Disappointed with vibration on a 2003!

[Taiga]

Sorry, I just got out of my truck. I am still vibrating.
Dealers said they called the “tech line” and are aware of the problem, but can not give me a timeline when the TSB is coming.
I will check with him again in a couple of months.
Keep calling your dealer! The squeaky wheel gets.....
Jerry

[CYCLONE 123]

I've been posting vibe problems under WHEELS & TIRES for several months and just now found I have company here at this topic. I also have had vibration problems since day one. I've got a 2003 2WD. I've been to 2 different dealers MANY times. I've got my second set of tires (6000 miles) on and the same vibes are still with me. I've had my tires road force balanced by 3 different shops. I've had the dealer swap wheels and tires from another new Tundra----problem still the same. I then think the problem is in the truck itself. I then drove a new 2WD just like mine and guess what,------vibrates just like mine!

So now I don't think it's just mine, but maybe all the new 2003s. This I find interesting,------When I go down the interstate I notice that the vibration changes as the road surface changes. I have the cruise on and maintain the same speed. There are times that the vibes feel almost gone and then with a slight change in road surface the vibes are back BIG TIME. An example would be, smooth blacktop surface going to a smooth concrete surface. I'm not even talking about any rough surfaces. My conclusion is that there is something about the suspension that makes the truck VERY SENSITIVE to the road surface.

Personally, I think the springs are too stiff. I am also going to unbolt one end of the rear shocks so I can see how stiff they are.

I know this from setting up suspensions on dirt bikes,----if you dial up too much compression and rebound on the shocks, the bike will be harsh over bumpy terrain. If you don't have enough compression or rebound then the result is a bouncy bike that is all over the place over bumpy terrain. When you get your settings right the result is a smoother, controlled bike over bumpy terrain. So in conclusion, I think the Tundra suspension is the reason why my Tundra has these vibe problems.

I'm reluctant to spend my money changing suspension components on a brand new truck especially when it's not really my job to figure out why this is happening. I'm not an engineer, just a guy trying to make sense of why this truck is a piece of crap.

I've wanted to have a Tundra ever since I first saw them in 2000 (kinda like a dream for me to make come true). Well, so far it's been a dream---------A NIGHTMARE!

[Dude Boy]

I've got a 2000 and have been on this site for over 3 years. I noticed the same thing when mine was new. It is very sensitive to road surfaces, and you feel vibration in the steering wheel as a result. Some had lateral steering wheel shake, which I've never had. That can be fixed by setting the caster to 2 degrees positive. I've just learned to live with the steering wheel buzz on coarse surfaces. Many felt at the time that the buzz was being transferred from the rack and pinion steering arrangement. 4WD Toyotas previously used recirculating ball steering boxes. However my T-100 (2wd) had rack and pinion, and did not "buzz" the steering wheel. It seems like Toyota would have addressed this by now, unless we are talking about a new problem here.

[Herb]

Originally posted by CYCLONE 123
I've been posting vibe problems under WHEELS & TIRES for several months and just now found I have company here at this topic. I also have had vibration problems since day one. I've got a 2003 2WD. I've been to 2 different dealers MANY times

Cyclone:

Most of the vibrations under discussion apply to 4wd trucks.
I recognize what you described because I can feel it too on my 4WD.

Dude Boy mentioned setting the caster at +2.0 degrees. That applies to a 4WD truck. In the case of a 2WD, the caster should be set at about +2.75 degrees or whatever is specified as a maximum value in Volume 1 of the Shop Manual for your particular model truck.

I doubt that most people realize there are 12 different alignment specs for 02 2WD trucks and 19 different alignment specs for 02 4WD trucks. I suspect the same is true for the 03 models.

Here's something you might try: Put 400 pounds of weight in the bed up against the tailgate. If you have the same rear springs I do, this should increase your caster angle by about + 1 degree. Then drive the truck and see if the vibration changes or is gone.

I discovered this quite by accident. Like you, I thought that the buzz was due to the R&P steering. When we received our first snow, I put 120 pounds of sand bags in the back of the bed to improve rear wheel traction. That's when I noticed the buzzing had subsided quite a lot. Then I added another 160 pounds which helped even more.

If this works for you, then the caster setting of your front wheels is WRONG...no matter what the dealers have been telling you.
Chances are that your camber and toe-in settings are out of whack too.

To put it as delicately as possible. screw the dealers. Go to a good alignment shop that has a Hunter 611 with a CAMM display. Have your truck aligned to DJ's specs, with the exception that the caster should be set to the factory specified maximum.

BTW, do you have a printout from an alignment machine indicating the caster, camber, and toe-in for each front wheel?
Having that data along with a copy of the factory specs would be helpful in diagnosing and solving your problem.

Herb

[CYCLONE 123]

Hi HERB,

It's been a while since I talked to you. As you can see I'm still trying to get this thing straightened out. I'm pursuing my new theory. Here it is-----

As I go down the highway at a fixed speed, my ride is almost vibe free. Then the road surface changes (still pretty smooth surface) and immediately I get alot more jidery with more vibes. The road suface changes again and the amount of vibes also change. If my wheels are in balance they will stay in balance no matter what the road surface. If the driveshaft is straight and in balance it too will be the same no matter what the road surface is. So what is changing? Suspension changes to deal with the road changes. For some reason this suspension is way more sensitive than anything I've ever driven. I've always thought the suspension was way too stiff (can hardly move the bumpers up and down). Got to be too stiff springs or too stiff shocks, or both.

