Help! Alpine HU sounds WORSE than factory radio!

[Waveman]

So I recently "upgraded" my factory 3 in 1 CD changer to an Alpine 7873 head unit. Mainly I did this for the benefit of the 4V sub pre-out, built in crossovers, and the chance to ditch the factory amp (the 7873 has the 60W V-Drive amp).

I used the Scosche TA-02 harness connector, so speaker connections are same as factory, but power is coming straight from the battery, and I've used a direct chassis ground (to accomodate the internal amp). I'm also using factory speakers, front and rear.

After installing the unit, at first it sounded good until after playing a variety of music it became painfully obvious that the sound quality was poorer than what I was used to from the factory unit. Namely, vocals sounded tinny (slight AM-radio effect), and mid-bass (like bass guitar) sounded thin and the overall sound lacked fullness. Highs above 10k and lows below 100Hz seemed strong, but it lacked "meat" in between. Thinking that the settings just needed to be tweaked, I've spent the last week adjusting crossover freqs, and the tone controls in an effort to get that midrange back, and it just isn't happening. Finally, thinking I'd lost all sanity (after all, how could an Alpine sound WORSE than factory???), I put the factory 3 in 1 back to do an A/B comparison, and it was like night and day. The factory unit wins hands down - vocals and bass sound MUCH fuller and even mid-low bass is stronger. This is with all tone controls set to 0.

What gives? After putting the Alpine back in after the factory radio test, it sounds like the Alpine is attenuating roughly everything in the 200Hz to 2000Hz band. This is VERY disappointing. I've checked the polarity of the speaker leads, and it's correct, which is no surprise because using the Scosche harness makes it pretty braindead. Do I have a bogus HU (I got it used)? Is this just how Alpines sound? Is the factory unit BOOSTING certain frequencies to compensate for the factory speakers (which would seem weird to me)?

Please help, as I need to know whether I should sell the Alpine and get a different HU...

Thanks!

[JeffD]

I ran into the opposite - I put in infinity perfect seperates with the stock HU and alpine amp, and they sound like total crap. I put in an alpine 7987, and they sound very good. I think there is some equalization that is being done either in the head unit, or the stock amp to compensate for the interior of the truck, and the speaker quality. Overall the stock setup sounds pretty good, but if you upgrade - you need to upgrade everything. The other thing with the alpine is the MX settings, if you have the MX turned on it fills in some regions with something like a delay to make low quality mp3's sound better. Make sure that is disabled for a flat response. I also found with the alpine that the first time it was set up, even though the equalizer said 'flat', it wasn't really flat until I changed the settings away and then back to flat.

[Waveman]

you need better speakers, the problem is not the alpine headunit. check out infinity's offerings.

Thats your problem! Those POS factory speakers are designed to be run at the level of power the factory HU puts out.

I had a feeling people would give that answer Granted, there's a million things I can do to improve the sound apart from the HU, (speakers, sound deadening, etc) but that doesn't change the simple fact that given the SAME speakers, and same wiring setup, simply changing the HU makes a radical difference in sound. A speaker upgrade would be dodging the real issue. The question remains, and would be answered if anyone has changed the HU for aftermarket and kept the factory speakers.

And regardless, no matter how crappy the factory speakers are (and the factory setup really doesn't sound THAT horrible), I've done my listening tests at mid to low volumes to account for the difference in power, and I really can't believe that the speakers are to blame for the huge difference in response when hooked up to two different HU's.

I think there is some equalization that is being done either in the head unit, or the stock amp to compensate for the interior of the truck, and the speaker quality. Overall the stock setup sounds pretty good, but if you upgrade - you need to upgrade everything.

I would think it strange if there were any EQ going on in the factory amp, but then stranger things have happened. If that's the case, then what I really need is an aftermarket EQ, not better speakers...?

I don't mean to dismiss your replies, but to be honest I've already thought of most of these things... I appreciate all the input received so far!

[Gilley]

It might be possible that the stock HU has some type of EQ built in to accomodate the deficiencies in the stock paper speakers.

Instead of spending money on an EQ, buy some good quality aftermarket speakers. You will probably end up replacing the stock speakers anyway beacuse they probably won't be able to handle the power from the Alpine HU for too long before frying.

IMO, an EQ with stock speakers would be more of a bandaid to for the problem. I have an ald Alpine HU running through a good amp and good speakers (Boston Acoustics) and I think the audio system rocks.

[Ripper]

Originally posted by hovisimo
also the front speaker/tweeter combination is 6ohms and the rear speakers are 4 ohms, that might have something to do with it,

I think you have this backwards.

Rear speakers are 6 Ohm and fron sepakers are 4 Ohm. Trust me, I just replaced mine a few weeks ago.

Not that it makes a lot of difference. They are still cheap speakers.

Upgrade the speakers and the problem will be solved.

[Waveman]

Alright, alright, you guys are relentless I went ahead and pulled the trigger on some new components - but if you guys are wrong about this you owe me a six pack of my favorite microbrew!

I was going to wait on new speakers until I could afford a set of Focals, but I found this deal - a brand new pair of CDT CL61 components at half price. Doing the research revealed that pretty much everyone who has tried these loves them, and they compare favorably to the Focal polyglass series. Plus they'll nicely match my 2 CDT MS-80 subs in the Q Logic box

I'll keep you all posted as to how things sound once they go in.

[JnEsPappa]

After changing the speakers, do the sound deadening at least to your doors. The additional midbass will impress you. I recently deadened the doors in my wife's car and she had to re-EQ everything to adjust for the more robust sounding mids.

Caution: more relentlessness follows.
Do it, Do it, Do it, Do it, Do it, Do it


Edit: Hey Ryan, I like your avatar. It ranks right up there with the inspirational sig. line you had a couple of weeks ago.

[Waveman]

Yeah I'm definitely planning on deadening. I'll probably go with a roll of RAAMat and start out doing the door skins, but it's gonna be a while before I have the time and $$ to do this. So I'll just run the new components without deadening for a while and see what kind of improvement it is over stock. The speakers should be arriving by the weekend, so it looks I've got a fun little weekend project ahead. I'll be doing the window track mod as well I imagine - the reports of mounting depth for the CL61's vary from 2 7/16" to 2 7/8" - both of which should be do-able with the right number of washers (I hope!) I'm hoping not to have to make a custom baffle for them, but we'll see.

I've already got 2 CDT MS-80 8" subs in the Q-Logic box, and I'm REALLY happy with them. The only issue is that they aren't quite getting enough juice. I'm running them in bridged mode off a Soundstream D50 amp, which gives me about 100W peak. The subs will do 200W peak, so I'm going to upgrade the amp at some point in the future...

[jdinh127]

so what do you guys reccomend for my 03 tundra? What kind of setups are you guys running?? Also, how much have you spent? Im planning on just getting a nice hu with new speakers, no subs