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Engine & DrivetrainDiscussions about the engine and drivetrain of your vehicle.
This is a discussion thread titled "Disappointed with vibration on a 2003!", within the Engine & Drivetrain forum, part of the Technical & Vehicle Assistance Forums category.
Thanks for the welcom Dude Boy - yeah, it's been a while. I'm not that hung up on join dates. I got pretty burned out on the site after the multiple restarts and crashes. I was a bit bored at work yesterday, so I decided to pop back in.
The only reason I still have my Tundras is because I was able to completely eliminate my vibration using DJ's caster settings and instructions. If I still had the vibes, I'd have a brand new Titan... believe me. It's not worth the frustration.
Glad to see so many of the original names still here...
Here's something you might try: Put 400 pounds of weight in the bed up against the tailgate. If you have the same rear springs I do, this should increase your caster angle by about + 1 degree. Then drive the truck and see if the vibration changes or is gone.
I discovered this quite by accident. Like you, I thought that the buzz was due to the R&P steering. When we received our first snow, I put 120 pounds of sand bags in the back of the bed to improve rear wheel traction. That's when I noticed the buzzing had subsided quite a lot. Then I added another 160 pounds which helped even more.
If this works for you, then the caster setting of your front wheels is WRONG...no matter what the dealers have been telling you.
Chances are that your camber and toe-in settings are out of whack too.
To put it as delicately as possible. screw the dealers. Go to a good alignment shop that has a Hunter 611 with a CAMM display. Have your truck aligned to DJ's specs, with the exception that the caster should be set to the factory specified maximum.
BTW, do you have a printout from an alignment machine indicating the caster, camber, and toe-in for each front wheel?
Having that data along with a copy of the factory specs would be helpful in diagnosing and solving your problem.
Herb
I agree 100%. I've been saying this for quite some time now.
Given the wheelbase of the access cab version, every 1" you depress the rear end, relative to the front end, increases caster by 0.47 degrees. If you don't think this matters, get some sandbags and see.
It's been a while since I talked to you. As you can see I'm still trying to get this thing straightened out. I'm pursuing my new theory. Here it is-----
As I go down the highway at a fixed speed, my ride is almost vibe free. Then the road surface changes (still pretty smooth surface) and immediately I get alot more jidery with more vibes. The road suface changes again and the amount of vibes also change. If my wheels are in balance they will stay in balance no matter what the road surface. If the driveshaft is straight and in balance it too will be the same no matter what the road surface is. So what is changing? Suspension changes to deal with the road changes. For some reason this suspension is way more sensitive than anything I've ever driven. I've always thought the suspension was way too stiff (can hardly move the bumpers up and down). Got to be too stiff springs or too stiff shocks, or both.
So the other day I unbolt the rear shocks and try to move the rear of the truck. To my surprise it was real easy to move up and down! I expected to have a hard time moving the rear of the truck. Bolt the shocks back on and once again can hardly move the truck.
So now I feel very strongly that the shocks are the problem. The problem with this theory is from what I've read, most guys complain that the stock shocks are way too soft! Maybe we're both right. If everyone was complaining that the stock shocks were too soft, maybe Toyota listened and stiffened them up for 2003. That would explain everything!
How's that for a theory? I'm going to call Toyota today and see if the part numbers are the same. If they are different I'm going to assume they made them stiffer. Maybe then I'll order Bilstein TRD yellow/blue for the rear and see if I'm on the right track. If that helps I'll get the fronts also.
So HERB,---what do ya think?
I don't want to sound like a "one solution fruitcake", but I don't think it's shocks, either. It doesn't fit the symptoms.
I think your front suspension has marginal stability. When rolling down a smooth road, it can feel fairly smooth. When you hit a rough road, the steering becomes unstable, and you feel both the vibration caused by the rough road and the oscillations caused by the instability. You won't necessarily feel it in the steering wheel, either.
What's the solution, if this is the case? Same as before, more caster.
This weekend I picked up my boat out of storage. I really expected the ride to be better with the extra tongue weight of the trailer. I had more vibration than ever! I was really bummed, but then I thought maybe it was because the tires on the trailer might have been flat spotted from sitting in one position for 5 months.
Is there a special machine that I would need to seek out to get the front alignment done correctly? I'm really finding a shortage of qualified mechanics lately! Are there special stats that a front end guy would not be aware of?
Originally posted by CYCLONE 123 This weekend I picked up my boat out of storage. I really expected the ride to be better with the extra tongue weight of the trailer. I had more vibration than ever! I was really bummed, but then I thought maybe it was because the tires on the trailer might have been flat spotted from sitting in one position for 5 months.
Is there a special machine that I would need to seek out to get the front alignment done correctly? I'm really finding a shortage of qualified mechanics lately! Are there special stats that a front end guy would not be aware of?
