Oil sludge build up

[sjpmartin]

My brother has 56K miles - on Feb. 11 it just quit on him - it still is in shop/dealership. The cam bolt broke and cam shaft seized. Toyota claims this is due to oil sludge buildup saying it hasn't been maintained - that's a bunch of bull. It is still under man. warranty and they refused to fix it under warranty - sounds like the trouble they've had with a couple of their other engines.

Has anyone heard of a similar experience with the Tundra? We are gathering info. His "claim" is still in the hopper under advisement from a Toyota cust. service rep. he has been dealing with from day one.

Moderators Note: Thread was moved to the Engine & Drivetrain Forum for better exposure and replies. PM was sent to the thread starter of its relocation, --- Possum

[KLS]

Which vehicle and which engine does your brother have?

The 4.7 V8 and the 3.4 V6 don't make sludge the way the 1MZ 3.0 V6 and the 5SFE 2.2 Four do.

I've heard stories, and don't know the real reason. Some say that the camshaft drive gears of the Toyota engines shear the oil down to a lower viscosity, then the sheared viscosity index improver polymers oxidize and form the sludge. The heat of the crowded Sienna engine compartment make things worse. If a good conventional oil is changed every 3000 miles in these engines, they're usually OK. If a person goes to Toyota's 7500 mile recommended oil drain inteval, they may be in trouble. A good synthetic oil will be better at the 5000 or 7500 mile ODI. A low grade synthetic may not be much better than a conventional oil.

Take a look down the oil filler tube on your Tundra. Does it look clean and sludge free? Remove a valve cover to be sure.

This product really does work to safely and completely remove the sludge.
http://www.auto-rx.com/
http://www.auto-rx.com/pages/applications.htm


Ken

[Dude Boy]

I had some white goop "emulsion" on the inside of my oil filler cap on the last change. I changed at 3300 miles, but had been doing more short trips than usual. Evidently I'm not getting the engine warm enough to drive off all the water. I'm starting to get concerned that I might have more blow-by now than I did, due to increased piston noise and resulting ring wear.

[KLS]

Dude,

I've also heard good reports of Auto-Rx removing the carbon that bakes into ring grooves and thus restoring the ring sealing. Anyway, the stuff has a money back guarantee if it doesn't work, but you do lose your shipping cost.


Ken

[Red Hornet]

sjmp-,
If your brother has been using Toy service at the recommended intervals or if he has the oil & filter receipts that would cover the Tundra recommended mileage changes, then there should be no warranty problems.

As for me i dropped back from the ~5K miles Mobil 1 Syn & Mobil 1 oil filter to 3.5K miles change with Castrol Blend & Toy filter because i want a more frequent visible check on the oil & filter condition.

BTW, at the last 60K service performed at ~69K Poway Toyota, they did not change the air filter. Upon finding this out, i changed the oil & filter and it looked "overly" black so i suspect they did not do this service either. I e-mailed the other TS.COM using this dealer and got back from one they did not trust this dealer either due to other service issues, etc.

At ~70K the Hornet has no known problems nor does our RX at ~55K.

Hope you get some relief from Toy.

Cheers,
-RH

[Taiga]

I was changing oil this weekend and I found some yellow waxy stuff inside the oil cap. Take a look at the picture in my photos and give some advise if you can.
Thank you!

[Dude Boy]

Originally Posted by Taiga

I was changing oil this weekend and I found some yellow waxy stuff inside the oil cap. Take a look at the picture in my photos and give some advise if you can.
Thank you!

I get this in my cars if I do short trips and the engine doesn't get warm enough to drive off condensation from the crankcase. Water is a by product of combustion, and some always finds its way past the rings and into the crankcase. You might want to change your oil more often during the winter months, especially if you are running just short trips. What you see in the cap is what I've described in my earlier post. Here's a clip from it:

I had some white goop "emulsion" on the inside of my oil filler cap on the last change. I changed at 3300 miles, but had been doing more short trips than usual. Evidently I'm not getting the engine warm enough to drive off all the water.

[Two4X4]

I could be wrong, no claim as an expert, but I have never heard of Mobil 1 sludging---I don't care what kinda cam gears and whatnot is going on in there. Nothing is worse than a motorcycle tranny and I have been and still do use Mobil 1 15W-50 car oil in my bikes for the past 23 years or so and I have used Mobil 1 in every car/truck I have owned since I discovered the stuff. Bike engines (with common transmission--shares the engine oil) I have been into that used Mobil 1 were sparkling clean. I run 5,000 mile oil changes since I live down a dirt road in my cars and prior to that used 7,500.
The yellow/white stuff is moisture. You need to run the engine long enough to cook the moisture out. If this is a problem for you then you need to change oil more often. I know it is PC to claim all oils are good and just change it every 3,000, I am not PC and that is bunk. Oils are not all created equal. I am, among other things, a mechanic but not a auto mechanic expert but certainly not ignorant. I also worked for a major oil company and briefly for that company as a chemist trainee. Oil tests I saw verified this.

[Stooge]

All BS. If your service records show you changed the oil and filter ever 7500 miles, per the Toyota Maintenance Schedule (dino or synthetic), you are covered. I would ask for an "in writing" statement from the dealership that they denied warrenty covered for "XYZ" reasons. They'll never do it if you changed the oil and filter every 7500 miles. Change the timing belt when they fix the motor.