So the other day I unbolt the rear shocks and try to move the rear of the truck. To my surprise it was real easy to move up and down! I expected to have a hard time moving the rear of the truck. Bolt the shocks back on and once again can hardly move the truck.

So now I feel very strongly that the shocks are the problem. The problem with this theory is from what I've read, most guys complain that the stock shocks are way too soft! Maybe we're both right. If everyone was complaining that the stock shocks were too soft, maybe Toyota listened and stiffened them up for 2003. That would explain everything!

How's that for a theory? I'm going to call Toyota today and see if the part numbers are the same. If they are different I'm going to assume they made them stiffer. Maybe then I'll order Bilstein TRD yellow/blue for the rear and see if I'm on the right track. If that helps I'll get the fronts also.

So HERB,---what do ya think?

[bri]

I hate to say it but I don't think the shocks are it. This seems to be a problem on both TRD trucks and non-TRD trucks, for all the years (2000-2003). The intersting thing to note about alignment is how Toyota changed the spec on 4x4's from 2000 to 2001 to increase the caster angle, even though the suspension of the truck didn't change. -Bri

[Erkme73]

Guys, I briefly skimmed the multiple pages on this topic and can only tell you of my (2WD) experience. I found some references here to the caster setting issue with the Tundra, but nothing that spells out what I'm about to write...

For me, and about 50 other Tundra owners, bumping the caster settings on the '00 specification (1.27 +/- .50 degrees) up to beyond 2 degrees caused an immediate resolution.

I spent nearly a year at the dealer, 10 sets of tires (50 tires!), three sets of rims, countless drive-shaft re-alignments, shock replacements, wheel balances, blah blah... and NOTHING improved the ride. I even started collecting data from other pissed off owners, and ended up with a database with over 50 owners. I had VIN, engine, transmission, tire, wheel, and various other data that I collected to try and establish a pattern. In then, it was DJ from Hunter who figured it out.

When I went to the dealer armed with the +2 degree caster settings, I encountered NO resistance. However, the tech was clueless on how to get his Hunter alignment machine to allow him to set the caster without affecting the camber. So, he gave up at 1.8 degrees. This improved the ride, but still the vibration was there.

Lesson: watch your tech carefully. Don't assume the Toyota dealer tech knows tire or alignment principals. It took several trips back, with step-by-step directions (from DJ) to get the alignment done properly.

Ever since, I have had ZERO vibration. Hope this helps someone.

[nhparrot]

I think there is some confusion in this thread, not all causes of vibrations are the same or are the symptoms. There are multiple issues that are all being discussed in this thread. Not a single issue.

1. A floorboard borne vibration felt by some in 4x4's when in 2wd. Some folks believe this is a front drive shaft viscous coupling issue. (Boxer, nhparrot, Taiga, jlarnold, bri, Offroad, Buzzard, Jlalib, rtm925, hgrace). The original topic in this thread

2. An un-diagnosed vibration. (tenntundra)

3. Vibration in floorboard and seat, happens in both 2wd & 4wd(mp3553)

4. Vibration solved by replacing tires (Herb)

5. An un-diagnosed vibration between 65 & 85 mph (jjcobra99)

6. An un-diagnosed vibration (jqqd)

7. Road surface induced vibration in a 4x2 (CYCLONE 123)

[CYCLONE 123]

This front end alignment thing sounds like a potential culprit. For me though, the vibes are felt mostly in the seat and armrest. Only rarely do I feel vibes in the steering wheel and even then it's not as much as the seat. So does this still count?

I'm just learning here but today I took names and numbers from my shocks. Rear----48531-A-070. These shocks say KYB and have nitrogen. Front-----48510-AF-090. These shocks say TOKICO gas filled. Is this what everyone thought I would have?

I called the dealer and asked to compare my shock numbers with previous year numbers and he couldn't. The only thing he could do was take my VIN number and tell me what I already had. Without a VIN number for previous years, he couldn't tell me what was used in other years.

I still think my suspension is where my problems come from. Could I be wrong?--------OH YEH !

[bri]

I have several different vibes. I get the floorboard vibes, but the one that really annoys me is the steering vibration (wheel shakes). I know that is an alignment issue (I already replaced the crap BFG's). The toyota regional tech's solution was to "drive with two hands on the wheel to keep it from shaking".

[Buzzard]

Originally posted by bri
"drive with two hands on the wheel to keep it from shaking".

YOUR KIDDING!!! DRIVE WITH 2 HANDS???-- Boy I wish they would have told me that. ---Buzzard

[bri]

Yeah he actually sat there in the truck and said that. Probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. That was the point that I realized Toyota wasn't going to be part of the solution, just part of the problem. -Bri

[mp3553]

That response was about as good as the one I recieved when I complained of the noise from the cassette tapes placed in the arm rest casssette holders. The vibrations would make all the tapes rattle something fierce...
Was told not to use the cassette holders!
What's the use of having it if you can't use it??

[Dude Boy]

So what is changing?

Cyclone 123:

The road surface?

I just learned to live with it, like all the other quirks this truck has.

DB

[Dude Boy]

Hey man, good to see you back! You can get a moderator to put in your original join date if you want. You were here when I came! After all the trouble you had, I'm surprised you're still driving a Tundra.

Dude