Welcome any and all comments specific to the 2009 1.8L 2ZR-FE.
Reposting here under a new topic should be more appropriate.
LT
I have an 08 corolla which is a slightly different engine, but pretty close to the same.
I have read numerous threads at bobistheoilguy.com about this very issue.
If you do get the TSB done, you will get worse MPG and from what i read here on this issue it isn't solving the problem.
Switch to a 0w30 or 5w30 and your problems will go away. First hand experience on our corolla here.
I am using one of the top rated oils in it: Amsoil ASL 5w30 was the last fill with NO consumption issues whatsoever. Current fill is ASM 0w20 with about 8k miles on it, and it has consumed some oil as well us start up noise issues after sitting for 2 days. Never experienced any consumption nor startup noise with the 5w30.
I am not alone on this, either. Several have switched with great resluts.
Moral of the story is: SWITCH TO A 30 W OIL and consumption will soon go away, the motor will be quieter, and no startup noise either.
I have NO experience with 0w30 yet, only 5w30 which is pretty close though. My next fill will be SSO 0w30 in about 8k miles, and i will update it's progress.
Thank you for your observations. Yu pretty much back up what I thought. Even when I first bought this 09 1.8L I had reservations about using the Xw20. Stuffs like water. It's definitely blowing by the pistons and probably all the valve guide seals to some extent as well. I can only imagine what the oil consumption would be at say 60K-200K miles.
Regarding The ECM Flash TSB... I also thought that it would impact MPG since all this could do is adjust Air Fuel Ratio to run somewhat cooler and burn less oil. But this always lowers fuel economy. It's just fundamental logic.
Toyota went to w20 to meet Fed. CAFE standards ...or be fined if they couldn't meet a higher average MPG across their entire model lineup.. the w20 helps in this regard. Other Mfrs. have done this too. That I know.
It is interesting to note that in Europe and Asia this Corolla 1.8 "World Car" calls for Xw30.
When the car was new . I pointed out to the dealer that it was very, very, noisey mostly at startup. I also pointed out that my XLE Corolla did not have an under hood pad. Dealer stated that all 09's don't get one. 800-Toyota said the same even though I faxed and showed that Toyota Parts Inventory does show that one exists.
A hood padIS in fact an orderable part for the 2009 XLE! I have a printout of the "blow-up" diagram of the hood pad and retainer clips. If yu look at the underside of the hood it has the retainer clip holes and two slots for the hood pad. Dealer gets about $130 for the pad and another $22 for all the retainers. (MSRP)
This would solve some of the noise as well.
I have 0w30 on hand with filter and ready for an OCI. I use this in my other two Toys with great results. I notice the Ow-XX exhibits less carbon due to cold starts. And I probably burn less than 3 oz. of oil between OCI.(my 1MZ and 3MZ )Not even requiring makeup oil between OCI's. I understand that ALL engines burn a little something. It is normal. But I don't feel any Toyota should require top offs between OCI's . All my Toyotas of years past never showed consumption like this 09 Corolla. The makeup oil between OCI's costs as much if not more than the actual OCI's themselves!! Especially when using an SYN oil.
BTOG is a great site. I have learned alot from this site over the years.
Question: Has anyone been able to backup the "Early production Piston issue" on this 09 1.8L as the possible cause of major oil burn?? My XLE is May 2008, Canadian Built.
Thanx again.
LT
Last edited by LifeTech; 02-15-2009 at 09:18 AM.
Reason: spel
Thank you for your observations. Yu pretty much back up what I thought. Even when I first bought this 09 1.8L I had reservations about using the Xw20. Stuffs like water. It's definitely blowing by the pistons and probably all the valve guide seals to some extent as well. I can only imagine what the oil consumption would be at say 60K-200K miles.
Regarding The ECM Flash TSB... I also thought that it would impact MPG since all this could do is adjust Air Fuel Ratio to run somewhat cooler and burn less oil. But this always lowers fuel economy. It's just fundamental logic.
Toyota went to w20 to meet Fed. CAFE standards ...or be fined if they couldn't meet a higher average MPG across their entire model lineup.. the w20 helps in this regard. Other Mfrs. have done this too. That I know.
It is interesting to note that in Europe and Asia this Corolla 1.8 "World Car" calls for Xw30.
When the car was new . I pointed out to the dealer that it was very, very, noisey mostly at startup. I also pointed out that my XLE Corolla did not have an under hood pad. Dealer stated that all 09's don't get one. 800-Toyota said the same even though I faxed and showed that Toyota Parts Inventory does show that one exists.
