[Cliffy1]

Ugh... again. Invoice is not cost. Please don't pretend that it is. If you pay $750 over invoice you didn't pay $750 profit. If you get a deal at $750 over "net-net" (invoice minus holdback and WFR), you still didn't pay a $750 profit. The dealer's profit involves a lot more than just what is paid for the vehicle and honestly, its not a consumer's business. Its not even the business of the salesman. Its a decision made by the owner of the dealership and involves how much he pays his salesmen, manager and finance people, how much he spends on advertising, floorplan interest, taxes and how much he pays the legal department. In short, "profit" involves a lot more than you as a customer needs to know about a small business.

So what does invoice mean? It allows you to compare your deal to the deal on a different vehicle at a different dealer. In some cases, a good deal is $750 over invoice. If demand is low, inventories are high and nobody is coming into the store, even $1000 under invoice is a rip-off. Knowing invoice only allows you to compare your deal with another one within your market area, at that time.

Don't be fooled by guys talking about the astounding deal they made last year. You don't know a thing about the circumstances. They may have bought a truck that had been on the lot for 120 days, had 700 miles, been in a color that didn't sell well in that area and he might have caught a manager making a mistake that will never be repeated. You may be looking at a high demand vehicle that's fresh to the lot and easy for them to sell. Its two different deals and you can't compare the two.

Now, as to your specific questions, the fees you listed are all part of the invoice.

TDA is not refunded. Its a real fee that the dealer pays to the regional distributor. Because its a regional fee, most on-line sources don't tell you what it is, but it is real.

WFR and HB are refunded to the dealer at a later date. They are used to cover various expenses associated with the vehicle. Most salesmen are not paid on these amounts.