Completed Front Brake TSB BR004-02 Myself - Some Observations

[gixxerscott]

If I have the 13WL on my 03 tundra can I assume I didn't need the Toyota TSB #BR004-02 ? I bought it in Nov of 02 which I thought was on the cusp.

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by gixxerscott

If I have the 13WL on my 03 tundra can I assume I didn't need the Toyota TSB #BR004-02 ? I bought it in Nov of 02 which I thought was on the cusp.

Yes. The main item of this TSB is the installation of the 13WL caliper. The rest of this very time consuming and strenuous work for this TSB is the replacement of the backing plate.

[mustang67408]

Why didn't you replace the backing plate also?
It is redesigned to allow more cool air into the brakes.

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by mustang67408

Why didn't you replace the backing plate also?
It is redesigned to allow more cool air into the brakes.

I know about the backing plate redesign but it wasn't something that I was willing to tackle while doing the work in my mom's garage. After seeing how easy it was to trim the backing plates, I'd much rather have this done than to have the spindles removed and to have the bearing pressed out and back in.

I haven't seen any info indicating the benefits of the new backing plate design which is why I was comfortable with the installation of a quality rotor and the larger caliper. What have you heard or experienced with the new backing plate's cooling properties over the old one?

Paul

[joede]

About the brakes dragging. Why?

The OEM flexible brake line wall thickness is too thin. Thus when you let off the brake, the brake line wall collapses onto itself and stops the brake fluid from traveling back towards the master cylynder. In effect the line pinches itself closed.

When the line is pinched closed it cannot allow the caliper piston to retract. Thus your pads stay pinned against the rotors as if you were applying a slight brake pressure.

The Stainless lines are too strong to colapse upon themselves. Thus they allow the caliper piston to fully retract, allowing the pads to move completely away from the rotors.

Make sense?

[johnbigbootie]

Originally Posted by Picasso

A few days ago I installed stainless steel braided brake hoses from Crown Performance on the front and installed the Goodridge hose for the rear brakes. Immediately following this install, which included the required brake fluid bleeding, the brake dragging that I had been experiencing disappeared.

Picasso, thanks for the detail in this post, it is greatly appreciated. I purchased a set of Brembo rotors and Performance Friction brake pads on line for my wife's 02 Sequoia (her brakes shudder like crazy and I need to get them fixed; too late for dealer TSB fix so I'll try this route to start).

One question about the brake line replacement: when you disconnected the brake line(s) from the caliper(s), what did you do with them? I am picturing brake lines dangling down from the truck, bleeding brake fluid all over the place. Did the brake lines "bleed" brake fuid continuously while disconnected? Or do they only "bleed" if pressure is applied to the system e.g. stepping on the brakes? Sorry if this is a dumb question...I have replaced brake pads and worked on calipers etc. on many of my cars over the years but I have yet to ever disconnect a brake line and don't know what to expect, in case I decide to take this step after my rotor/pad replacement. TIA.

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by johnbigbootie

Picasso, thanks for the detail in this post, it is greatly appreciated. I purchased a set of Brembo rotors and Performance Friction brake pads on line for my wife's 02 Sequoia (her brakes shudder like crazy and I need to get them fixed; too late for dealer TSB fix so I'll try this route to start).

One question about the brake line replacement: when you disconnected the brake line(s) from the caliper(s), what did you do with them? I am picturing brake lines dangling down from the truck, bleeding brake fluid all over the place. Did the brake lines "bleed" brake fuid continuously while disconnected? Or do they only "bleed" if pressure is applied to the system e.g. stepping on the brakes? Sorry if this is a dumb question...I have replaced brake pads and worked on calipers etc. on many of my cars over the years but I have yet to ever disconnect a brake line and don't know what to expect, in case I decide to take this step after my rotor/pad replacement. TIA.

Welcome to TundraSolutions.

Yes. The lines will drip, drip, drip if left hanging and unplugged. It doesn't take much to keep them from dripping though. You just have to find something that will fit in or over the end of the brake hose.

Most of the time I didn't disconnect the hoses until I was ready to reconnect or replace them, so they didn't hang long. When they did, I just let them drip onto a piece of aluminum foil the I strategically placed to catch the dripping which then drained into a small pan. I used a wire clothes hanger to hang the caliper while it was still connected to the hose, but that barely worked. Those calipers are heavy.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.


Paul

[johnbigbootie]

Paul,

I just finished-up my front rotor and pad replacement. All in all it went well, no major snags. As I said previously in this thread, I bought a set of Brembo OEM replacement rotors and Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads.

