No Loss in any power to date with mods.

[Hodgeee]

Ever since I got my Tundra, I wanted to install an aftermarket exhaust system. The truck always seemed to quite for a V8. Every vehicle I have owned, I have modified, but with the Tundra and the forums, I saw so many people complaining of loosing power and torque with all their mods. This has kept me at bay for a year and a half, leaving the vehicle completely stock, in fear of wasting money for little or no power gains, and maybe a loss of power. I finally had about $600 bucks put away and it was eating a hole in my pocket. I decided that I would at least give my truck a true V8 sound and decided on an exhaust. I was unwilling to pay the amount that all manufacturers have had on their duel systems. Non are real true duel systems, wich doesn't bother me, its just that I like the uniform look of two pipes comming out the rear or sides of a vehicle, but not their prices. I went to a trusted exhaust shop that I have had several exhaust systems done at. I talked to the rep their, and he had heard concerns from others here in Vegas with their Tundras, and he recommended that I go with a Flowmaster 40 series muffler, using 2" pipe going to 2&3/4" tips, and keeping the factory resonator. Just about every review I read, people stated that they lost low down torque, and this was a concern, but I decided I wanted the better sound. Now before I ever do any mod, I do either a dyno, or runs at the local track. I had done 4 runs on the quarter mile and posted times of

Slowest 16.4 at 83mph
Fastest 16.1 at 84mph

Considering this is at 2000 foot elevation, that equates to about 15.9 and 15.6 at Brothers Raceway in Cali. Not bad at all with a stock truck. I actually surprised a couple of older Mustangs, and a lot of Hondas and small Toyotas. I guess with the automatic, and starting at the line with about 3/4 throttle gave me the best results, jumping ahead of every vehicle I ran next to. I ran my truck before, the first year I got it, and floored it off the line, and the truck just seemed to bog down. I guess this is related to the throttle control I have read about. Well since getting my exhaust done it drones, but much less than any other vehicle I have exhaust work done on, and now I have a real mean sounding truck that others have complimented me on. I have felt no lose anywhere in torque, I have only noticed that the truck wants to peel out easier than before, and that it seems to pull a little harder after 3500 rpm. I ran the truck last week with the new exhaust and with the K & N filter drop in. 6 runs, new times

With stock filter
Slowest 16.2 at 84mph
Fastest 15.8 at 84mph

With K & N
Slowest 15.6 at 86
Fastest 15.2 at 87mph

Both times at strip weather was 64 degrees
With the filter and the exhaust, the vehicle feels like it has a whole different motor. A lot louder but better response, and power across the band. I don't know if the truck is running so strong due to fully being broken in(now 28000miles), or what, but I have never had this much gain from an exhaust system and a drop in K & N filter. I am totally befuddled with the performance gain. I have modified a Maxima SE, 2 Ford Mustang GTs, a Ford Bronco, a Ford F150, and a 2001 Camaro SS. Nothing has given this kind of gain without a supercharger. I figured maybe a 20 horsepower and torque gain, but that in no way would drop my 1/4 mile times down by almost a full second.

If anyone else has run at the strip and done mods, please post me your times, I would like to know what others are getting out of their vehicles, and if maybe everyone else has gotten these kind of numbers also. I will mention that this was the original air filter that came with the truck and it was pretty darn dirty when I pulled it, having never changed it. I just air pressure blew it out at 15,000 miles.

In largest part, I am glad I have no problems, and am wondering if people were all just speewing forth a lot of nonsense about all the loss of power. Or maybe some people went with just too big exhaust on their vehicles, loosing back pressure?

[speed25]

Nice report! I assume your initial runs were pretty close to the same temperature? I've already done the K&N and intake mod, now I'm really craving some exhaust improvement. The numbers on the JBA headers look awesome, but I haven't seen any dyno or strip results from those.

Congrats!

[HockeyFreak]

Finally someone with good numbers!!! Hodgeee, thanks for your in depth report.

[KLS]

Hodgeee,

Do you have 0-60' times? I think that those relate well to everyday driving.


Speed25,

If you believe that dyno graph from JBA, contact me...I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you, or maybe you'd prefer some nice Florida swamp land--meet me there at low tide.


Ken

[Hodgeee]

I don't even know how to get 0 to 60 times, but my last mustang was a 95 gt. I am now running just a hair faster than the mustang did in the quarter when it was stock. The acceleration from a stand still feels the same until I get to about 60 mph then the truck feels a lot slower. It is hard to compare the mustang to the Tundra though. I had the 5 speed mustang. I read a review on the 95 gt back when I had it, and those guys always seemed to run much faster than I ever could get it to go on my own. They posted 1/4 mile times of 14.7 on a stock 95 gt, and the fastest I ever ran was a 15.5 at 87mph, and even compairing it to running at see level the calculations only come to about 15 sec flat. I owned a Gtec meter that was supposed to measure 1/4, 0 to 60, and horsepower and braking distances, but everytime I ran it, it gave me huge varing numbers on the runs. I sold it when I sold my Maxima. The track seems to be the only solid proof, but you need to make sure that the temperature and the humidity are the same to ensure equal performance. When I ran my truck within a one month period the temperature showed exactly the same, but I don't know what the humidity was. I read a couple of magazine with Tundra 1/4 mile times, and saw a varied number between the magazines from 16.6 to 15.8 quarter mile times. I was glad to run faster than that. I think that the magazine guys didn't know to only give it about 3/4 throttle off the line.

