Dianne's SoCal all new 2010 4Runner availability - cars coming soon!

[Dianne]

Oh Backwards TUNDRA LOVE guy... what we need is a hybrid 4Runner. That would be a really sweet ride, frankly. The Lexus V8 with hybrid punch.

It's cool - they are not picking on me. I have driven this new 2010 V6 and it's quite a ride. We have 2 other 4Runners in the family and I can see some similarity in style and looks, but this car's ride is remarkable. And, the seats... what a huge difference in comfort now.

I know you're all clamoring for the V8 but the truth is, they do not sell that well in V8. They just did not. Folks are too worried about gas prices as they fluctuate and Toyota's just decided to plan for it.

Di

Originally Posted by EVOL ARDNUT

JUST don't buy them and tell TOYOTA why regarding 4.6 liter motor, oh and leave DIANE ALONE!

A 4 cylinder is a def no go in this heavy suv, bean counter decided that and not truck guy. That is for sure!

[petrocelly]

I will be looking forward for the new 4runner, and I'm definitely going to test drive it asap as it arrivew into my stealership.

But from what I red so far, with no V8 or 6speed AT im going to belive that it would be a fail and most buyers will runaway into Highlander segment.

Hope Toyota will get guts to put V8 with all the expected goodies into a mid or early-refresh for the 4runner '10

[Dianne]

I don't consider sharing different points of view as being beat up on. I'm OK guys. I have been selling Toyotas since 1980 so I have gained the ability to see a criticism of our product as just what it is: criticism of the product and not myself.

Having sold Toyota since before we even had a 4Runner, and then watching the vehicle debut as a LARGE Tacoma with a removable roof and back seats that were wedged under a large roll-bar .. well, 4Runner's come a long way.

The only advice I would offer here is to wait for them to come out, and take a closer look. Drive one. I'm sure most folks will really like the new one. If you don't, there are alternatives. The technology in this one is really amazing, as is the ride and the comfort.

Cars and trucks are a lot of money these days. We all deserve to spend that hard earned cash and be comfortable as well as safe. And, have an up to date car or truck with all of the technology offered currently.

This world is made up of all sorts of opinions, and everyone's entitled to theirs. It's not the opinion that often fires folks up - it's how that opinion is delivered. Nice or nasty. If it's coming out of YOU, whether thru typing or words, you have the ability to share your opinion nice, or share 'not nice'. It's always your choice.

Anyway, the debut of the new 4Runner is delayed slightly... talk about anticlimactic. They won't be out till around Thanksgiving now. All are held up at port due to a stop-lamp part being late in shipping to where the cars are prepped and apparently, this is a legally mandated item (part of the rear stop-lamp) that can't be jury-rigged. So, we wait.

Dianne Whitmire
Mother of a US Marine
Lance Corporal T.A. Whitmire

[Coal Dragger]

Originally Posted by Dianne

Oh Backwards TUNDRA LOVE guy... what we need is a hybrid 4Runner. That would be a really sweet ride, frankly. The Lexus V8 with hybrid punch.

It's cool - they are not picking on me. I have driven this new 2010 V6 and it's quite a ride. We have 2 other 4Runners in the family and I can see some similarity in style and looks, but this car's ride is remarkable. And, the seats... what a huge difference in comfort now.

I know you're all clamoring for the V8 but the truth is, they do not sell that well in V8. They just did not. Folks are too worried about gas prices as they fluctuate and Toyota's just decided to plan for it.

Di

A hybrid SUV has it's place, but that place is not yet in an off road oriented vehicle. Electric motors in hybrid systems (or any other) are sensitive to heat build up just like any other mechanical device. Unfortunately in the world of 4X4's all that slow off road work will demand quite a bit of torque output without a lot of air flow to aid in cooling the electric motors. This is one of the reasons that Toyota/Lexus do not recommend rock crawling, mud bogging, or otherwise off roading a Highlander Hybrid, or a Lexus RX450h. While cooling issues are not a problem with a vehicle like the Prius since it has the cooling system in parallel with the IC engine cooling system and everything is up front where the plumbing is, on a 4X4 this is a real challenge. You either get stuck with need airflow to cool the electric motors (ala Highlander/RX hybrid) or you get to try to plumb coolant lines to all the motors at the corners of the vehicle which adds cost, complexity, and for an off road vehicle: vulnerability!

If Toyota really wanted to improve the fuel economy of the 4Runner and still have the ability to really do the off road thing, what they need to offer is a turbo diesel. I will still also make the argument that the new 4.6L V8 with the 6 speed behind it would be within 1 MPG average of the new 4.0L V6. Once the new Lexus GX460 shows up this fall we'll have confirmation of that, but I'll wager that I'm correct!

As for the V8 4Runners not selling well in your market I don't doubt you. I sold Toyota trucks and SUV's for a time before moving on to BMW (have since left the car business, now I play with really really big hybrids for a living ). In the market I sold in, the 4Runner sales split about 50/50 between the 4.0 V6 and the 4.7 V8. However that was a more rural area where our customers would be more likely to be towing, hauling, hunting, camping, or otherwise using the "truck" abilities of the 4Runner. Different markets will have different consumer uses and desires.

I am glad to hear that the comfort issue of the 4Runner has been addressed though, it always seemed to have an awkward seating position in the old one. A tall vehicle with no head room, and seat bottoms practically on the floor....

