2003 v6 toyota camry

[mikeinaustin]

not sure where this post should go, so putting here...


anyone have a 2003 v6 toyota camry? what have your experiences been with it?

also, what is the ATF requirement (toyota t-iv or dexron ii/iii or ...) ?

What is the PSF requirement?

[nhparrot]

AT Fluid DEXRON II or III should be used for Power Steering Fluid.

Automatic Transmission Fluid requirement is Toyota Genuine ATF Type T–IV

[mikeinaustin]

come on now, one of you guys gots to have a new camry! input appreciated...

[Buzzard]

If your looking to buy an 03 Camry V6--ask them if they have solved the gel problem in the V6 engine. Unless they have changed them it will probably be the same engine thats in my Sienna and I got a letter saying the engine had a gel problem.--Buzz

[Brian M]

Got the same letter about my Avalon and the gel. I truly believe that is for folks that do not do regular maintenance. Mine is changed every 3000 miles and you can pull the stick anytime and the oil looks as clear as the day it was poured in.

Use only Toyota Filters too.

I will say, however, that following extended service schedules may not be a good idea with these V-6's.....just in case.

[mikeinaustin]

what years are your vehicles? in theory the problem was fixed in 2002.

and yes, i would be doing 3K oil changes with a toyota filter. almost certainly would use amsoil (10w30 if allowed by manual) synthetic motor oil.

[SteVVT-i]

The gelling/sludge problems seem to be most severe in the Sienna minivan. Perhaps the tight engine compartment or cooling issues with this particular application makes in the Sienna than others. I haven't heard of nearly as many problems with the gel/sludge stuff in other Toyotas with the 1MZ-FE engine.

Supposedly the a "fix" was made either late in 2001 or very very early in 2002. We got this letter for our 2002 Highlander and I remember concluding that we did in fact have the "fixed" version of the engine and we got it in July 2002, I believe.

We've been doing 3000-5000 mile changes and the oil always looks very very clean. Just as a precaution, I would definitely NOT recommend doing the extended 7500 mile changes with these engines. Switching to synthetic which has a much greater tolerance for extreme heat would also be a very good idea as well. We are sticking with dino oil and just fairly frequent changes on our 2002 HL, however.

[EDGE]

SteVVT-i, I've seen you on alot of boards you get around I like the V6P.net

As for the so called gelling problem I was talking with several techs and they said most of the cars with gell problems where from owners who bought the cars used off leases and did not have pervious maintaince records, noone with a car that had 3-5k oil changes had any problems, generally the folks who leased and changed their oil once a year

So what is the fix, a new engine and what about cars that are still capable of developing the gell.

I have a 2003 ES300, I have the books that came with the car, they usually tell the DIY stuff but nothin indepth

[SteVVT-i]

Originally posted by EDGE
SteVVT-i, I've seen you on alot of boards you get around I like the V6P.net

Thanks. Yeah, I'm a nomad right now.

So what is the fix, a new engine and what about cars that are still capable of developing the gell.

The fix is a modified head design. Supposedly Toyota increased the oil passage widths by like 1 or 2 mils which allows the oil to drain out of the heads faster and not have to take as much heat. Or something like that. The root of the problem though is the fact that Toyota has the heads running some 20 degrees hotter than the rest of the block, which is outside of the normal industry "acceptable limits" which is what kills the oil. They do this as part of their emissions control scheme. They can't just drop the head temps back down to more normal levels because then they'll blow their emissions budgeting, so I guess the bandaid is what we get for now.

I wonder how they have the 3MZ-FE (new 3.3L) working...

[EDGE]

SteVVT-i
never knew that about the heads, the new 3.3 (3MZ-FE ) that is the engine in the RX330 and what engines where havin the gell problem, which cars exactly

[SteVVT-i]

Originally posted by EDGE
SteVVT-i
never knew that about the heads, the new 3.3 (3MZ-FE ) that is the engine in the RX330 and what engines where havin the gell problem, which cars exactly

I searched on Google for "Toyota Sludge Model Years" netted the following jackpot on this one. You can find anything on Google.

http://yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

Here are the guidelines Toyota is using to establish the engines that are prone to having the sludge (gel) condition:

Camry 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 7/01
Camry 6 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 7/01
Solara 4 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 5/01
Solara 6 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 5/01
Sienna 6 cyl. Produced 7/97 - 5/01
Avalon 6 cyl. Produced 7/96 - 5/01
Celica 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 4/99
Highlander 6 cyl. Produced 11/00 - 7/01

If you look at the vehicle identification label on the left door or left door post you can find the date of manufacutre. It normally is one of the first things you can see on the upper left of the label (example 7/98 means it was made July, 1998).

He goes on to say that the poor PCV valve design (emissions control related) is the main culprit. So what does the PCV valve do? I really don't know, but another search on Google for "PCV Valve function" found this:

http://www.hastingsfilter.com/engine...tsb_94-2r.html

Positive Crankcase Ventilation is a system that was developed to remove harmful vapors from the engine and to prevent those vapors from being expelled into the atmosphere. The PCV system does this by using manifold vacuum to draw vapors from the crankcase into the intake manifold. Vapor is then carried with the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chambers where it is burned. The flow or circulation within the system is controlled by the PCV Valve. The PCV Valve is effective as both a crankcase ventilation system and as a pollution control device.

It goes on and explains in much greater detail...

Now, I know for a fact that the heads on these engines run significantly hotter than the rest of the block. Whether this is by design of the heads, or due to the PCV valve issues, or due to both I'm not sure of, but this was published material (not forum gossip) so I know it's probably good info. I'm not sure how it all works as far as one being related to the other and what not.