I gave it 3/4 throttle off the line, and smashed it when I got over 2500 rpms.

I wanted to get the headers also, but $1000 for a pair of headers that you have to weld and need additional work done on them, is way to steep. I can't beleive that TRD is charging a fortune for some pipes that need work when you get them. I don't know if I will ever be willing to spend that much, and the JBLs are to expensive also. I put Stainless Steel, with internal Hot Coating equal length headers on my mustang, and they only cost $350 and only took me 2 hours to install them. I don't know where TRD gets off.

Oh yeah, one last thing, I forgot to mention that I modded the tube on the air box, by cutting the 90 degree bend on the outer wall of the engine bay, and cut just about all the hose off that goes into the box. I found that this seemed to be the biggest block off of air coming into the airbox, and I agree that the original airbox is a pretty good setup, compared to every other vehicle that I have ever seen. I don't think that those intakes are necessary for how expensive they are. I think that the parts for our import vehicles are way to expensive compared to the american vehicles, but this is actually the only vehicle I have had, that did not have several problems with these miles. I actually have had not one problem.

Getting back to the 0 to 60 times, I think but don't know, but I think that I am running just a little over 7 seconds. My Mustang said that it ran 0 to 60 in 7.1 according to Motortrend, but I was always depressed on how many people that I could not pull away from with that car. Accords, Camrys, and Jettas used to give me huge runs for my money. Every truck that I raced so far, I have completely smoked, leaving them well behind. At least the new mustangs will break 6 second performance numbers to 60.

[tremo]

Originally posted by Hodgeee
...and he recommended that I go with a Flowmaster 40 series muffler, using 2" pipe going to 2&3/4" tips, and keeping the factory resonator.

Excellent review Hodgeee! I too have a Flowmaster and I retained the stock resonator, but I have a few questions and comments that may benefit others:

1) Did you install an *original* 40 series or a *Delta Flow* 40 series? Check out: http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/web10/productsf5.html

The difference being "The 40 Series™ Delta Flow® is a milder sounding street and strip muffler that generates a powerful, aggressive sound outside the vehicle, a lower interior resonance while improving your torque and horsepower."

2) Was your "40 series" a 2" inlet and a dual 2" oulet?

I used a Flowmaster 50 series Delta Flow ("...same performance output as 40 Series, but milder on the outside of the vehicle, and is significantly quieter inside the vehicle") because I was concerned about too much interior resonance, but I used a 3" inlet and a dual 2 1/2" outlet because that's what they had in stock at the time (didn't wanna wait. Silly me!)

Now, I can't say I lost any power per se, but the feeling I have from the slight warbling sound when I accelerate makes me think I have too much (or I'm loosing?) back pressure? Could be due to the 3" inlet and smaller 2 1/2" outlets? Had I done my homework first (and found TundraSolutions last June!), I probably would have made some different choices.

I plan to get some JBA headers ($460 at http://www.store.yahoo.com/tundrasolutions/headers.html ) and bolt 'em up to my existing exhaust to see what type of "seat of the pants" performance gains I get.

So, if anyone has any experience re 40 series vs. 50 series w.r.t performance and interior noise, please share it as I'd be interested to know if in fact the "performance output" is the same for each as Flowmaster claims and if my issue is probably the mis-matched inlet/outlets. e.g. Perhaps the correct pipe size is 2" all the way?

Hey, so what's the factory pipe size anyway? I thought it was 2 1/2"? If so, ain't it interesting how Hodgee went with 2" and saw an improvement?!

Thanks and seee-ya!

Tremo

[Hodgeee]

It should be warned that I did use a Delta Flow, and the noise is still rather large. When I cruise down the highway at speed, I can barely notice any difference. This is the reason why I liked it so much, but when in town it always sounds mean, which is music to my ears, but may be too much for most others. I have always been into hotrodding, and the sound of a mean engine makes me swell with joy. If you want better performance but quite like sound I would recommend the 60 or 70 series. I have heard these on other trucks, meaner sound when you are on it, but almost stock noise levels for regular driving. That is what I put on my 96 F150, and I felt a huge rush of extra power down low, but the noise difference was almost nill, and no one even knew that I put on an aftermarket exhaust(70 series that is).

My system installer was definite that I not go bigger than 2" pipes, or he said that I would loose too much back pressure with a duel set up. He said the stock pipe was 3 inches into the muffler, and that actually two 1.75" pipes equalled the flow of a 3 inch single. He said that the biggest power gain was mostly from the muffler itself, but if you left the original pipe that connected together that you really would not loose hardly any back pressure. He stated that almost all smaller motors, even ours did not benifit with a large system, and that they have done many small V6 and V8 applications with smaller piping, leaving the owners happier, than the ones demanding large cool looking pipes. He said that he has had many people demand duel 3" pipes on stock motors, and then come back and complain that they did something wrong, hurting the performance of their vehicles. He actually had a muffler chart, that recommended the best type of exhaust system for a motor, depending on horsepower, and motor size. He stated that the horsepower level is the biggest determiner, and at what rpm the motor made that power.