Anyhow my own hunch is that Toyota didn't offer the V8 in the new 4Runner since they knew that price wise a well equipped V8 4Runner Limited would come in somewhere in the $45-$46K range, and they don't want competition with the new GX460 which will probably have a base price of around $47-$48K for basically the same stuff. Just my theory.

[jts1207]

Originally Posted by Coal Dragger

A hybrid SUV has it's place, but that place is not yet in an off road oriented vehicle. Electric motors in hybrid systems (or any other) are sensitive to heat build up just like any other mechanical device. Unfortunately in the world of 4X4's all that slow off road work will demand quite a bit of torque output without a lot of air flow to aid in cooling the electric motors. This is one of the reasons that Toyota/Lexus do not recommend rock crawling, mud bogging, or otherwise off roading a Highlander Hybrid, or a Lexus RX450h. While cooling issues are not a problem with a vehicle like the Prius since it has the cooling system in parallel with the IC engine cooling system and everything is up front where the plumbing is, on a 4X4 this is a real challenge. You either get stuck with need airflow to cool the electric motors (ala Highlander/RX hybrid) or you get to try to plumb coolant lines to all the motors at the corners of the vehicle which adds cost, complexity, and for an off road vehicle: vulnerability!

If Toyota really wanted to improve the fuel economy of the 4Runner and still have the ability to really do the off road thing, what they need to offer is a turbo diesel. I will still also make the argument that the new 4.6L V8 with the 6 speed behind it would be within 1 MPG average of the new 4.0L V6. Once the new Lexus GX460 shows up this fall we'll have confirmation of that, but I'll wager that I'm correct!

As for the V8 4Runners not selling well in your market I don't doubt you. I sold Toyota trucks and SUV's for a time before moving on to BMW (have since left the car business, now I play with really really big hybrids for a living ). In the market I sold in, the 4Runner sales split about 50/50 between the 4.0 V6 and the 4.7 V8. However that was a more rural area where our customers would be more likely to be towing, hauling, hunting, camping, or otherwise using the "truck" abilities of the 4Runner. Different markets will have different consumer uses and desires.

I am glad to hear that the comfort issue of the 4Runner has been addressed though, it always seemed to have an awkward seating position in the old one. A tall vehicle with no head room, and seat bottoms practically on the floor....

Anyhow my own hunch is that Toyota didn't offer the V8 in the new 4Runner since they knew that price wise a well equipped V8 4Runner Limited would come in somewhere in the $45-$46K range, and they don't want competition with the new GX460 which will probably have a base price of around $47-$48K for basically the same stuff. Just my theory.

If V8 4Runner sales accounted for more than 5 percent id be shocked. It wasnt cost effective for the 4Runner. It will be in the new Lexus GX460

[Coal Dragger]

Originally Posted by jts1207

If V8 4Runner sales accounted for more than 5 percent id be shocked. It wasnt cost effective for the 4Runner. It will be in the new Lexus GX460

When I was selling Toyota vehicles when the last gen 4Runner came out I would venture that 40-50% of my 4Runner sales were the V8. That is of course anecdotal so take it for what it is worth.

There is no way I would buy a near 5000lb 4X4 that only had 278lb-ft of torque available, and at 4,400RPM's no less. Most of the road tests I have read have commented that the vehicle needs the V8 option. Toyota is going to have to learn this one the hard way.

[canddmeyer]

After owning the V6, I wouldn't buy anything but the V8 for a replacement. Everyone I know who has the V8 loves it, but while V6 owners are happy, they're not thrilled. Just my opinion, but I find the added weight of the V8 smoothes out the ride and the 4.7 is a quieter engine, not to mention the throttle response is fantastic versus my V6. Hopefully the 2010 V6 will sell, but for those of us eventually looking to step up Toyota has taken us out of the market and put us in Sequoia's although we want 4Runners.

In a somewhat related matter I recently purchased a Dodge Ram, and I didn't get the 3.7 V6 or 4.7 V8, instead I got the biggest available engine, the 5.7 V8 Hemi, which btw gets better highway mpg than my V6 4Runner. So all I can do is recommend to Dianne that she not stock too many 4Runners. Based on opinions here and elsewhere most previous owners aren't going to step up to the new model until a V8 finds it way into the 4Runner again.

[Coal Dragger]

Originally Posted by canddmeyer

After owning the V6, I wouldn't buy anything but the V8 for a replacement. Everyone I know who has the V8 loves it, but while V6 owners are happy, they're not thrilled. Just my opinion, but I find the added weight of the V8 smoothes out the ride and the 4.7 is a quieter engine, not to mention the throttle response is fantastic versus my V6. Hopefully the 2010 V6 will sell, but for those of us eventually looking to step up Toyota has taken us out of the market and put us in Sequoia's although we want 4Runners.

In a somewhat related matter I recently purchased a Dodge Ram, and I didn't get the 3.7 V6 or 4.7 V8, instead I got the biggest available engine, the 5.7 V8 Hemi, which btw gets better highway mpg than my V6 4Runner. So all I can do is recommend to Dianne that she not stock too many 4Runners. Based on opinions here and elsewhere most previous owners aren't going to step up to the new model until a V8 finds it way into the 4Runner again.

Always get the big stick.

Although you should have bought a Tundra with the 5.7L.....