This motor runs darn cool. Lots of room under the hood, a water to oil cooler behind the oil filter and a 180 degree thermostat. It was specifically designed to run under severe conditions and stay cool. If this motor is a "sludge monster," I would have to believe that all motors are "sludge monsters." Sounds like an oil passage is blocked or a bearing is spun, starving that area of oil, or simply a defective part.

[KLS]

Originally Posted by Two4X4

I could be wrong, no claim as an expert, but I have never heard of Mobil 1 sludging---

Even Mobil 1 will sludge if run way, way, too long...but here's Mobil 1 good for 18,000 miles in a Chev engine
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html


sjpmartin,

Let us know the outcome of your brother's claim. There is a way the engine could be seriously sludged...if the oil change shop just did a compter oil change...didn't touch the engine but printed an invoice and collected his money. (Old timers call this the "Parker" oil change...just a fountain pen record in the maintenance log.)


Ken

[DJ]

Originally Posted by KLS

Even Mobil 1 will sludge if run way, way, too long...but here's Mobil 1 good for 18,000 miles in a Chev engine
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html


sjpmartin,

Let us know the outcome of your brother's claim. There is a way the engine could be seriously sludged...if the oil change shop just did a compter oil change...didn't touch the engine but printed an invoice and collected his money. (Old timers call this the "Parker" oil change...just a fountain pen record in the maintenance log.)


Ken

I do a "DJ" change, meaning I do it myself so I know it's done right.

[KLS]

DJ--a tire balancing question:

How much weight is OK, and how much weight will it take for you to tell the tire buster to put that tire back in the storeroom and to find you a different new tire?

I know it will relate to tire size...any simple rule of thumb relating tire size to max acceptable balancing weights?

I've noticed that some brands usually take very little weight to balance, a sign of quality manufacturing. Michelin, even my OEM Bridgestones, while other brands often take a lot of weight. The private label Kellys that the local tire shop sells (Les Schwab's Wild Country) seem to require more weight.


Ken

[DJ]

Originally Posted by KLS

DJ--a tire balancing question:

How much weight is OK, and how much weight will it take for you to tell the tire buster to put that tire back in the storeroom and to find you a different new tire?

I know it will relate to tire size...any simple rule of thumb relating tire size to max acceptable balancing weights?

I've noticed that some brands usually take very little weight to balance, a sign of quality manufacturing. Michelin, even my OEM Bridgestones, while other brands often take a lot of weight. The private label Kellys that the local tire shop sells (Les Schwab's Wild Country) seem to require more weight.


Ken

I've never received a "good" answer to this question when I asked the training instructors at Hunter. I don't think there is a good answer.

I would be much more concerned about the radial force uniformity of the tire, which the Hunter GSP9700 can test. A tire can be "uniform" in terms of radial force variation and still require several ounces to balance. Two or three ounces of imbalance in a forty pound tire seems reasonable to me.

I cure the problem in a fairly simple way -- I buy ONLY Michelin tires. I've never had a bad one and I've bought them for more than twenty years.

[Stooge]

DJ

I must get the bad Michellins. The local Mr. Tire put LTX's on my Sequioa. One tire had a lot of weights and the truck had vibrations. We checked the rim, it was pretty close in terms of run-out. We spun and matched balance and road forced balanced serveral times on the machine. Still had to "balance" with alot of weights. We got a new tire and it balanced with almost NO weight. Needless to say, the original tire did not go back on the truck!! Had a similar experience at Sam's Club when I bought the "XLT's." They didn't have a Hunter machine, but alot of weights went on one tire. I had them match balance (spin the tire) several times, no real improvement. A new tire fixed this. Thus, at least for me, the Michellins are good, but I got some bad ones - unfortunitely - 100% of the time for me!!

Mike

[DJ]

Originally Posted by Stooge

DJ

I must get the bad Michellins. The local Mr. Tire put LTX's on my Sequioa. One tire had a lot of weights and the truck had vibrations. We checked the rim, it was pretty close in terms of run-out. We spun and matched balance and road forced balanced serveral times on the machine. Still had to "balance" with alot of weights. We got a new tire and it balanced with almost NO weight. Needless to say, the original tire did not go back on the truck!! Had a similar experience at Sam's Club when I bought the "XLT's." They didn't have a Hunter machine, but alot of weights went on one tire. I had them match balance (spin the tire) several times, no real improvement. A new tire fixed this. Thus, at least for me, the Michellins are good, but I got some bad ones - unfortunitely - 100% of the time for me!!

Mike

I'm not surprised. I would be surprised if Michelin had the same defect rate as its competition, but it doesn't.

What amazes me, and we see it quite often on TS, is that people buy tires because of their APPEARANCE, or because they are CHEAP, and then bet their lives that it was a good choice. Consider: Firestone claimed that its "exploder" problems are fixed, even though they never found the cause of the problem. How's that again? And people still buy Firestone tires?

Having seen literally THOUSANDS of tires on balancers and such, I buy what I know to be high quality. My concern isn't appearance, or sex appeal, or cost, it's my LIFE.