It's not often I feel the need to actually moderate...for all the drama on the web there are so few situations where I feel it's really necessary to jump in. I draw the line at slander, hearsay, bandwagoneering, and personal drama...particularly when it's an attempt to drag down a good name.
Ian...look man, you blew a fuse. Frankly I'm amazed to see this from you, but it happens to everybody some time or another. I'm shocked you'd try to start a fight with someone trying to help you out, turn your back on an honest apology, or that you'd annihilate a working relationship between a businessman and a customer (or potential friends), trying to turn it to a poor excuse for a bar fight.
Show some class...man up and take a deep breath. Who knows if Camburg will let you have another chance to make this right (any of them), or even another shop in the area who's come across this, but it sounds like people are trying to offer you one.
Dragging this online as you have is barely excusable...I should probably just kill the thread, but I won't...you know that's not my style. I like to leave things like this as examples. I would rather that others who
might end up in the same situation understand this is a poor way of expressing their experiences.
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Originally Posted by Shelbix2020
I think Ian needs to cycle the suspension for himself and see whats up.
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I agree 100% with Shelby, that is the bottom line. And like I said before, take a deep breath and maybe you can talk this out. Right now you've got a truck that's hurting, and nobody in their right mind is gonna take your money until you settle it like a gentleman.
That's my advice to you. Please, please, take it. I'm not trying to be a dick, tho my first reaction was to cook up a burner, and there are a few people who really think somebody needs to read you the riot act...but screw it. You've said your piece, and so has Jerry. I get my say because I'm a moderator here, and because I think you crossed the line on a shop that's treated an awful lot of people very well.
Most importantly, I don't think it needs to end like this...we're men, this is not the playground.
Look at where you started, how you felt at the beginning of this build, and what you've got yourself in to now, and see if you can make it right...because at this point regardless what Camburg may or may not have done, you are the one who's crossed the line.
A few comments...
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Originally Posted by ThirdHorseman
I don't see ANY bandwagoning on either side of this argument.
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Originally Posted by ThirdHorseman
I won't buy from Camburg. They make nice parts, but I find some of their practices unethical.
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I only see yours. But you know, I don't blame you for it...I think you're being fed poor information from a piss-poor source with a rep forged long before any of you joined the TS community. Garbage in, garbage out, right? Not your fault...but I wonder what you're referring to when you say "unethical", because in this tiny little community no right or wrong goes unnoticed, and while I'm sure nobody is completely squeaky clean--we're human after all--I think it's ironic seeing as how I'm pretty certain I know the source of your false impression.
By "unethical", do you mean the shady practice of asking for parts from a builder, then copying the parts for one's own production? Or did you mean building one's reputation by trash-talking any competing shop? Or are you referring to claiming other people's work as one's own? Or providing incorrect information about a competitor's products so as to make one's own sound better?
Because I have
never, ever, seen or heard of anyone at Camburg--particularly Jerry or Scott--do anything like that in years of banter between shops across many forums. They are a class act. Yeah, everyone says "mine's better", but they have never said "theirs suck". They have never provided incorrect information about a competitor, intentionally or ignorantly, to make their own look better. Are you sure you're listening to the right source?
Note I didn't mention any names. You have something bad to say about someone, or names to bring up or verify, keep them to yourself. I won't take away someone's opportunity for a business venture, and if I see that name or references to it on this thread, I'm gonna wipe it clean. It's no more right for me to name names than it is for you to label Camburg as "unethical"...that's airing
someone else's dirty laundry and it doesn't belong here.
I haven't bothered to correct your source of poor information in the few places where that source has slandered Camburg by proxy (through you), but maybe I should. I don't think you have any personal beef with Camburg, just somebody feeding you crap. I see enough trash talk from kids on other forums who know nothing at all about Camburg, have never talked to them, haven't run or even seen their kit, much less looked one over then installed and tested piece by piece, and heaven forbid they actually take time to compare Camburg's design in person to another kit...it's just hearsay, stupid nicknames, blatant ripoffs and a lot of web wheeling by a bunch of twentysomething bros with forty years' experience.
Seeing that kind of BS here is a disgrace and will not be tolerated. Don't ever do it again unless you have a damn good reason and facts to back it up.
That aside...
Ian, bear with me here, take another deep breath, because I think it's worth going through your first post. You're done, but for the benefit of people who might make the same personal foul or get the wrong idea, I'm digging in. Don't take offense, it's not intended that way...but it's gotta be done, I can't just stand around and watch this happen.
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1: 1G a month ahead of time to get parts in...no big deal
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You're absolutely right, no big deal. This is normal. Expect this from any shop.
