Love and Hate JBA Headers

[Hodgeee]

Well Finally got my Headers as of 1:30 yesterday and decided to put them on by myself. Boy that wasn't the smartest idea. If you don't have a shop to work in, by all means make sure someone is there to help you. Started install by 7:30am, finished everything by 5:30am, and I used to be a pretty good mechanic. Good thing I got a lot of tools, and specialty tools. They say that regular hand tools will do, Yeah for most of it! Mostly cause I was so tired from climbing under the truck, then climbing back out for another wrench or what not, then climbing back. I could have nocked off 4 hours or more with someone to hand me tools, rags and what not.

I had sprayed all the factory bolts with Liquid wrench, and let them soak for about an hour before I started, and everything came off with no problems. After taking off my original exhaust, I found some weld and design errors on these headers, plus mismatching parts. I had this drop shipped directly from JBA. It turned out that JBA gave me the wrong size bolts, they would not fit in the heads, then they gave me nuts to go on the long bolts to hold the header to the y-pipe that were too small to fit the bolts. So guess what, I already tore my truck apart, and had no idea that the bolts were too big, kind of hard to find out until you compare them with the factory studs. So now I decided that I would use the factory studs and nuts, had done this with many a header install before and never ran into a problem, so I figured oh well give it a try. The passenger side bolted up so easy I couldn't believe it, and the bolts were all easy accessable on that side, I'm figuring, great this is going good. Come to the driver side, and cant get two bolts in on the bottom, cause why, the holes are too small for the Studs to fit in them. Had to unbolt it, take it out and drill it. Now the studs fit, and I ran into the motor mount on the driver side that everyone warned me about. Hollllllllllllly Toledo! If you don't have a 5degree closed end ratcheting wrench in 14mm, LOOOK OUT. If you guys buy these headers and don't have this wrench, I highly suggest you get one, and Box End wrenches with about 1/2" rises on them really help also. Now with these problems I am figuring that there must be a bend in this or some foul up, but all the exhaust pipes line right up with the cylinder head. Finally got the headers on all snug, start to put the cat back on, and now two of the holes are a little too small and the large bolts won't fit. Luckily the header flange point right at the ground so that I could drill out these two holes. I had to pause for a little break to call someone, and then I finally finished up.

Well now that I was pissed from earlier, I contacted JBA, calling their number, and someone from customer service answered, and I explained the problem and asked what they would do about it and what was going on. We verified that the headers were specifically for my truck, they appologized for the problems and then asked me to take the headers off, and mail them back to them, so they could see what was up. Now at this point, I said that there was no way in hell that I was going to take these back off and then put my stock stuff back on. I asked for maybe a small refund of part of the purchase price, for the parts that I needed to go buy. Then the guy on the line said that what I told him sounded far fetched, and that they laser cut and drill out the holes, and the part is inspected 3 times to make sure there are no problems. I even told him that I looked over the Headers before installing, and everthing looked OK. The holes just barely fit the stock studs, and the holes that would not work, looked as big, but the difference was soooooooo small that I could not see it by the human eye. The guy then asked me if they fit on the truck now, I said yes, then he hung up on me. I called back about 3 times and no answer!!!!!!!!!!!! (Steam coming out of my ears)

I finally got everthing put together, showered for about 1 hour to get the grime off my entire body, then went for a test run. No leaks anywhere! I drove down to get some food, and drove normal and couldn't feel any difference! Was thinking, I hope I just didn't?!.?!. On the way home blasted it about 3 times, and Yeah Baby, made a real strong difference in the midrange, and pulled considerably stronger. There was no mind manipulation on this one, I could really feel the difference. Later I returned some rented videos and drove aggressively, not flooring it, but giving considerable more throttle, and you really feel it from a stand still to about 3500 rpm! Just feels so much better in that midrange. I noticed also when flooring it, it gives a little more top end rush too!

My Review= Pretty good performance gain for the price, I hope everyone doesn't run into the problems that I had! More problems than with any performance part that I bought for initial install. Really dissappointed on customer service of JBA. Isn't it strange that something that is supposed to be perfectly made, laser cut, and created on a jig for perfect allignment would have so many problems. Well, one of them bolted right up, and was real easy to access the bolts, better than the stock pipe. If you can afford to have someone install this for you, I highly reccomend it!

Will run at the track within a month or so, will post my new 1/4 mile times then. So far best run at 58 degree weather with 8% humidity= 15.28 at 87mph. Unfortunately, with the temperature rising, I will not be able to get a good comparison number with those temps and humidity levels!

[HockeyFreak]

Great write up!!! Thanks!! I will have to check mine closely when I get around to ordering them.