A hood padIS in fact an orderable part for the 2009 XLE! I have a printout of the "blow-up" diagram of the hood pad and retainer clips. If yu look at the underside of the hood it has the retainer clip holes and two slots for the hood pad. Dealer gets about $130 for the pad and another $22 for all the retainers. (MSRP)
This would solve some of the noise as well.
I have 0w30 on hand with filter and ready for an OCI. I use this in my other two Toys with great results. I notice the Ow-XX exhibits less carbon due to cold starts. And I probably burn less than 3 oz. of oil between OCI.(my 1MZ and 3MZ )Not even requiring makeup oil between OCI's. I understand that ALL engines burn a little something. It is normal. But I don't feel any Toyota should require top offs between OCI's . All my Toyotas of years past never showed consumption like this 09 Corolla. The makeup oil between OCI's costs as much if not more than the actual OCI's themselves!! Especially when using an SYN oil.
BTOG is a great site. I have learned alot from this site over the years.
Question: Has anyone been able to backup the "Early production Piston issue" on this 09 1.8L as the possible cause of major oil burn?? My XLE is May 2008, Canadian Built.
Thanx again.
LT
Yeah, the stuff is like water.
But...i don't know if you've noticed a UOA from a guy with a 07 tundra w/ the 5.7 or not. He is using Amsoil ASM 0w20 with great results and no oil consumption, but he only goes 5k mile intervals. The oil he drained was pretty much like virgin stuff from the bottle, virtually no increase in PPM metal content to be concerned with. This guy however, does not work his truck hard at all, and never tows anything. He drives it to work and back with max speeds at 55-60 mph from what he says.
His truck has 27k on it now, and the breakin process is finally done on his motor as metals are decreasing very nicely from when new.
I did not get this great of results on my ASM UOA at 6k and 15k on the clock. But the truck was used for heavy towing 95% of the interval. So next change will be SSO 0w30, and continue with it if UOA's hold up.
I'm ' 3toyotas4me' on bitog BTW.
I'm not buying into the CAFE bull$h!t whatsoever with our vehicles.
Wow! Already facing fines if they don't meet it huh?
From what i've read, the corolla's recomended oil is 30, 40, and sometimes even a 50w in austrailia. Go figure! And i'm sure it's the exact same motor.
Good to know about the 0w30 oils, Thanks. What brand you using?
Since back in 1988 with all my toyota's i've had, i never had any consumption issues either. But back then i was doing 3k OCI's though (Old school thinking nowadays.) But oil wasn't as good as it is now either.
I'll be making a large Amsoil order next month when the price decreases by .15-.30 cents per qt. And it will be mostly SSO 0w30 for the corolla, and my tundra. The 07 4-runner will get the ASL 5w30, as it is much quieter and seems to like it. Don't want to spend the extra $ for our GMC van right now, as it's still breaking in and leaching high amounts of copper. Going off the OLM, it's about 7500 miles between changes.
Note: CSST@ 100C & HTHC is very close between the SSO & ASL. The ASM 0w20 however, is lower by about 2-3 points on both.
HTHC is high temp hi shear.
Your the first i've heard about the early production piston issues. ???
first I've heard of it......we are at 9000+ miles. I have been keeping an eye on all the fluids since we got it no problems.
Without going and looking I cant tell the build date but we bought it in april 08.
Our old 93 tercel burnt about 1-1.5 quarts between changes but it had alot of miles on it and got abused when it was new.
I assume you're running a 20w oil?
We bought a 95 tercel w/ 120k miles on it, which was taken care of very well by the previous owner. It is now my nephews car, and doesn't eat any oil and runs great. Only thing we've done is replace an axle shaft.
Yours must have been neglected, i would assume.
The 09 1.8 2ZR-FE is from the ground up a new engine.
The pistons are completely new and were purposely designed to be VERY Light... there may be a relationship to Piston/Ring wear thus causing oil burning issues on this engine with merely 5K miles on it.
The ECM flash has recieved mixed reviews with owners who are meticulous and observant.
Oil consumption has generally NOT improved.
And some have even stated that MPG has taken a hit.
I have only spoken to one Dealer Customer with this concern. He was turned away when he asked for the TSB Flash. Told to continue and check Exactly how much oil he is burning. But this may be on a very late production date 2ZR-FE. So the flash may be up to date from the factory. And still showing severe oil burning issues. I did not get all the info.
The TSB ECM Flash must strongly impact the Air-Fuel Ratio...for this lower MPG to occur and be true.