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2:had to call mutiple times after they had my money to get truck in...really not a big deal.
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Dunno if you're familiar with how most well-known shops operate but that's
also normal, particularly if you're asking for a build around competition season, which you did. If you're persistent or have a sweet deal, maybe you get bumped up the queue ahead of guys like me,
which is exactly what happened. Be thankful.
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3: After the truck was in there they said 3 days, ended up being 8 days...inbetween all that they told me they didn't have the right springs and could not find the axles...(what did i give them a 1000 bucks ahead of time for?)
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Didn't you ask during Baja season? Did they have people in the shop familiar with your ticket, or were you pushing the one or two guys holding down the fort? If you push at the wrong time, you're not gonna get good results. You're gonna have to be really, really, helpful and understanding for the one guy who's doing his damnedest to make you happy.
Been there, done that.
Once you've described machining and welding specs along with dimensions and descriptions over the phone to the one guy still at the shop who's never seen your build sheet before but he's willing to make your parts and drive them down same day four hours from you at ten o'clock at night, then you can be
thankful, but you
still don't get to complain. I can't honestly count how many times a project has run over...it seems like there's always something.
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4: Finally pick the truck up on a monday night around 10pm, and no lights & blower motor for heater or ac does not work ...and no limit straps were put on (a pretty big deal)
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See above paragraph, digest Brandon's comments, and know your own build.
The limit straps are
not a big deal on this kit...they are a secondary safety measure. The shock is still the limiting factor, just like it is on a stock Tundra. If anyone thinks I'm incorrect, look over the Camburg website or call them directly. It is not simply a rebadged SAW, and thinking of it as nothing more than a name change does both Camburg and SAW a disservice. If you still don't believe me, cycle your suspension.
Your electrical system has nothing to do with an LT kit, and if they'd forgot to disco the battery before welding you'd likely have a blown ECU. Do anything else electrical lately? Mess with the stereo, speakers, lighting, towing harness, hardwired radar detector, remote start, anything like that, around the same time? My aftermarket towing harness faulted a while back and made the reverse lights flash with the left turn signal. Really bizarre.
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5: Truck goes into toyota dealership to fix light & blower motor...i played stupid and it all got fixed for free (no big deal...or is it)
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Glad to hear it's fixed. But if it's not a big deal, why bring it up here, 5 months after you picked up the truck from Camburg in the first place? A guy's gotta vent, but very unlikely this has anything to do with your build, so no need to associate it with Camburg.
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6: truck goes back a week later to have the 600lb springs swapped out for 700lb springs & limit straps put on that they forgot to do the first time & the truck finaly alighned. (no big deal...(just my time without the truck once again & my only vehicle)
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700# springs...damn. Listen to your builder. For the record I run 700# x 16" but I have a good 500# of trail armor, if not more, over your truck...plus tools, fluids, and gear. It's stiff as an unladen daily driver. Swallow your pride and start with their advice, they are not trying to screw you. Not even sure why you posted this, since I hear
you went back asking about long 600# springs after
you demanded 700# springs in the beginning, regardless what was on your truck in the first place. If you're wondering why I'd know something like this, believe me when I say I've had a few very long conversations with the guys at Camburg about spring rate and done a lot of searching and reading at SCT about what you're all running and why. I almost went with 600# x 18" and might still do it...700# is great at trail weight and 600# should be beautiful unloaded as a daily driver.
As for your only vehicle...this is
my only vehicle. For the past eight or nine months it's been in various stages of "parts all over the floor" and every day I had a plan, sometimes for
months straight. Your transportation is your problem...they might rush your build a little but it's your problem, not theirs. Ever. They just build...your life is your own.
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7: They ****in trashed all my stock parts...after i told them just leave the the co's in the back seat & i'll pick the rest up when i bring the truck back for the alignment. I didn't want the truck parts sitting in the back of my truck at night over there.
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They're probably just in a wrecking yard somewhere, and I bet you could get them back if you ask nice. Most shops don't keep parts...the ones worth reusing go to a yard, and stuff that's not worth anything (worn bushings, carpet, etc) gets thrown away. I bet your parts are just sitting somewhere, and I bet if you make this right you can get 'em back if you really want them. I bet if you asked Jerry he could even get you a set from another build where the owner doesn't want to keep the stock parts. Again, if this was such an issue, why didn't you bring it up 5 months ago when you took delivery?
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8: After all said and done i started to notice a sqeek / grinding noise...took a look underneeth the truck and they lifted a 6k truck up by my custom made aluminum skid plate & bent it all to **** (****in idiots!) bent it all the way up into the front diff mounts.
