle

[TRDBANDIT]

Wow!!! lots of info here. I was looking to buy a toy hauler in the next couple of weeks.. 24ft American Freedom. After reading all this info time to reconsider size. By the way who makes a good quality weight distribution thingy? Thanks

[FLTundra06]

With a pull behind trailer and the WDh with a anti-sway bar you can pull most of the new light weight trailer up to 28 ft I would think. You need to check the trailer weight ect. before you buy one. If you go 5th wheel you will be pushing about anything I would think. If you want a 5th wheel you need to buy at least a 3/4 ton truck.

[BLACKDC]

i pull a 2008 superlite FS2300 with my 05 DC. tows great, little over 6000lbs loaded.

[04DSGTUNDRA]

I run a 24' Fleetwood. Ideally though I would love to run a 23' or 25' Extreme UltraLight. Very light toyhauler, but plenty of room.

[dsrtrcr01]

Originally Posted by HBjeff

i looked around at toy haulers, there are none big enough for any toys that the tundra can handle

I found the same issue. Was looking for a trailer my Tundra could pull and have 16 foot of cargo space. Non existant. So I got this. Light and fits my Toy.

8 foot living space then the front opens to have a bed larger then a king size bed. The cargo area is 14 feet so I just let the truck hang off the back a little. The weight of the truck is over the axles and the living space ads plenty of tongue weight so i have no sway issues. My truck is stock and I use a WD Hitch and a prodigy brake controller. There is a zip on room for the cargo area to enclose it that I may be buying to. It has a bathroom (Toilet, shower), 2 burner stove, fridge and cabinets.

My main issue when towing is not power, stopping or sway it is the drag created by the height of the trailer. I can get going quickly but once I hit a certain speed I can feel the wind slowing me down.

[d-lo]

Originally Posted by TRDBANDIT

Wow!!! lots of info here. I was looking to buy a toy hauler in the next couple of weeks.. 24ft American Freedom. After reading all this info time to reconsider size. By the way who makes a good quality weight distribution thingy? Thanks

I would say the best WDH is the Equal-i-zer, which combines weight distribution and sway control in one mechanism.
Equal-i-zer® Hitch - The “American Original” with 4-Point Sway Control™ and Weight Distribution