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DetailingGeneral discussion forum for detailing your vehicle.
This is a discussion thread titled "swirl remover haze residue?", within the Detailing forum, part of the Technical & Vehicle Assistance Forums category.
I recently just used 3m swirl remover and did my whole truck. It looks really shinny until direct sunlight reflection shows a white, hazy, swirly look. I washed it after and still, then let the sun bake it for a couple of days. its still there. Am I supposed to even use swirl remover over the whole truck? What should I do?
The guy who owned my truck before must have did something like that 'cause I have the same kind of swirls in the paint. It's unnoticable though, unless looked at through a reflection in the sunlight.
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I recently just used 3m swirl remover and did my whole truck. It looks really shinny until direct sunlight reflection shows a white, hazy, swirly look. I washed it after and still, then let the sun bake it for a couple of days. its still there. Am I supposed to even use swirl remover over the whole truck? What should I do?
try a clay bar might help
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I've always had great results with a polishing product called Safe Cut (available at www.autobarn.com). Almost impossible to screw up but I apply it by hand and not a buffer. I'd imagine the 3M product is similar so it's possible you might need a more aggressive polishing compound, in which case you might want to go with a professional detailer.
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Chances are you didnt work the polish in enough, or you didnt follow up with a finer grade...Im not familiar with 3M polishes, how agressive is it? Might want to get a diminishing polish like meguiars 82 sfp, it starts agressive, but as you work it in it breaks down. Think of it like wood and sandpaper, use the agressive stuff to get the big knicks out, then a finer grit to get those out and so on...
It helps if you use a swirl remover with a buffer or orbital, then put a glaze on top of that, then seal it. Don't sweat it if you don't remover all the swirls, just take off the shiny edges, then fill in the scratches with glaze and/or sealant (wax).
Wax goes on thicker so it's easier to fill in scratches (swirls are just light scratches) that way, but if you use synthetic you just put on more coats.
You can always layer wax over synthetic sealer for more depth too.
Alan
Quote:
Originally Posted by loompa
I recently just used 3m swirl remover and did my whole truck. It looks really shinny until direct sunlight reflection shows a white, hazy, swirly look. I washed it after and still, then let the sun bake it for a couple of days. its still there. Am I supposed to even use swirl remover over the whole truck? What should I do?
Sounds like you need to step down to a finer abrasive polish. The hazing it sounds like you see is from the earlier app of swirl remover. Swirl removal is a long, arduous process by hand, so I would highly suggest getting a PC or a cyclo polisher at some point in time. I would also suggest claying, but for other reasons. Claying will not suffice as a swirl removing step. And word of "caution"...you need to be perfectly happy with your finish BEFORE applying Zaino as it will "magnify" any defects in the paint such as swirling. It's not something you'd wanna use to try and "hide" the marring to say the least. Just my $0.02.
Hi Loompa. Sorry you're having problems. I am not sure what the haze is due to but will venture a guess. If you did the truck by hand, the haze may be due to working in too large an area. 3MSMR is best applied by an orbital polisher as Akuth suggests; it can be done by hand but must be applied in small areas with careful application. If not done this way, the haze may be small scratches caused by the 3MSMR ... OR...
Did you wash, then clay, then wash, then apply the SMR? If not, then you may have been dragging small micro-particles of dirt across your surface and causing more swirls than you were removing.
In either case, the haze is likely due to micro-scratches in the paint. If this is so, and is not a problem with temperature or humidity or a defective product, then not to worry - it is probably fixable.
My suggestion is to buy/beg/borrow a Porter-Cable Random Orbital Polisher and some high-quality foam pads, some good microfiber polishing cloths, get yourself some Clay, and re-do the truck. Be sure to wash, clay, wash, then apply the SMR with the PC. Work in a 2ft square area and overlap it. Do a search on the net or go to Griot's site to learn how to do this. Do the entire car, working horizontal surfaces in a front to back direction and vertical surfaces in a vertical direction. Once you do the whole truck, wash it again - use Dawn and really wash it well to remove all traces of the SMR.
THEN polish the car and your finish should be fine. If you use wax, apply a good glaze first, then the wax of your choice. If you wish to try Zaino, which does NOT magnify defects in my experience ( just an opinion), then start with Z5 which will fill in any swirls that your SMR missed and keep applying thin coats until you are satisfied that the finish is as defect-free as you can make it. Then apply one or more coats of Z2 and the paint will get deeper and deeper with each coat you apply. Use their ZFX hardener to speed up the time between coats (helps it dry faster) and their Z6 detailing spray to make it easier to apply subsequent coats. Check out the Zainobros site for more info if this interests you.