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This might sting, but aluminum has absolutely no place on a heavy rig run hard, as a primary skid plate. Even 3/16" steel plate deforms. Also, I'm pretty sure guys that design and build kits like this
would know better.
Post a few well-lit pictures in your gallery. If you don't have room, I'll host them for you. A floor jack leaves a distinct mark and deformation pattern that will be obvious on aluminum. Rocks, dunes, and snow make a different mark. A floor jack stuffed under a mark where a rock made the dent
first also makes a distinct mark, so watch your ***, because the current pictures appear to show an undamaged skid plate. If you were flogging it so hard to dent your lower control arms off the stops, you know as well as I that your
aluminum main skid was inches from being a bulldozer blade, and if you're moving fast over sand you could hit it, deform it, and never hear it.
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After all this being said there are minor details that were left out (that don't benefit burg at all. Not 1 ****in apologie for any of it...only 1 month later after me & jerry had it out over the phone did he apologize. I was not looking for any compensation other than my stock parts back, but didn't even get that back (****ing bull****)
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Sorry if I'm getting a little harsh, it's not easy keeping a cool head through your first post. Burner aside, always keep in mind
customer service is a two-way street. If you yank somebody's chain, they're not gonna want to work with you.
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9:Will i ever buy another thing from burg? (no)...will i ever let them touch my truck again? (**** no!)
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When you post a burner like this, you risk every other shop hearing about it (if they haven't already), and then your concern will be whether or not
anybody will want to touch your truck, much less the guys who
could make it right, seeing as how you insulted
all of them here.
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With all this being said...things should not turn out this way with the amount of money i spent with them.
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You spent what, five grand? And I hear you got a real good hookup for being practically a friend of the shop? And this post is where you take it? See my response about customer service, remember what I said first, and come back when you're seven or eight in to completely custom parts designed over the phone and email (not once in person!), with multiple revisions, one accidental shop mistake, and you are the assembly monkey and you're on a deadline. Then you can get a little Type-A,
as long as you're not yanking anyone's chain, and as long as it's not your standard MO, people will be
happy to help you solve your build problems.
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Oh ya, first day out with new suspension both lower control arms are dented due to solid mount bump stops that are way to long. Not just my guess, was told by a couple different suspension companies.
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You posted
all this because of that. Nobody can be certain if that's correct until you take Shelby's advice. Best thing you can do now is come correct to the Camburg guys and maybe, just maybe, they'll let you back in the door...and if it's
not their fault, be prepared to suck it up. If you ask for a soft ride for the street, you're gonna lose the ability to mitigate hard hits in the dirt, and you should know with any driving experience that hard hits come from a lot more than jumping. Solve the problem like a man, don't air laundry you may have had a hand in getting dirty.
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Hows that for customer service.
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Totally different from mine. When I called they didn't know me from the next guy, I didn't have a buddy deal like you did. No perks for me, except asking about and being offered a discount for nothing more than having a username on TTORA. I got my parts, I got them just in time, without drama. Sorry for the burn, but you think you had a rough time?
You don't know nothin'. Through all my install they were helpful even though they were probably totally sick of my daily phone calls by the time it was done. You were able to drive up to their shop, walk away and let them deal with everything.
Customer service is a two way street. Be a good customer, you get good service. Be a Type-A kind of guy and you'll end up trying to start fights and posting drama online.
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Originally Posted by DocWard
It sounds like you need to figure out where else you can post this.
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Absolutely right. You're done posting it here. If you have solutions, if you're gonna be a gentleman, if you're gonna make it right, then by all means sort it out here. But no more garbage on this forum. I sincerely hope I've been able to play devil's advocate and avoid taking either side. If I'm on your case (because I am), it's because you crossed the line first, and you are the only one who can make it right.
I haven't seen drama like this on TS in something like five years. No more.
It doesn't feel right doing this, but for the first time in...what, seven years?...I'm exercising my right as a moderator to be a dick, get in the last word and close the thread without further explanation or discussion. If anybody has something mature to post, for example they want to make this right and they want it known here, then feel free to send me a very short PM (ie "Please open the thread") and I'll open the thread for you. If anybody sends me crap I'm just gonna ignore it. If I open the thread and somebody posts crap, I'm deleting it and you're off the island.
Ian I seriously hope you work it out with Camburg. It sounds like they really cut you a good deal and it's crazy to see all this. They're good guys. Be a gentleman and I bet they'll
still help you out
Very, very sincerely,
Sean
Re: My recent experience with camburg
I must say I am very impressed with the way TS members have responded on this thread . I don't see ANY bandwagoning on either side of this argument. 
couldn't be met. 
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