Makes sense to me, and under the truck no one notices that I have only 2" pipes.

[Hodgeee]

Ive gone and done it now. I love the power so much that I made my self broke till next payday, I just ordered the JBA headers since I saw that everyone who posted about them seem to love them sooooo much. I have read good reviews and two dyno results from other members, and am impressed. I guess I'll just have to eat TopRamen for the next 10 days, and watch a lot of television. I can't believe that I just spent almost a $1000 on my truck, including the K&N and exhaust! I must be out of my mind considering that it is just a 4x4 pickup, and not a sports car!

I decided that I wanted to install them, and I could not believe that you would have to modify the TRD headers, and then get them professionaly welded. Good thing my dealership is upgrading my brakes with the new parts on monday, so that I know that I will be able to stop with the new found power!

[tremo]

Originally posted by Hodgeee
Ive gone and done it now. I love the power so much that I made my self broke till next payday, I just ordered the JBA headers since I saw that everyone who posted about them seem to love them sooooo much. I have read good reviews and two dyno results from other members, and am impressed. I guess I'll just have to eat TopRamen for the next 10 days, and watch a lot of television. I can't believe that I just spent almost a $1000 on my truck, including the K&N and exhaust! I must be out of my mind considering that it is just a 4x4 pickup, and not a sports car!

Ha! Looks like you got the Tundra bug Hodgee! Too funny...I saw you lamenting about the price of the TRD headers and that's why I posted the link to the JBA's. So, feel free to blame me if it makes you feel better...

Meanwhile, I just added the Hellwig anti-sway bar (an excellent mod, read it up on it!) and started to install my Ivan Stewart aero kit today. Um hold on....I think I've got the link here somewhere. Oh, here we go:

http://store.summitracing.com/search...earchtype=both

Hmmm...only $136.39 Hodgeee - get 'em while they're HOT!

Based on your excellent overview on your Flowmaster install, we'd love to here your viewpoints on the JBA's, so please pass on any installation tips, insights on performance gains, 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. once you get 'em installed. Oh, here are a few install tips on a thread I re-started:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...4119#post94119

Have fun...

Seee-ya!

Tremo

[Hodgeee]

Whats a matta witch ya, ya chying to kizz me wida lack of grundage, I'ze must be eatin?!?!

Thanks for the info, but I offroad too much to put the swaybar on the back, and I'm too lazy to disconnect it each time I go offroading. But unless I lower the truck, these things will never, what I exactly call, handle!

Thanks a lot for the link on tips for the Header install, but I have over $3000 in tools in my garage, I used to be a Ford mechanic, imagine that! That means with how often Fords are broken down, I got a lot of practice on working on cars! Not to brag on my tools(well a little), but I learned over the years, nothing beats having the right tool. I used to believe that all it took was, Brute Strength and Ignorance! Now my bones are too old, and cuts don't heal up as fast as they used to, and I sure hatted running back in forth to the store to get some new tool that would help doing some work. It just pays to have the right stuff in the first place, and it only took 10 years for me to get all those tools too.

[Scott Hawn]

I just installed Flowmasters American Thunder catback duals on my truck. The system comes with a 50 series muffler with a resonater attached upstream of the muffler , which puts 2 resonaters in the system. I feel no loss in low end torque or no real increase in power. The truck sounds great, barks when your on it , but quiet cruise speed. I love the system and would recomend it to anyone.

[v8Toilet]

Nice review! You’re a true hot rod man!

I once tried the TRD duals. What I got instead was a loss of my low end torque so much so that I couldn't spin the tires in a turn.

You have my interest especially in modifying the air box. I already have a base run (see signature) so maybe this spring I should just modify the air box like you have and take her to the track once again to see what happens.

I also want to see what the S&S headers are going to look like. With the proper headers and maybe a different muffler it might e worth the money!

[Hodgeee]

Hey, it's good to see that someone is running good numbers also. I saw a couple of other people post, and they all showed mid 16 second runs. I found that the throttle control made a huge difference in getting good numbers. If you don't do it right, the truck has always felt like a dog from a stand still. Its just about 3/4 throttle, until the truck hits about 2500, which is really quick, then mash to the floor, and hold on. I found that when I tried turning off the overdrive the truck lost a lot of speed. I also know that the 2001 and newer trucks rev about 200 to 300 rpm higher before they shift. I tried to manual shift and I kept hitting the rpm limiter, getting 17 second times, the shift point was too inconsistant. If I tried shifting at 5000rpm, the truck would hit the limiter. If I tried shifting at 4800, the truck would shift immediately. No mater what I tried manually the truck would always shift a little off time. I drove my partners 2000 tundra and noticed that it seems to shift right at 5000rpm, and doesn't give that little extra kick when it shif