It appears that those who choose to use the O(5)w30 like European and other regions specs. require ...that they are not observing the oil burning at all.
Need to pool more data. This issue still remains in its infancy.
BTW, it appears that the addition of "Roller Cam Bearings" to the valve train of this 2ZR ,(w/non-hydraulic tappets) has contributed tomuch of the "noise" many hear. Including myself.
May people who own these 09 2ZR's don't check their own oil...but just go to the dealer for OCI's. Do yu really think a dealer is going to tell yu that are using an excessive amount of oil. Most people never open up the hood. Especially a new car.
So many people are probably in the dark about this issue.
LT
Last edited by LifeTech; 02-16-2009 at 09:10 AM.
Reason: spel
We bought a 95 tercel w/ 120k miles on it, which was taken care of very well by the previous owner. It is now my nephews car, and doesn't eat any oil and runs great. Only thing we've done is replace an axle shaft.
Yours must have been neglected, i would assume.
Yes we are running 5-20W on the second oil change.
My wife bought the 93 tercel new and drove it from TN to CA the next day so no gentle break in. All regular servicing was done but it was driven hard and had 3 family members learn how to drive in it (teenagers)
In 13 years it had a new clutch and both CV's replaced plus routine stuff had over 200,000 miles when we got rid of it not bad IMHO
I own an 09 1.8L Matrix since March 08 and have noticed oil consumption.
All but my very first OC I do myself, just did one on my lunch break and decided it was time to try the 5w30 instead of 20w to see if it will quit using oil....
It's a difficult dipstick to get an accutate reading but on my last OCI using PP 5w20 it was down over 1/2 qt after about 4k miles.
I own an 09 1.8L Matrix since March 08 and have noticed oil consumption.
All but my very first OC I do myself, just did one on my lunch break and decided it was time to try the 5w30 instead of 20w to see if it will quit using oil....
It's a difficult dipstick to get an accutate reading but on my last OCI using PP 5w20 it was down over 1/2 qt after about 4k miles.
You should see a difference with less consumption, but be sure to let us know. PP is a good oil BTW.
Wow! Half a quart on a small 4 qt sump quite a bit. Not good.
I've been topping off with 5w30 on our corolla that is running 0w20, and consumption doesn't seem as bad now. Can't wait to get the 20w out of there; but it'll have to wait for another 5k miles.
I own a 09 1.8L Vibe which uses the same engine and transmission made by toyota nummi. I also notice the oil consumption problem.
However, I think that I find the reason.
The car has 3-D, 2, L. I always assumed it meant 3=D, and there's nothing in the owner's manual to suggest otherwise.
But it is not ture. "3" and "D" are two different gears. You can bump the lever to the right to get into D, and bump the lever to the left to get into 3.
When I use "3", the engine is noisy, especially when the speed is more than 80km/h, and the RPM is always between 3000-4000 or even higher, which I think made the engine consume more engine oil (High tempreture and High RPM). Also, the mileage is poor.
When I use "D", the engine is quite, especially when the speed is more than 80km/h, and the RPM is always between 2000-3000 which I think made the engine consume less engine oil (Low tempreture and Low RPM).
And the mileage is good.
I may be stupid. I noticed the difference between "3" and "D" after driving my car for more than 2500 km (2000 miles). Before that time, most of the time of driving, I was using "3" instead of "D". So I had a oil consumption problem and poor mileage on my vibe 09.
Now, I am using "D" gear during my driving, the oil consumption problem seems gone and the mileage is really good now.
I hope my experience can help others.
Any comments are welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhorth
Hey all,
I own an 09 1.8L Matrix since March 08 and have noticed oil consumption.
All but my very first OC I do myself, just did one on my lunch break and decided it was time to try the 5w30 instead of 20w to see if it will quit using oil....
It's a difficult dipstick to get an accutate reading but on my last OCI using PP 5w20 it was down over 1/2 qt after about 4k miles.
I own a 09 1.8L Vibe which uses the same engine and transmission made by toyota nummi. I also notice the oil consumption problem.
However, I think that I find the reason.
The car has 3-D, 2, L. I always assumed it meant 3=D, and there's nothing in the owner's manual to suggest otherwise.
But it is not ture. "3" and "D" are two different gears. You can bump the lever to the right to get into D, and bump the lever to the left to get into 3.
When I use "3", the engine is noisy, especially when the speed is more than 80km/h, and the RPM is always between 3000-4000 or even higher, which I think made the engine consume more engine oil (High tempreture and High RPM). Also, the mileage is poor.