Go see this thread: DJ's Alignment Setting Recommendations Use the specs you find therein and find a shop with two things: 1) a Hunter aligner with a console mode 211, 311, 411, 511, 611, or 811; and 2) a technician who's willing to read this thread and do what it says. Good hunting.
Don't be surprised at the extra vibration you felt. The tongue of a trailer doesn't just add weight to the hitch of your truck. The trailer itself is a large, heavy, 2nd order spring/mass system. So, in very simplistic terms, you've hooked two weights to your hitch -- one directly, and the other through a spring. It will vibrate like a spring. If the "sprung" part of the weight is heavy, you'll feel it.
My truck is extremely smooth, but it vibrates like a paint shaker when I hook my trailer to it. The trailer is a tandem-axle flatbed, about 16 feet long, but it weighs 2100 pounds when empty.
Originally posted by DJ I agree 100%. I've been saying this for quite some time now.
Given the wheelbase of the access cab version, every 1" you depress the rear end, relative to the front end, increases caster by 0.47 degrees. If you don't think this matters, get some sandbags and see.
DJ:
That number works for an 02 regular cab 4x4 as well. I ran some sag tests by adding a known amount of weight and then measuring the body sag at the centerline of a rear wheel. This led to a graph indicating the change in caster for various load conditions. A sag of 1 inch equates to an increase in caster of about 0.43 degrees. A sag of 2.15" (413 pounds) increases the caster by 1.0 degrees. This may vary from truck to truck and model to model.
Cyclone: I had my truck aligned more or less to DJ's specs today over the dead body of an ASE certified alignment tech who didn't have a clue as to how to align a Tundra -- but claimed he did despite having absolutely no experience in such matters -- and fought me every step of the way. No matter -- all of the vibration I've been experiencing (buzzing that varied with pavement type) and had been masking with sandbags is GONE! It's like driving an entirely different truck.
Give it a try. It works!
Having said that, I think you will have quite an interesting time finding a Hunter 611 that comes equipped with an operator who has any brains at all. That's the problem around here. Just because an alignment shop has a Hunter 611 doesn't mean they know how to use it. That's what I discovered today.
So here we go again. How do we determine if an alignment tech knows his stuff? Ask questions you know the answers to.
I'm hoping that DJ will provide 2 or more questions plus answers that can be used to determine if a tech knows his stuff or is an idiot posing as an expert.
Thanks for the report Herb. That's precisely what I was getting at. Even though some may have have been told that their alignment was adjusted to 2.0 degrees or more, was it really? If it hadn't been for DJ's step-by-step instructions, printed out and handed to the tech, I'm sure I'd been one of those thinking the 2 degree solution was bogus.
DJ, I'm glad to see you're still here too. I liked the analogy you wrote describing the difference between positive and negative caster a few years ago: A negative caster is like the front wheel on a shopping cart, where a positive caster is like the front wheel on a motor cycle. Ever since, any time I push a shopping cart, I'm fixated on the front wheels watching them shake and shimmy.
If anyone on this entire website deserves kudos, it's you, my friend. You're my hero.
As Nhparrot said, there appears to be many different vibration issues under this category. He's right!
The one I'm addressing is the intermittent groaning/vibration sound while driving around 30 mph and goes away when the 4x4 button is pressed.
Anyway, the people at Walnut Creek Toyota, CA said they received a notice from Toyota yesterday. This entails changing the entire front differential. "New" parts were being ordered, so "it might take a while before we get everything in". Tech said after the "fix" the "wowing" noise should go away. We'll see what happens if and when the "fix" is made.
Definitely keep us posted, I have the same vibration as you have, as I originally posted, did the dealership say if this was toyota fix for all experiencinng that problem. I have my first oil change scheduled for this friday and plan on mentioning the vibration again to the dealership.
I don't know if the proposed "fix" was from Toyota. The tech said he had recently received the fix instructions so I'm assuming it came from Toyota. Don't get your hopes up too much as I believe others on Tundra Solutions have had their front differential changed w/out any success.
Well just received a telephone call today from my local toyota service manager and he advises that there is a new differential on order to correct this annoying vibration. I asked if this was just a new replacement differential or redesigned differential, he said that toyota has redesigned the front differential and it will be three to four weeks to get the new one in. The reason being is that the redesigned differential is on back order in Toronto with another 5 back ordered. The service manager said that toyota can't keep up the demand for this redesigned differential as the vibration problem has been reported on numerous occasions across Canada and Toyota has recognized the problem. Hopefully this is so and I will keep my fingers crossed.
I have a 2003 Tundra stepside with the same vibration between 25-40 mph, it goes away in 4 wheel drive.Talked to Toyota about problem and they are aware of it, told no SB yet but many complaints.Have appointment with the tech rep on 5/23.
