I just bought a 2000 Tundra with 120k on it and it felt like my rear brakes don't really do much when I have the e-brake fully pressed. I haven't tried adjusting it, but I've been pulling the wheels and taking a look at the pads to see where I am. When peering through the rear view hole I have plenty of pad left and I'm not having any issues other than the week e-brake.
When I pulled off the rear right wheel I noticed a bunch of oil all over the drum and inside of the wheel, I also noticed a layer of oil on the inside of the drum coating the side of the pads (when viewed from the little peep hole.)
Also, I can't seem to get the drum off, seems like it's rusted on. What is the best way to get a drum off when hitting it lightly with a rubber hammer all over, and trying to tap it from the view hole doesn't seem to be working?
Are all those small holes near the lugs threaded? They don't seem to be but maybe they are dirty. If they are, what size bolt do I need? Is there a special tool to remove a drum?
If I am leaking rear diff oil, how big of a job is that for me to do myself? Do I need any special tools?
Jeff,
This is a rear axle seal leak and a pretty bad one. You will need to replace the shoes, axle seal and axle bearing as they are likely flushed of their permanent packed lubricate.The wheel cylinder may also be damaged as the grease will swell the rubber parts. The drum could also be damaged as the greasy shoes can overheat spot on the drum surface causing "hot shots", raised areas that will not machine out.
You can do this job yourself but will need to take the axle to a machine shop to have the bearings pressed on and off.
The holes in the drums are for removal. Use some metric bolts to pull the drum, I believe these are 8 mm.
Mike
__________________
“The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them” (Albert Einstein) Moderator Brake Forum
Jeff,
This is a rear axle seal leak and a pretty bad one. You will need to replace the shoes, axle seal and axle bearing as they are likely flushed of their permanent packed lubricate.The wheel cylinder may also be damaged as the grease will swell the rubber parts. The drum could also be damaged as the greasy shoes can overheat spot on the drum surface causing "hot shots", raised areas that will not machine out.
You can do this job yourself but will need to take the axle to a machine shop to have the bearings pressed on and off.
The holes in the drums are for removal. Use some metric bolts to pull the drum, I believe these are 8 mm.
Mike
Mike,
Thanks so much for helping me on this! Is this a common problem with the 2000 tundras? Is it possible that the after-market wheels caused this or is it just something that happens on a truck with 120k on it?
I found some service records on this.
Looks like at 104K the previous owner had them replace both bearings and seals due to leaking. Here is what they re-installed
1 Shoe Kit, Brake
2 Seals Type D Oil
2 Ring-O
2 Rotor Skid Contr
4 Retainer RR axle
2 Ring Shaft Snap
2 Gasket Brake Oil
1 Bearing Radial B
2 Seal Type K Oil
2 Wiper Insert B4
Sounds like the put on a new right rear drum because the tech damaged it.
This does not surprise me, seems that once these seal start to leak it hard to get them resealed. This is of no fault but the technicians doing the job. If your sloppy and careless it will leak again. This is why, with a little instruction, you are better off doing it yourself. I find that a unskilled owner if many more times observant and careful then a tech that's in a big hurry to get it out of his bay.
Here is some rules for a successfully seal install:
1) Don't damage the seal. There are proper tool to install a seal but if your very careful you can makeshift something. Just make sure its in square and has not been distorted. If your in doubt, get another seal. This is the cheapest part of this job.
2) Using a little sealer around the outside of the seal won't hurt. Matter of fact I recommended it.
3) Lubricate the seal. This is almost always skipped and the seal burns up in a few miles. Use a little white grease on the seal lip and axle.
4) Make sure there is no damage to the surface of the axle that the seal rides on. If there are some minor nicks or scratches use some emery cloth and clean it up. If real bad replace the axle.
5) Be careful not to nick the seal when you slide the axle back in. Most seals that leak right away are damaged when the axle is installed.
One last thing, take the time to completely clean up all the mess. Grease you leave behind can make you think you have a leak latter when you don't.
Follow these rules and you can't go wrong.
Mike
__________________
“The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them” (Albert Einstein) Moderator Brake Forum
If I was going to do this right, how many of these parts should I re-use and how many should I replace? I see two oil seals, and an oil guard. Is is just the outer oil seal that fails?
Does anyone have a link to the details of the TSB Mod where the pressure relief valve is drilled out? I think I read something about that somewhere..
As you see here there are two oil seals. The one it the top illustration is the one that will leak causing the mess. The oil seal on the bottom illustration is there more to keep water and dirt out. Both are important, replace them both. Also replace the O-ring which seals the bearing retainer to the diff housing.
The bearing, which will need replaced is held on with the retainer. Both are friction pressed on and not reusable. The snap ring may be reusable but since it's been off once you may want to go a head and replace it, why take a chance. The gasket the goes on the Oil Deflector will need replaced too.
If you have ABS, get a new speed sensor rotor. Sometimes these can be saved but many times they are damaged when removed. If you see any damage to the teeth or and possible distortion, replace it. This can affect your ABS operation. You can always return it is you don't need it.
Basically all parts you see with a asterisk beside them will need replaced. The one part you can eliminate is the gasket between the drum and axle. This tends to cause more problems then it's worth. Just make sure there is no old gasket material remaining on the axle or drum and use a bit of silicon grease to prevent rust build up.