When I use "D", the engine is quite, especially when the speed is more than 80km/h, and the RPM is always between 2000-3000 which I think made the engine consume less engine oil (Low tempreture and Low RPM).
And the mileage is good.
I may be stupid. I noticed the difference between "3" and "D" after driving my car for more than 2500 km (2000 miles). Before that time, most of the time of driving, I was using "3" instead of "D". So I had a oil consumption problem and poor mileage on my vibe 09.
Now, I am using "D" gear during my driving, the oil consumption problem seems gone and the mileage is really good now.
I hope my experience can help others.
Any comments are welcome.
NOt good. Especially during the most critical time in the cars life. The break in period.
Keep us informed with consumption (if you're using a 20w oil).
watched this 2ZR for several OCI's. Every Blackstone Lab result was normal using 0w20 or 5w20 M1. Oil consumption was still 2.5-3 qrts. make up oil between OCI's. Consistently measured at precise mileage intervals.
Oil capacity is approx. 4 qrts. with filter.
Last OCI was Ow30 M1. still NO change in oil consumption.
Research tells me that this engine being a Dual VVT-i, uses much oil. The TSB when applied changes the VVT-i timing and this is what would correct the oil condition, or at least what TMS says. The ECM flash won't apply to any 2ZR's produced after Sept. 2008 when at the factory the ECM's were updated during current production.
The Dual VVT-i is new technology...intake as well as exhaust valve timing are ECM controlled unlike the older plain Jane VVT-i found on the 2008 and older 1.8L. The 2.4L found on the S model 2009 Corolla and Matrix is an older Single VVT-i engine. That's why it is not affected. My daughters 09 Matrix with 2.4 burns NO oil whatsoever. But my Corolla is killing me on oil. M1 at $7 qrt. x 3 ...$21 in make up oil between 5K mile OCI 's is rediculous. It's costing me almost a second OCI just for the Make up oil.
Just some food for thought
.
My 2ZR XLE Corolla is going in for the ECM Flash this week as well as getting the Recall done for the Brake booster vent relocation. TMS sent me the Recall notice on this.
watched this 2ZR for several OCI's. Every Blackstone Lab result was normal using 0w20 or 5w20 M1. Oil consumption was still 2.5-3 qrts. make up oil between OCI's. Consistently measured at precise mileage intervals.
Oil capacity is approx. 4 qrts. with filter.
Last OCI was Ow30 M1. still NO change in oil consumption.
Research tells me that this engine being a Dual VVT-i, uses much oil. The TSB when applied changes the VVT-i timing and this is what would correct the oil condition, or at least what TMS says. The ECM flash won't apply to any 2ZR's produced after Sept. 2008 when at the factory the ECM's were updated during current production.
The Dual VVT-i is new technology...intake as well as exhaust valve timing are ECM controlled unlike the older plain Jane VVT-i found on the 2008 and older 1.8L. The 2.4L found on the S model 2009 Corolla and Matrix is an older Single VVT-i engine. That's why it is not affected. My daughters 09 Matrix with 2.4 burns NO oil whatsoever. But my Corolla is killing me on oil. M1 at $7 qrt. x 3 ...$21 in make up oil between 5K mile OCI 's is rediculous. It's costing me almost a second OCI just for the Make up oil.
Just some food for thought
.
My 2ZR XLE Corolla is going in for the ECM Flash this week as well as getting the Recall done for the Brake booster vent relocation. TMS sent me the Recall notice on this.
Update from the 0w30 here as well.
It's not going as good as i hoped with this oil. I still have some consumption issues although not as bad as the 0w20. I have some motor noise that i didn't have before with the 5w30. And mileage is the same with either oil.
I found that Amsoil's 5w30 is on the thicker side of a 30w, and if i remember right mobil one is on the lighter side. I think that was right, but i know amsoil is thicker than most.
I have also found out that Amsoil's 5w30 ASL has a lot more molly in it than either oil, so with this i'm going to save some money in the future and all of my rigs will get ASL. Even my tundra which specs a 20w.
Hey Lifetech........i've heard a lot of good things lately about Penzoil Platinum synthetic. Maybe you oughta give their 5w30 a shot next OCI? Or, for about the same price i can get you Amsoil XL 5w30 to try if you'd like. I'm a PC, so i get wholesale pricing at just over $5 per quart.
Oh, BTW.....my tundra has dual vvti and it has no consumption issues. So..... i don't know how much i'd buy into that dual vvti hupla. JMO though.
2009 Corolla 1.8L (2ZR)... Oil Consumption ISSUE!
Linear Mode