[KLS]

Thanks for the report.

We need an offset ratcheting 14mm box end, and what other special tools?


Ken

[v8Toilet]

Hey Hodgeee,

I’m glade to read that you got a performance gain with those headers even though you had to go through l-l ell to get there. I would bet that you could get a 15 flat at 88-89 mph. I guess from your evaluation that those JBA headers boost low and mid range torque more than anything just like the dyno graph on their website shows. I'm going to hold out a little longer for the S&S headers and if they blow us off one more time I'm going to get a set of JBA headers too.

BTW I messed around with that pulse regulator and turned it counter clockwise another 1/4-turn and the difference is very noticeable. The engine runs smoother and the low-end torque seems to be much stronger. I assumed it was just a fuel pressure regulator but I guess not. Either way my motor likes the setting I have it at right now much better (3/4-turn from stock).

I also modified the air box like you did cutting the 90* bend off inside the fender and opening up the top of the part inside the box a little and that also seemed to boost my low end torque even more. I swear I can feel a difference! I did this before I changed that pulse regulator setting too. The funning thing is when I removed the bottom of the air box as a test during the summer of 2001 the truck felt like it lost low-end torque and I confirmed this when I took the truck to the track. With the lower section of the box removed I ran my slowest time with the lowest mph. It was on a cool night too and the truck was moving down the track so I don't think that engine temperatures hurt the power that much during that run.

I will confirm my but-o-meter when I take it to the track next month!

[Hodgeee]

Good to hear that you got a gain from the airbox mod. Surprizing that so little could make a difference. I have been considering the supercharger now, since I sold my mustang. The insurance was eating me up, and two car payments was the pits. I actually want to get an older fastback mustang to play with, thats why I decided to sell the mustang, besides the insurance was twice what the truck was. Now that I cleared up that two payments, it will be real easy to save up for the supercharger. It would take me about 3 months to afford it! The only thing is with this ripoff in gas prices, and you have to use superunleaded with the supercharger. I don't know, but being single the money for the gas would only cost me about $40 more a month. Not too bad considering all the other stupid stuff I waste my money on, like cigs.

Oh yeah, getting a small header leak by the rear cylinder on the driver side. I will retorque the headers, like the JBA instructions say to do, tommorrow morning. I hope this is not a bad sign. The nice part is that with all headers, they recommend that you recheck the torque on them once a month, with how hard it was to put them on, I was not looking forward to this at all. But after the install, I found that I can easily reach all the bolts with a box end wrench from the top of the motor. They are all easy to access with the design of the Header. This means that it will only take about 5 minutes to check the headers each month.

If anyone reading this has the headers, have you had any leak problems, and do you actually have to retorque them once a month. The stock manifolds, are a pipe style design, that is not much different than headers, and the headers flange looks thicker and better than the simple flange design of the stock design. I am thinking that with these that you should not always have to recheck them, considering what the stock ones are like. Just maybe break them in, let them go over the heat cycle several times, then one last torquing! At least I hope!

[woody1]

Great write up. Yep, the motor mount is a bear. Like posted earlier for anyone else, loosen the mounts and raise the engine; 15 minutes will save 45.
Only re-torque I've had to do is the driver-side Header to cross-over. I really need to double-nut this; if I had it to do over again I'd go all out and install with a set of STAGE-8 fasteners

[Dude Boy]

You might already be in trouble if you've got a leak. Did you put a straight edge on them to make sure the flanges weren't warped before you put them on? They claim the flanges are milled, but mine looked like someone held them up to a sanding belt and kept rocking them around while sanding. I called JBA and they agreed to replace them even though I bought them second hand. I was in a hurry to get them put on so ended up taking them to a machine shop and had them surface ground. That set me back another $90, so was getting pretty discouraged.

If an old fart like me can put them on, anybody should be able to do it. I didn't have any help, just took my time. I don't have any special tools and didn't raise the motor any. It would have helped to have had a medium length 6pt 14mm 6 point socket. No problems with the laser cut holes on mine. The holes weren't elongated like the stockers so I was a little nervous, but they were "dead nuts" right on.

I retightened mine before I ever drove it. I ran it at a fast idle till they quit smokin' (from the never seize) and then let it cool completely. I tightened them every day or two until the gaskets started to take a set. Like you say, it just takes a few minutes with a box wrench. I've had mine on about 4-5 months and I still go over them once in a while just to make sure, but I'm the kind of guy that wakes up 2 or 3 times every night just to make sure the alarm clock is still set! Unless you used the metal Toyota gaskets, you need to retorque often. My theory is if you let it start leaking, you will ruin the gasket. The flame coming out of those ports is very hot.

