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Engine & DrivetrainDiscussions about the engine and drivetrain of your vehicle.
This is a discussion thread titled "Hey Toyota Corporate! Take a look at this: knocking noise", within the Engine & Drivetrain forum, part of the Technical & Vehicle Assistance Forums category.
I live in Florida where it rarely falls below 35 degrees. I have a 2000 model with 34k miles and I have the knocking noise so bad when the truck is cold you'd swear the motor was going to fly apart. The colder it is outside, the worse the noise is. This is the most annoying thing I have ever had to deal with in a vehicle. I can't even imagine how bad it would be if I lived where it got down to 0 degrees or below. The dealer won't deal with it, they just say its normal, even though they won't even test drive it when the engine is cold so that I can show them how bad it is. The more miles I put on the truck the worse the noise gets and the higher the threshold temp that initiates the knocking. Its to the point now that even in the middle of summer when it is 80 degrees out in the morning it still knocks slightly for the first 5 miles. And it never goes away completely, it just reduces to an annoying tick. The dealer tells me the tick I hear after its warmed up is the fuel injectors, which is BS. I've had this truck for 3 years and I think I know what it is supposed to sound like and it didn't make this noise when it was new. I'm very frustrated over this. I went away from the big three for the first time to try to get a good quality vehicle and this truck has been in the shop more times now than any other new car I've ever owned (brakes 3 times, seat belts twice, oxygen sensor, etc). I'm tired of having to baby the thing in the morning until the knocking calms down. Its a damn truck and I should be able to get in it and go. Several of my neighbors have asked why my truck knocks and I don't want to tell them the truth. I even went so far as to purchase the 7yr/100k extended platinum warranty because I was so uneasy about going out of the factory 3/36 warranty period with these issues. One thing is for sure about this noise, it is DEFINITELY piston slap. It is not an exhaust manifold and its not the valve train or anything else. I've put a stethescope on it and its coming from the block. I've built several high performance engines for drag racing over the years and I've had this exact noise occur when I had excessive piston to cylinder wall clearance. That's great for drag racing an engine whose life span is a few hundred 1/4 mile passes, but it sucks for a daily driver. It will continue to wear the skirts an make the clearance even greater over a long period of time. I'm going to continue to try to get the dealer to handle this problem, but I really feel like they won't do what needs to be done - a new short block. I can't believe after only 3 years I may be truck shopping again.
I already have the 7/100k Platinum Extended care warranty and it won't do a damn bit of good. It only covers broken parts or "mechanical failure." My engine runs fine, it just sounds like crap. The problem is that I don't enjoy driving my truck anymore and I baby it until the truck warms up out of fear that I might make the problem worse. And it is getting worse with every mile I put on the truck. It didn't do it at all the first 10k miles, then it started doing it when it was 45 degrees or colder and now it does it after every time the truck has sit long enough for the block to cool down, even if its 95 degrees out.
The sad thing is that I paid way too much money for this truck because I thought I was going to get something better than the big 3. I could have bought a Silverado with more features for $24k. I paid $26.5 k for the Tundra with all of the "port installed" options, what a joke.
You're not alone. At 2,500 miles mine developed the piston knock. Now at 28,000 miles it's getting louder at start-up and takes longer to diminish.
For those members who have not had the experience of rebuilding engines and the "hands-on" assembly of pistons, rings, wrist pins, main journals, etc., I appreciate the "it's the manifold crack or the good old injector noise response". But this issue goes way beyond that.
If I had x-ray vision, I could probably see the small elliptical gouging that's taking place on my cylinder wall. Slow but sure, I'll lose a little compression, burn a little oil, and degregate a set of rings, not to mention the imbalance on my crankshaft. It may run for 100K+ miles, no argument there, but that's not my point.
I guess my point is that I feel your pain. We spent alot of money for a "qualilty" product. We spun that wheel and and got the 3% or less "imperfect" pistons that somehow got through quality control. The fact that we get the "normal" answer for the engine noise is basically translated "yeah, bad luck, too bad, that's a really expensive fix, live with it". It's bullsh!t, but our numbers are small compared to the folks with brake issues and so on.
Do I need to go into what happens when we try to trade these puppies in or sell to a private party? Nah, I'll save that for another vent session.
Just keep us posted on your plight and remember your not alone.
My "start-up knock" is a deep mechanical sound coming from the block. It goes away after driving a few miles. In my situation, I start up and within 1 or 2 minutes I'm at freeway speed of 70-80mph. It does sound a bit "dieselish" upon start up. The colder the worse it is.
I typically let oil pressure come up, (Mobil 1 5W-30), and then drive without getting on it too hard until the temp needle is at the "normal" resting point.
I'm not going to worry much about the knock. It does get worse with mileage, (louder now at 33K then when new). If it starts to get to "nervy" too me I'll do my investigation and trade it off when its warm to mask the noise.
I doubt Toyota will ever "own-up" to it being a problem since the vehicles will most likely pass or get close to the "normal expected life".