I know Zaino looks like a lot of work - and it is!! However, so is going over your truck with SMR to get it swirl-free and, in my opinion, Zaino provides the best protection for the finish that I have tried. You may also wish to look at the Wax Report from Guru Reports to get their take on it; not the most scientific but the only "objective" data out there on what works for them. In the end, the choice of finish is subjective and you will find many who don't agree with Guru Reports findings but for me, Zaino is the best for my truck under my environmental conditions.
Mikey was pretty clear on how to use the oribital and he's right. One other tip that I'd add on it use that is kind of hard to do at first but will help a lot: When you're moving the orbital, only move it at *an inch a second*. That is quite slow but is the proper speed. So that means that if you're reading this on a 17 inch screen (diagonal), that's a little under 13 inches across and should take 12 or 13 seconds to cross what you're reading right now. Move it slowwww and at about 3.5 to 4. Don't think going on 5 or higher is best.
People tend to move it faster than that and it's not as effect at the randomness (removing directional scratches which are what make them visible). Not such a big deal with wax, but it's a huge deal with polish. Too, you should be removing polish while it's still wet. ("polish on, polish off immediately"). When polish dries on the paint it's more abrasive. DON'T do it on warm paint either. It's better if you can do it on the coolest paint you can (but I don't mean "winter" cool").
Zaino is the best finish out of all finishes, but if you don't want to buy an orbital (you're crazy not too...) then you'll probably find that Klasse's acrylic based synthetic will probably be less work (a LOT less work) and will give you 95 to 97 percent of the same results. It's more effective at covering scratches than Zaino without a lot of layering. If you want to put in the extra effort at layering then it really doesn't matter. But on a gray or dark finish with a coat or two of wax over Klasse, it's pretty amazing how it looks and it's really not a lot of effort putting it on or taking it off by hand.
That's one of the reasons I use it over Zaino (time) even though Zaino can give you a better finish if you're willing to go "all out" with a "take no prisoners" attitude on the finish. Zaino is definitely nice, nice stuff.
Alan
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey
Hi Loompa. Sorry you're having problems. I am not sure what the haze is due to but will venture a guess. If you did the truck by hand, the haze may be due to working in too large an area. 3MSMR is best applied by an orbital polisher as Akuth suggests; it can be done by hand but must be applied in small areas with careful application. If not done this way, the haze may be small scratches caused by the 3MSMR ... OR...
Did you wash, then clay, then wash, then apply the SMR? If not, then you may have been dragging small micro-particles of dirt across your surface and causing more swirls than you were removing.
In either case, the haze is likely due to micro-scratches in the paint. If this is so, and is not a problem with temperature or humidity or a defective product, then not to worry - it is probably fixable.
My suggestion is to buy/beg/borrow a Porter-Cable Random Orbital Polisher and some high-quality foam pads, some good microfiber polishing cloths, get yourself some Clay, and re-do the truck. Be sure to wash, clay, wash, then apply the SMR with the PC. Work in a 2ft square area and overlap it. Do a search on the net or go to Griot's site to learn how to do this. Do the entire car, working horizontal surfaces in a front to back direction and vertical surfaces in a vertical direction. Once you do the whole truck, wash it again - use Dawn and really wash it well to remove all traces of the SMR.
THEN polish the car and your finish should be fine. If you use wax, apply a good glaze first, then the wax of your choice. If you wish to try Zaino, which does NOT magnify defects in my experience ( just an opinion), then start with Z5 which will fill in any swirls that your SMR missed and keep applying thin coats until you are satisfied that the finish is as defect-free as you can make it. Then apply one or more coats of Z2 and the paint will get deeper and deeper with each coat you apply. Use their ZFX hardener to speed up the time between coats (helps it dry faster) and their Z6 detailing spray to make it easier to apply subsequent coats. Check out the Zainobros site for more info if this interests you.
I know Zaino looks like a lot of work - and it is!! However, so is going over your truck with SMR to get it swirl-free and, in my opinion, Zaino provides the best protection for the finish that I have tried. You may also wish to look at the Wax Report from Guru Reports to get their take on it; not the most scientific but the only "objective" data out there on what works for them. In the end, the choice of finish is subjective and you will find many who don't agree with Guru Reports findings but for me, Zaino is the best for my truck under my environmental conditions.
swirl remover haze residue?
It's unnoticable though, unless looked at through a reflection in the sunlight.
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