As for the "fix" and the modified head design, now I'm not so sure exactly what they fixed. I know they increased the diameter or width of something by 1-2 mils, though.

Just going to think out loud...


If the PCV valve design is too small and won't flow enough, this would send some really super-heated gasses back into the heads. The super-heated gasses could then cause sludge/gelling in the heads, the clogging of oil passages, and eventual oil starvation and failure of the engine. The way I see it, there are two ways to fix it. Modifying the PCV valve design so that it flows a little more would possibly reduce the temps in the head and the bottom end of the engine making it less prone to sludge and give it a little more tolerance, but this might affect emissions budgeting and Toyota would have to re-certify all of their engines. The other way to fix it is to increase the rate oil flows through the heads such that oil isn't exposed to the hot gasses from the PCV design as long, which also will help prevent oil from sludging, at least in the heads, and at the same time will not require recertification of engines and won't screw up emissions budgeting. Or maybe they did both!

So the tid-bit I picked up somewhere about the modified head design and increasing oil flow via widening oil passages a bit may be what Toyota did afterall. The way to check that would be to measure the block vs head temps on a sludge-prone 1MZ-FE engine, and then compare it to a non-sludge-prone "fixed" 1MZ-FE and see if there is a difference. If there is a difference and the "fixed" design has lower head temps, then that points to PCV redesign. If the head temps are still the same as the old 1MZ-FE, that points to modified head design for more oil flow and less exposure to really hot gasses from PCV valve flow.


Or maybe somebody else out there knows the whole story and has a link to a good webpage and I've just wasted all of my time for nothing.

Regardless, all 2002 models should be "fixed" and some 2001 models may be also. And if you have an older model, Toyota will cover any sludge problems anyways, the existing failure rate is stil extremely low, so don't sweat it too much.


phweew!


My parents have sludge prone 5SFE engines in their 98 and 00 Camry's and have not had any issues. We have the "fixed" 1MZ-FE in our 2002 Highlander and have not had any issues so far at 22,000 miles. Oil in the HL has always looked very light colored on the dipstick. We do 3-5k changes (meets or exceed Toyota recommendations) and keep all maintenance records, so I'm not too concerned about it.

[SteVVT-i]

Further searching on Google "Toyota Sludge Head Design" revealed multiple sites/people saying that Toyota modified both the head design and the PCV valve design as part of the fix. So any 2002+ Toyota should be free and clear of any sludge issues.

If anybody is considering a 2003 Camry V6 and power is of interest to you, you might want to take a pass on the 03 closeouts and wait for the 2004. The 04 SE V6 (SE only, not LE or XLE) will have the 3.3L engine. A guy with insider info at ToyotaNation.com has claimed this, and two people have now picked up brochures for the 04 models and have confirmed this also. I stopped by my Toyota dealership today but they didn't have any 04 brochures yet...

[Eddie]

All the sludged ES300s and RX300s I've worked on had very spotty or nonexistant maintenance. I've yet to see a regularly maintained RX or ES have gel problems,this meaning oil changes at no more than 5000-mile intervals.

Newer design valve covers are used in sludge repairs. The valve covers (old and new design) are baffled,and the cover plates are welded on so we can't access the baffling to clean it out. The PCV valve mount is changed too,since a thread-on PCV valve is used instead of the previous plastic push-in. These are the same parts used in the 2001-on vehicles.

The ES330 (same body as the present ES300) will have the 3.3,so I don't see why Toyota wouldn't do it to the same-platform Camry.

PS SteVVT-i you'll have to trim down your sig. photo,max size is 200x100 pixels

[SteVVT-i]

Originally posted by Eddie
All the sludged ES300s and RX300s I've worked on had very spotty or nonexistant maintenance. I've yet to see a regularly maintained RX or ES have gel problems,this meaning oil changes at no more than 5000-mile intervals.

Due to the relatively low numbers of issues, this is sorta what I figured. There must be a general point at which dino oil just completely starts to crap out and then the sludge build-up begins. This would help to explain why some engines are completely clean, yet others were sludged to death.

Newer design valve covers are used in sludge repairs. The valve covers (old and new design) are baffled,and the cover plates are welded on so we can't access the baffling to clean it out. The PCV valve mount is changed too,since a thread-on PCV valve is used instead of the previous plastic push-in. These are the same parts used in the 2001-on vehicles.

Ah, yeah. I recall reading something about valve cover design too. This just on retrofit sludge repair engines though, yes? Did they makes similar changes to the newer engines, or was the strategy for "new" engines different?

PS SteVVT-i you'll have to trim down your sig. photo,max size is 200x100 pixels

Fixed.

[mikeinaustin]

waiting for the 3.3 v6 isn't a bad idea actually. i feel the camry is far too large for a 4cyl, so a v6 is a must for me, and a bigger v6 even better. naturally, wished toyota put (assuming it could fit) our tundra v8 into a camry!

non-synthetic oil really does start to fall apart after 3k, ie, you put in a 30wt oil (5w30 or 10w30) but after 3k miles it starts to become a 20wt oil (almost certainly not what your engine wants). synthetics give you greater margin, perhaps lasting 5k-7k.

to me doing oil changes every 3k (strict) removes any doubts as to the current state of the oil in the vehicle - its good. so even with an engine thats "tough" on oil, i shouldn't run into any oil related problems (assuming i don't have a coolent leak cause getting that stuff into your oil is really bad news).

an es300 would be nice, but too big a price difference between it and a v6 camry for what you get (naturally, just my view of things). plus you generally can deal with toyota dealers on price much better than you can with lexus dealers.