Also make sure that you follow their advice about bending the shifter cable bracket for clearance. See link to my picture below.

I saved up the $4000 for the S/C and then decided I couldn't handle the mileage and extra fuel costs. Ended up spending the money on some new fenders, box, and running boards for my Ford.

Good luck with the track times. Have you tried running some low profile 14" tires on the back? If I go to the track, that's what I'm going to try.

[TundraSoul]

I'd don't recommend anyone ever install headers by themselves. I'm surprised you even finished, good job, and a great write up.

Originally posted by Hodgeee
Well Finally got my Headers as of 1:30 yesterday and decided to put them on by myself. Boy that wasn't the smartest idea. If you don't have a shop to work in, by all means make sure someone is there to help you. Started install by 7:30am, finished everything by 5:30am...

[Hodgeee]

I put started at 7:30am and finished at 5:30am, it really was 5:30pm. Took about 10 hours, including going to the store to get the correct size nuts for the header to y-pipe bolts.

I didn't have to jack the motor up, it only took about 15 minutes to get those 2 bolts on the driver side, just kept busting the knuckles, and scraping the skin off my hands. The tools I had fit fine in there, I just had to go from the wheelwell, and remove one of the rubber sides, then I was able to reach them allright.

I was actually thinking of going with the metal toyota gaskets. They remind me of these brass gaskets that are guaranteed not to leak. I have used the brass crush gaskets before, and they do work very well.

I think the leak is actually at the flange to y-pipe, cause the ticking noise is way too fast for one or even two cylinders. What I also did is reved the motor from the 500rpm idle to 1000rpm, and the ticking noise barely increased speed. When you have one cylinder leaking, the noise is slow ticking, then if you rev it a bit, you can hear the speed of the tick increase with the rpms. I also remember that I had a real hard time trying to tighten the flange to y-pipe bolts on the driver side. On the passenger side I just rested the top wrench on the side of the motor to torque it, but the driver side the wrench rested against brake lines, so I was scared to torque em down. I just did the best that I could. I got a friend who's truck we are working on tommorrow, coming over in the morning, and we are going to retorque the whole thing to make sure. Since others may be wondering if this is a problem, I will post about it tommorrow also.

[dpeete]

Things that make you say "Hmmmm".

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...5&pagenumber=2

And I have purchased a second airbox to begin the mad scientist experimentation. Now I just need my wife and 1 yr old daughter to go visit family for a weekend so I can play!

Originally posted by v8Toilet
Hey Hodgeee,

I also modified the air box like you did cutting the 90* bend off inside the fender and opening up the top of the part inside the box a little and that also seemed to boost my low end torque even more. I swear I can feel a difference! I did this before I changed that pulse regulator setting too. The funning thing is when I removed the bottom of the air box as a test during the summer of 2001 the truck felt like it lost low-end torque and I confirmed this when I took the truck to the track. With the lower section of the box removed I ran my slowest time with the lowest mph. It was on a cool night too and the truck was moving down the track so I don't think that engine temperatures hurt the power that much during that run.

[Hodgeee]

Everything is nice and tight, and I still heard the ticking noise. After driving around a while it was really irratating me, so I pulled over looked around, and guess what, It was a vacuum line that was unplugged on the top of the motor. I must have done this reaching into the motor to torque the nuts. Plugged the hose back in and zowey, fixed it. Truck runs great, no noise, and the truck at moderate throttle accelerates much better. To drive the way I do normally, it just takes a little less throttle than it did before. When the truck was stock, it got about 14mpg even, then after the airbox mod and exhaust system I got 14.8mpg average. I am real curios to see what my mileage goes to here with normal driving.

I did notice before the install that there was small curvature to the head to header flange, but figured that the bolts would torque it flat. I installed it anyway, and there are no leaks!

[Drhrsh]

I just completed installation of my JBA Headers today. I read all the comments on this thread and have to admit I was concerned. Let me start by saying everything went very well, the complete installation took 4.5 hrs. I have a 2000 Tundra with 34K miles.

I have to qualify this by saying I am fortunate enough to have a twin post lift to work under. I am not a professional mechanic, but at 51 yrs old have earned the priviledge of the lift.

First of all, start by removing the front wheels, and both rubber "aprons". They are easily removed by prying the push 'bolts' with a screwdriver. I removed the top plastic bolts only and let the aprons hang down. I broke a few plastic 'bolts' but I'm off to Checker tomorrow to pick some up. The removal of these makes life easier. Many of the nuts are easily accessible thru these openings.

I found disconnecting the O2 sensors on the stock manifolds to be one of the most difficult parts of the job! The electric connectors require squeezing the release lever while pulling the connector loose. Tight quarters and not fun.