Here is the front wheel before starting:



The rotor with the caliper removed:



The new rotor in the box:



Old rotor removed, before clean-up:



New rotor installed:



New rotor, caliper back on:



Anti-squeal on back of new pads:



New pads installed:



Once it was all done I bled each side and then followed some "bed-in" procedures (followed the Hawk pad instructions, I couldn't find any instructions specific to the Performance Friction pads). The Sequoia now stops great, no noise, no shudder, and the shaking steering wheel that was present at around 65-70 MPH is now gone, too. I am very happy with this.

One thing I found a little disturbing was the amount of "play" when I spun the new rotors, when the calipers were back on but before the new pads were installed. You could see a lot of side-to-side movement as the rotor rotated through 360 degrees. I thought it might be attributed to the fact that there were only a couple of lug nuts holding it on at the time, but it makes me wonder if there is indeed something not right with the wheel bearings; it's impossible to tell once the wheel is back on whether or not the rotor is spinning "true".

Anyway thanks very much for all the help here, this was a big win for me.

Robert

[Picasso]

Robert,
Excellent pics. Looks like you did a great job. You also have the satisfaction of knowing that the job was done right.

Interesting observation about the rotor "play." I've heard this kind of thing before. If the lug nuts on your rotors were only hand tightened when you observed this, it is very possible that this was the cause of the observed play. Additionally, if there is enough rust or dirt of some kind on the hub, this could cause the play especially if the lug nuts were not torqued down.

You can do a check for play now that everything is bolted back together. Try to rock the tire while grabbing it at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions with that corner of your SUV raised on a jack stand. If you feel any play, then you have found a problem with either the wheel bearing or the ball joints.

If you have never noticed any problems with your front wheels before, then it was most likely the untorqued lug nuts.


Paul

[longwoodklon]

I'm going to be replacing the brake lines (Summit Racing is waiting on them) once they come in and got some Hawk pads online. Figured I'd give it one last chance before I change the caliper.
I know the new caliper is bigger, but the brake pad area seems the same if not slightly smaller when using the upgraded caliper/pads. So how does this new caliper actually improve the shaking? My initial impression was it somehow resulted in lower rotor temperatures while braking, but I don't see how that is the case after looking at the actual pads(and the rotors haven't changed). I notice the new pads are a different shape than the originals. Does that have anything to do with it? Kind of like some cars placing their calipers at the front of the rotor, while others place them at the rear.
/mike

[lelandstanford]

Old pad: D812 , 119X78mm
New pad: D976, 132X75mm

Supposedly, new pads with larger friction area will reduce temperature.

[mustang67408]

Originally Posted by lelandstanford

Old pad: D812 , 119X78mm
New pad: D976, 132X75mm

Supposedly, new pads with larger friction area will reduce temperature.

The NEW backing plates that come with the updated pads are also SUPPOSED to grab more air to help keep the brakes cooler.

[Picasso]

Old pad: D812 , 119X78mm
New pad: D976, 132X75mm

Supposedly, new pads with larger friction area will reduce temperature.

The friction area of the D976 pads is actually smaller than the D812 pad.

D812 and D976 Pad Comparison


Paul

[lelandstanford]

Originally Posted by Picasso

The friction area of the D976 pads is actually smaller than the D812 pad.

D812 and D976 Pad Comparison


Paul

Your observation is correct on factory pads.

However, standard spec (D#) is usually different and (possibly) smaller friction area than factory pads.

I've called Wagner about D465's (previous gen Civic) smaller friction area (vs. factory pads). Their answer is their pads meet industry spec.

According to EBC, D976 seems to have slightly more friction area than D812.

EBC Brakes Catalogues

[longwoodklon]

Originally Posted by mustang67408

The NEW backing plates that come with the updated pads are also SUPPOSED to grab more air to help keep the brakes cooler.

You know, I had the TSB done on my 2002 Sequoia and never even knew about the redesign of the backing plate. I could see the larger caliper and I thought that was it. Does this new backing plate have fins or something? Anyone got a pic?
About the pads, industry spec., etc.. I simply saw the pads Picasso posted. So regardless, they are what Toyota uses and must have tested to work for this TSB. I am not doubting it works, they are spending lots of money applying this upgrade and I haven't heard anyone having this TSB done and vibrations coming back. So it seems to work, I just don't see how it does, after looking at those 'larger'(not really) pads.
Maybe the larger calipers transfer heat better? My only concern is I do this upgrade myself and the one thing that really makes the difference(increased air flow of new backing plate) is omitted(since I can't do that myself). But I guess if those who've done this themselves don't have a reoccurence of the vibrations, I should not worry about it.
/Mike