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Old 10-28-2004, 05:20 PM
m0000 m0000 is offline
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Default My last Toyota (drive train vibration)

After 3 months and dozens of phone calls I was finally able to get the District Serivce and Parts Rep for Toyota to drive with me on the highway, so I could demonstrate the drive train rumbling I've been experiencing. I believe this gentlemen must have studied law because he was remarkably adept at saying "tough luck, buddy" in several hundred words. Mine is a '03 Sequoia with ~32k miles, and I've noticed this rumbling since about 15k, and determined it was a serious drive train issue at ~24k.

I clearly stated that this vibration is noticable at highway speeds when the car is warm ~50mph but that I probably couldn't convince them they had felt anything until I get to 80mph - I've noticed a pattern with Toyota employees not being able to hear or feel anything wrong with their vehicles during the warranty period. He noted on the Toyota file that "CUST STATES NOISE AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS ABOVE 80MPH." A bit of a twist isn't it?

He arrived 10 minutes late without apology but commented on my punctuality (?!) I took him on county highways where we could get to 65 mph max and I could feel the vibration above 50mph, even though the drive train wasn't yet hot. The vibration is similar to driving on grooved pavement - a very distinct frequency that grows stronger 1) when the drive train is hot and 2) when the vehicles goes faster.

Although I could feel that distinct rumble at 50mph, he claimed he could not. Nor could he feel it at 60 or 70mph. It took 20 minutes to get to the highway where I could get to a speed where it would be impossible for him to deny feeling that rumbling. At 75 it was glaringly obvious and he still claimed he could feel nothing. 80 no. 85 no. I asked him if he was serious, if he really couldn't feel it and he said "I don't feel anything abnormal." I had to get it to 95mph before he would admit that he could feel it, by that time it was not just vibrating the car but quite audible and shaking the contents of the car. I'm not certain he admitted to feeling it then because it was so fantastically obvious and he was beginning to appear absurd, or because he was scared of that speed. Ironically, because he apparently had some sort of sensory deficiency that prevented him from observing the obvious, I had to drive over the speed limit to literally force him to feel it. His response was to write in my Toyota file that I was advised to obey all speed laws! Also, because he had an unusually, no, a remarkably hard time noticing a obvious vibration from the drive train, he could put in the Toyota record that this was specifically a "high speed" phenomenon, when in actuality it occurs as low as ~45mph. He can say he only felt rumbling at high speeds because 1) there is no rule requiring that he be honest, and 2) there is no way to prove he's being deceptive. Pretty handy isn't it? Toyota! Oh what a feeling!

An earlier drive with a Toyota service rep to 65 mph resulted in admission of the vibration immediately, even before the drive train warmed up.

I had a very clear discussion with the service rep after this where I made sure he defined all of Toyota's terminology. Ultimately he admitted that Toyota will identify things that are "broken" (really and truly broken) entirely at their own discretion. What this means is that if you're drive your Toyota out of the showroom and the engine falls out on the floor, it may not technically be "broken" to Toyota. This may simply be "characterstic" of that particular vehicle. He also pointed out that "sounds" and "smells" weren't covered under Toyota's warranties regardless of the fact that my Sequoia's problem is a vibration or rumbling. Since my particular case is a "vibration", they will only repair it if it is due to a "failure" of one of their parts. So the question now is what constitutes a failure? I compared this vibration to the vibration that occurs when a CV joint fails (yet continues to function) which they would repair under warranty as a true "failure." Well, this is where their creative interpretation of "broken" comes into play. Toyota will see the CV joint as broken and therefore making noise, yet not yet necessarily have fallen to pieces at your feet. But this does not apply to a differential or drive shaft. If it's a differential rumbling or vibrating, perhaps even transmission or transfer case, then this is classified as a "characterstic." Of course it appears that things become "characteristics" instead of "failures" as the price to repair them goes higher. I told him that had I experienced this "characteristic" when I test drove two other 03 Sequoias, I would never have bought one, and I'm sure most everyone else wouldn't either.

No response.

Hence, this is my last Toyota.

I'll pay to have the differential replaced at a reputable 3rd party shop that can turn this vehicle into an actual 4wd truck. Everytime I change the differential oil, metal fragments come out, and they're open differentials so we can only ever have 2 wheels drive at a time.

I asked why there was a "sulfur smell TSB" if there was nothing technically broken, he went into a rather lengthy technical definition of what consitutes an enhancement to the customer's driving experience with an adjustment or modification while still maintaining Toyota's performance specifications. Did I mention he appeared to be an attorney? The sulfur smell TSB actually fixes the smell of the exhaust, and not the huge exhaust leak into the cabin. Maybe that's why they were willing to fix the smell, so they wouldn't have to fix the exhaust leak.

He implied that this rumbling in a very new $40,000 car was simply an issue of my errant expectations, not the result of a flaw in their vehicle.

He suggested that if I can reproduce that rumbling at a lower speed (??) after warming up on a long trip, I could bring it into another dealer. Of course, this would be moot because the other Dealer can simply say "that's normal" too. In fact, I ask you guys, what do you think the consumer's recourse is to having a manufacturer claim ANY defect is simply normal and requires no repair?
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