A mid length 14 mm socket is the ticket for removal of the two nuts on the drivers side, just above the motor mount. I did not remove motor mounts as suggested..be patient. I also found a long extension ( mines almost two feet ) and universal makes removal of a lot of the nuts easy. You can work from the outside of the vehicle through the 'apron' openings.

I used a 9/32- 1/4" drive socket for removal of the studs. It needs to be a 12 point socket, and will fit if lightly tapped on with a hammer. Made stud removal a snap! A metric size may work, but all my sockets are 6 point and wouldn't fit.

Installing the JBA's goes very smoothly. Fit was excellent. Some of the bolts are more easily tightened from above. Again a long extension and universal makes the job easier. Some are only accessible with an open/boxed end wrench, so accurate torque is a guess.

I only slightly bent the bracket which holds the shifter cable on the drivers side, and used zip ties to keep the cable away from the header. Theres a handy fuel line (?) and bracket nearby which allows you to 'pull' the cable toward the fender.

Hope these tips will help someone else contemplating the job. E-mail me with any questions.

Dave

[Hodgeee]

I wish I had a lift in my garage. The rubber fender flaps were the best area to get off almost all the stock bolts. I never touched the motormounts either. I guess I just got a fluke header, that somehow made it through the process. The stock studs, and bolts work real fine also. I would have rather used the larger bolts that were included, but like I said, they would not fit into the head, and I would have had to drill out all the holes in the header to get them to even fit into the header holes. They must have just accidently gave me the bolts for another truck by mistake. No big deal now that the job is done, and everthing works fine. It only took 2 hours to take off the original exhaust manifolds, and move the lower exhaust out of the way. I thought for sure that I would have been done in 4 hours or less. Probably would have if I didn't have to retorque the old studs back in, and then drill out the holes in the header. My fault I guess, after running into the first problem, I should have fully checked out the headers. Now if you got it done in 4 1/2 hours, that is something to know to bargain for, for those that will get them installed proffesionaly.

[Insane Elmo]

I am glad I wasn't the only one with all these problems when installing the JBA's Headers. The first thing I said to myself before installing these headers were, "I am not take the stock studs out of the engine." I was afraid that I am going to break one of the stud, and that would suck if it did.

I had several problem when install the headers, one of the header flange was not flat, the o2 sensor cross treaded on the stock header, the flange that connect the header and catalyic converter bolt was strip "was on too tight. and the gasket from jba was ripe.

This was an install from hell, it took me and a friend almost 7 hours to complete.

Oh well, at least it save me about $500 buck for someone to install it. Plus i got a alittle more horse out of it, and that is what matters.

[Dude Boy]

So are they still sending out new ones with warped head flanges? Mine were made in about September '01 and they told me that all the newest ones are machined or milled to be flat. I don't like the idea of tightening things by turning bolts into aluminum threads. That's why they come with studs in that location. It's really easy to screw up the threads and I was worried that the bolts may not have the correct "reach." My new headers were full of all the junk that came from them sanding down the head flanges. Also there was a lot of flashing, welding wire, and other junk sticking around the ends of the tubes in the collector and "fire cone" area. I took a lot of pains to clean all that stuff out before I put them on because I didn't want it ending up in the catalysts.

If you see some metal or weld bead hanging over inside the threaded holes for the O2 sensors, that should be cleaned up to avoid stripping the threads on the sensors. Some of the first guys here to put on JBA's ran into that same problem. I put my O2 sensors in before installing the headers. The wiring on the left side was just barely long enough to reach.

Also I would have been happier with the genuine Toyota head pipe gaskets. The ones in the kit are the same ones that you get at NAPA and aren't a wound gasket like the originals. They don't center up on the flanges quite as well as the originals. Even if you pulled the bolts up on the head pipe flanges until there was no gap, you need to go back and retighten those after a few days of running. You will be surprised at how loose the bolts will be. The gasket will continue to take a set even though you really reefed them down!

Several have mentioned breaking the plastic buttons on the rubber splash shields by prying them off. If you release them on the inside they will pop right out without breaking. If you don't have a hoist, you can try what I did. I ran the front wheels up onto some large wooden blocks that are maybe 6" or so thick. That gives you more room underneath for your creeper and work light. I had a little bit of trouble getting the heat shields off due to tight clearances. The shifter cable on mine didn't require wire ties to hold it away from the header. I'm 57 and put these on by myself, but I don't think I'm the oldest. I'm pretty sure that Yellbird has me beat by a few years, and I think he put his own on too. Does anyone else have the uncoated JBA's like me?