Mike
__________________
“The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them” (Albert Einstein) Moderator Brake Forum
I can get the Inner Oil seal PN:90316-69001 for 32 dollars from Toyota.
Or I can get a BCA/NATIONAL Part # 1960 Inner rear oil seal from Auto Parts Fast at RockAuto for about 5 dollars. Is there a reason I should go with the Toyota part?
Along the same lines,
the Rear Bearing can be had from Toyota (90363-40068) for 46 dollars. Again I can get a TIMKEN Part # 511031 from Auto Parts Fast at RockAuto for 29 bucks.
Am I taking a gamble buying these other brands, or am I just paying Toyota to add their markup to the same part? I don't think Toyota is in the business of making their own bearings or oil seals, but I could be wrong.....
Thanks for any input... I'm trying to put together a 600 dollar order to completely redo all the brakes on my 00 Tundra..
I have no problem using BCA National or Timken parts. But note, Toyota seal 90310-50001 has been updated to part number 90910-50006. This is a design change so be sure you are getting an equal part.
Mike
__________________
“The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them” (Albert Einstein) Moderator Brake Forum
I have no problem using BCA National or Timken parts. But note, Toyota seal 90310-50001 has been updated to part number 90910-50006. This is a design change so be sure you are getting an equal part.
Mike
Mike,
I'm not sure what you mean with these part numbers,
My previous dealer repair on this job used seals:
Type K 90313-54001
and
Type D 90316-69001
Neither of those are the ones you're referring too here, and I can't find 90910-50006 on any any online parts store..
2) Using a little sealer around the outside of the seal won't hurt. Matter of fact I recommended it.
3) Lubricate the seal. This is almost always skipped and the seal burns up in a few miles. Use a little white grease on the seal lip and axle.
Mike
Mike,
Some quick clarifications before I start this. I've just about got all the parts..
2. By sealer, do you mean silicone based? Do you have a brand/product name in mind here?
3. What type of white grease? Is it actually white, or clear-ish? Lithium Base? Silicone? Again, if you have a brand and name/ part number that would help..
Sorry that was a miss print on that seal number. You did find the TSB I was referring to with the proper seal number. I don't know what the dealer means by type, maybe the lip seal design or location?
There are two seals used, there is one that goes back in the diff housing (inner seal) and one that is in the bearing case (outer seal). If you notice in the TSB they are installing this seal into the back of the backing plate which lends me to believe this is the outer seal, the one that goes in the bearing case.
You would only replace this seal if you are doing the bearing. This seals primary job would be to keep water out of the bearing area. The inner seal is the one that leaks diff fluid into the bearing area and then out. The outer seal may slow this down a bit but is not the main culprit when a leak occurs.
When sealing the edge of a seal I use Permitex Ultra Copper RTV. Greasing the seals lip you want to use a lithium based white grease or just plain Vaseline works well.
Mike
__________________
“The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them” (Albert Einstein) Moderator Brake Forum
This site has some good advice on how to do what I'm up against.
My question is regarding the ABS sensor ring.
I've got the parts here. In looking at the manual it looks like after the bearing you have a retainer, then the snap ring, then the ABS rotor, then another retainer. The ABS rotor does not have the same inner diameter of the retainer. Probably so that it can avoid hitting the snap ring. But then if that is the case, when you remove the outer retainer, the ABS sensor should just fall off because it is just wedged between the two retainers.
Is this really the case? If so then why does the manual say destroy the rotor to remove it if all you really have to remove is the retainer?
Is is possible there is a separate retainer for the ABS Ring? Because it doesn't look very stable with the parts I have.
Another observation is that the seal will rub against the final retainer, in this case the one after the ABS rotor, not the axle. So nicking the axle should not matter at all unless you have a groove along the axle where the retainer sits..
I'm still curious about these parts and how they go together.
Here is a picture of a non-Toyota rear seal, the sensor ring, the retainer, and the snap ring.
What is very odd is that the sensor ring is not pressed onto the axle. Its inner diameter is much larger then the retainer.. Is it just held in place by the bevel on the two retainers?? Seems kinda sub-standard to do it this way, if one retainer got loose, it would free spin or get lopsided.. Here you can see the Sensor ring sitting on top of the retainer.. Why would they tell you to destroy it and not replace it if it just comes off really loose with the removal of the second retainer?
The other interesting part is that the inner seal rides on the retainer, not on the actual axle. That seems kind of odd to me. Seems like nicking the axle isn't going to cause a leak, just fatigue in the metal and less strength if it gets nicked...
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I the first one to do this myself on an 2000 Tundra with ABS?
Well I've done a lot of trucks with similar set up including Tacoma and Landcrusiers, but I haven't done a Tundra yet. And if I ever needed to do mine it wouldn't be the same as I don't have ABS. So I can't help you on specifics here. Maybe someone else can.
But the best thing to do if your going to tackle this yourself is, once the axles out take pictures. The digital camera can be your best friend. Spend some time studying the parts and how they go together. This way your familiar with it and have pictures to back you up.
Many manufactures ride the seal on the retainer, this is not uncommon. If the retainer gets seal lip wear no problem your replacing it anyway's. If the axle gets seal lip wear you need a new axle.
Mike
__________________
“The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them” (Albert Einstein) Moderator Brake Forum
2000 Tundra Rear Brakes, Leaking Diff Oil?
Linear Mode