Since you live in Dayton and probably experience the same temperature extremes we do here in MO, you might want to consider letting the engine warm up a bit more before you drive off.
I typically let my engine fast idle until the rpm drops below 1,000 rpm. My thought is that I don't want loose pistons traveling any more than necessary in a loose condition.
Another unrelated reason I do this is because if I don't, when I shift into D or R something (transmission or torque converter) vibrates so badly that the steering wheel, entire dash board, and
console will buzz like a vibrator. Anything in the glove box that can rattle does rattle. If I let the engine warm up this doesn't happen.
Originally posted by Herb
.....
Another unrelated reason I do this is because if I don't, when I shift into D or R something (transmission or torque converter) vibrates so badly that the steering wheel, entire dash board, and
console will buzz like a vibrator. Anything in the glove box that can rattle does rattle. If I let the engine warm up this doesn't happen.
The dealer tells me it's just cold oil.
Herb
When I start the truck in a snow covered ski area parking lot and drive off, I have no rattle or vibration. I am using synthetic ATF, but you shouldn't have that vibration with standard ATF.
I agree with Ken. That serious of a vibration is abnormal in my opinion. Maybe check with another dealer.
I appreciate your advice Herb. When I go when its cold, I don't ever apply more throttle than necessary to achieve the desired speed. I can usually "feather-foot" it and minimize the knock a good deal before the engine gets rid of it for itself. If I do get into it when cold, it sounds bad.
The coldest morning to date this year has been -8 F. Glad I use Mobil 1. Makes me feel better that the lube is getting where it needs to be as quickly as possible. I put 0W-30 in my Wife's Tahoe last change. Might try it in mine if it is still real cold the next month or so. Just as a side note: My Wife's Tahoe has almost an identical sound in its engine when cold as well. My X F150 4.6L had a cold knock as well. Seems to be more and more common in several different makes of vehicles.
Originally posted by KLS When I start the truck in a snow covered ski area parking lot and drive off, I have no rattle or vibration. I am using synthetic ATF, but you shouldn't have that vibration with standard ATF.
Ken
Ken:
Thanks. I have Amsoil synthetic ATF in the transmission. I have no idea how this transmission would have behaved on the factory ATF. I changed over before the weather cooled off.
I intend to keep and eye on this and see if I can determine the temperature below which the vibration occurs. It may be cold oil in combination with some other condition. The transmission mount does allow for quite a lot of vertical displacement. This may be a factor that amplifies the vibration.
As an aside, as delivered, shifts were jerky to say the least. Since the synthetic was installed, shifting is seamless. I can't feel the transmission shift. If the fan clutch is engaged, I can hear the engine speed drop. Otherwise, I have to watch the tach to see if the transmission has shifted...it's that smooth.
I've been eyeballing the crew cab Chevy 2500 HD, nice looking truck. I've heard they rectified the piston slap and a few other items.
I get a kick out of the person saying the Tundra is a new design, how about the 4.7? It's been around for a while in service, they just decided to use it in the Tundra.
The 2500HD and 6.0 GM engine are a poor combination for towing, also. Truck's GCWR* is partly determined by the drivetrain's ability to pull that weight, and with the small engine and heavy truck, there's not much weight remaining in the GCWR for a medium to large trailer.
I've seen photos of GM engine cylinders with serious wear due to their piston slap, and have heard of some owners getting their choice of a 100k warranty or a new engine. Toyota piston slap is minor compared to GM's.
*GCWR is the true towing capacity. The Gross Combined Weight Rating is the maximum allowed weight of the loaded and fueled truck (including all options and people) plus the loaded trailer.
I've seen photos of GM engine cylinders with serious wear due to their piston slap, and have heard of some owners getting their choice of a 100k warranty or a new engine. Toyota piston slap is minor compared to GM's.
Ken:
Why do you say it's minor? If Toyota would extend our warranty to 100K (they should until they resolve the problem) or offer a new engine, would you then consider our problem to be equal to GM's? Is a problem only considered major when a manufacturer steps up to the plate and offers to do something about it? I think it's major, whether they acknowledge the problem or not. Any defect serious enough to sour a loyal customer, and cause embarrassment in owning that product should be dealt with appropriately by the manufacturer.
Bob
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I hear what you're saying. Let's hope that we can say that there are only a very small number of serious piston slap 4.7 engines, of course for you it was 100%.
Well my co-worker just went out and bought a new Dodge Ram 1500! After hearing the sound of my engine, he didn't even consider test driving a Tundra. Probably knowing about the cracked manifolds, brake issues, and water pump going out didn't help sell him on a Tundra either.
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I just wanted to get this back to the top and maybe to Toyota's attention. This truck is going to make Consumer Reports' "used vehicles to avoid" list if someone there doesn't start listening soon. I've had the piston slap and brake issues to deal with, as well as the cracked manifolds and interior rattles + numerous others. Let's get some of these problems "fixed" before everyone goes back to the domestic trucks. Have you seen any new Dodge Rams on the road lately? Toyota click here:
Hey Toyota Corporate! Take a look at this:
