Synthetic or Not in Extreme Cold

[Cosmo]

I have a 03 Tundra V8 with 1300 miles. I need to make my mind up on synthetic or not to synthetic. I live in Duluth MN so we get temps down to -30 with -20 not uncommon for a few days at a time then it may get up to 0. Summer time it does get into the 90s. It sounds like a 5w30 synthetic would be the way to go but I do not want to screw up my warranty. I do a lot of in town driving so I would normally go with an interval of 3K with non- synthetic oil.
What would be a good interval if I switched to synthetic say Mobile 1 and still not have a problem if I need to use my warranty?
This forum is great. My wife thinks I am nuts for how much time I spend on it.
Thanks all ahead of time.

[zebra1550]

You won't screw up your warranty at all by switching to synthetic. Toyota sets guidelines as to the types of oil you can use. I can tell you that Mobil 1 will far exceed they're minimum standards. I use Mobil 1 here in Nebraska where it can get as cold as -20 in the winter and routinely gets up to the 90's in the summer. Synthetics are the only way to go in your engine if you want to make it last. I also have a 2003 Tundra that I switched my oil to synthetic at 1K miles. I'm just getting ready to change the oil at 6k miles and it still looks clean on the dipstick.

[DevinSixtySeven]

...and your wife will eventually get used to your time spent on the forums LOL

-sean

[zebra1550]

Funny you should mention that...LOL

[RagerXS]

Absolutely make the switch. The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act ensures your warranty will not be voided by switching to synthetic oil.

As for intervals with Mobil1, anything less than 5K is wasteful and you should seriously consider going the full 7500. That is the maximum interval in your owner's manual and therefore the maximum Exxon/Mobil will stand behind.

FWIW, my 2002 Tundra is around 21K miles now -- the last 19K or so on the same oil...

Also, be sure to use a good oil filter. The Mobil1 filter is good but the Purolator Pure1 is equivalent in filtration efficiency at about half the cost... Only use the superior AMSOIL filters if you extend your drain intervals to make them cost effective, even though they cost less than the Mobil1 filters do.

Regards,
~ Fred

[Johnny Law]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into this, but what about low mileage between oil changes?

I change my oil at around 1500 miles (dino oil) or just about 6 months so that I do not get sludge buildup. I am lucky enough to live about a mile from work, and I do alot of stop and go city driving. My truck is a year and a half old already and I only have 7500 miles on it.

My question is, would it be worth it (cost) to switch to synthetic, would the synthetic build up any sludge if I waited the full mileage, or what time period between changes?

[v8Toilet]

If you look at it from a pure cost perspective it's arguably not worth the money. Most of an engines wear occurs upon startup during those few seconds when the oil pressure hasn't built up yet and the engine is running. Synthetic oil is superior to regular petroleum oil in that it flows incredibly well at low temperatures.

Toyota engines are also known for having sludge buildup problems. This wouldn't happen if every Toyota had true synthetic oil in the crankcase. It's more of a piece of mind thing than anything else.

If you aren’t going to keep the vehicle for a long time and don’t care than use the regular stuff. If you are than pay the extra coin and get the synthetic oil.

[RagerXS]

Originally posted by Johnny Law
Not to throw a monkey wrench into this, but what about low mileage between oil changes?

I change my oil at around 1500 miles (dino oil) or just about 6 months so that I do not get sludge buildup. I am lucky enough to live about a mile from work, and I do alot of stop and go city driving. My truck is a year and a half old already and I only have 7500 miles on it.

My question is, would it be worth it (cost) to switch to synthetic, would the synthetic build up any sludge if I waited the full mileage, or what time period between changes?

With just about any brand/type of oil you use I don't think you'll find a manufacturer that recommends using the oil beyond a year regardless of the mileage. Unless you were to use oil analysis, and in your case it just isn't cost-effective.

Your best bet is to continue to do what you are doing. Use a good brand like Mobil or Chevron, though as I find that Pennzoil and others that contain parrafins have a greater tendency to form sludge. Also, use a good oil filter -- the Purolator Pure1 is the most cost-effective buy out there.

~ Fred

[RagerXS]

Originally posted by v8Toilet
If you look at it from a pure cost perspective it's arguably not worth the money. Most of an engines wear occurs upon startup during those few seconds when the oil pressure hasn't built up yet and the engine is running. Synthetic oil is superior to regular petroleum oil in that it flows incredibly well at low temperatures.

In truth switching to synthetic oil SAVES YOU MONEY. As well as time, all while protecting your engine better. The only caveat is that you have to use a brand that stands behind their product rather than wanting to rip you off...

AMSOIL was the first to recommend extended drains and to this day remains the company with the longest recommended drain interval in the market (up to 35K miles). Neo offers some extended drain products (up to 25K), and Redline (up to 18K). If you ever wondered why Mobil1 is less expensive, consider that they like to advertise meeting European specs that require the oil to perform better and provide an extended service life. In fact Exxon/Mobil supports an extended drain interval in Europe. So why don't they do so here? The only two possibilities are that they would much rather consumers drain good oil so they can increase sales, or that they actually distribute a lesser quality oil here and falsely advertise meeting the European spec. I surely doubt it's the latter since they sued Castrol for false advertising. But nonetheless it doesn't make me want to purchase their products.

Back to the point, if you follow the extended drain interval recommendations you will save money. We bought Toyota trucks because we knew they would last -- draining good oil early is like trading in your truck early, and if you plan to do that you could have paid less for another brand...

~ Fred

[DevinSixtySeven]

synthetic oils leave a protective coating even when the majority drips back to the pan after you kill the engine, whereas dino oil doesnt (at least, thats part of the ad campaign). thats why most of the wear is normally when you start the engine like v8toilet said (with a dino oil, anyway). synth lets you extend your intervals even if you dont drive much, like a lot of high-perf sports cars that spend most of their time garaged, since the engine is still well-protected.

...however, if you were to listen to "popular opinion", using synthetic oils in an engine will cause that engine to sludge, sieze, melt, explode, leak, run backwards and upside down, make your stereo sound funny, and diminish your sex drive. so, of course, will leaving any kind of oil in your engine past 3000 miles regardless of the condition of the oil. old oil in your engine may, in fact, make your toenails fall out. i believe this very strongly, and change my toenails every 3000 miles.

bottom line is your engine will be better protected in heat and cold, wear less on startup, and less likely to sludge if you use a synthetic oil.

-sean

[acme]

The sludge problem was with a faulty PVC system design on older Toyotas. The crankcase wasn't venting correctly and the vapor didn't have a place to go except lining your heads and valve covers and inside your block , it just turned to a soild , sludge......

Alan

[Tundra2UZ]

Originally posted by RagerXS
In truth switching to synthetic oil SAVES YOU MONEY. As well as time, all while protecting your engine better. The only caveat is that you have to use a brand that stands behind their product rather than wanting to rip you off...

AMSOIL was the first to recommend extended drains and to this day remains the company with the longest recommended drain interval in the market (up to 35K miles). Neo offers some extended drain products (up to 25K), and Redline (up to 18K). If you ever wondered why Mobil1 is less expensive, consider that they like to advertise meeting European specs that require the oil to perform better and provide an extended service life. In fact Exxon/Mobil supports an extended drain interval in Europe. So why don't they do so here? The only two possibilities are that they would much rather consumers drain good oil so they can increase sales, or that they actually distribute a lesser quality oil here and falsely advertise meeting the European spec. I surely doubt it's the latter since they sued Castrol for false advertising. But nonetheless it doesn't make me want to purchase their products.

Back to the point, if you follow the extended drain interval recommendations you will save money. We bought Toyota trucks because we knew they would last -- draining good oil early is like trading in your truck early, and if you plan to do that you could have paid less for another brand...

~ Fred

Like you said, more than likely the reason that Mobil 1 recounted their claim of extended drains is because that means more revenue for ExxonMobil here in the US.

On a side note, I believe another reason that Mobil stopped advertising the extended drains was due to Consumer Reports publishing an article in 1996 on motor oils. I don't put nearly as much credibility into CR as I used to. The details of the article are a bit sketchy since I have not read it in several years. According to CR , if I remember correctly, they claimed that while some of their test taxi cab engines, which I beleive were rebuilt, had normal rates of wear using the extended drains with Mobil 1, a couple of their engines developed mechanical problems. I'm not sure if CR changed the oil filters during the recommended intervals on the engines or not, something you have to do on extended oil drains. I think Mobil stopped advertising their 12,000 or 25,000 mile extended drains shortly after the CR tests.

[ZenKnight]

Originally posted by Tundra2UZ
Like you said, more than likely the reason that Mobil 1 recounted their claim of extended drains is because that means more revenue for ExxonMobil here in the US.

If that's true, then what you and Rager are saying is Mobil only cares about making money in the American market. Why would making money in Europe not be as important?

[v8Toilet]

Originally posted by acme
The sludge problem was with a faulty PVC system design on older Toyotas. The crankcase wasn't venting correctly and the vapor didn't have a place to go except lining your heads and valve covers and inside your block , it just turned to a soild , sludge......

Alan

If the positive crankcase ventilation system wasn't working properly the crankcase pressure would build up and cause oil leaks.

There is no way I would risk running such an expensive engine like the I-force V8 for 25,000 miles on the same six quarts of oil. I'll stick with the 7500 mile interval that Toyota recommends regardless of what the oil manufacturers say. I may be ignorant in saying that but then I don't put the synthetic oil in to get extended oil intervals. I do it for the reasons I stated above.

[acme]

Originally posted by v8Toilet
If the positive crankcase ventilation system wasn't working properly the crankcase pressure would build up and cause oil leaks.

There is no way I would risk running such an expensive engine like the I-force V8 for 25,000 miles on the same six quarts of oil. I'll stick with the 7500 mile interval that Toyota recommends regardless of what the oil manufacturers say. I may be ignorant in saying that but then I don't put the synthetic oil in to get extended oil intervals. I do it for the reasons I stated above.

This doesn't have anything to do with pressure.....read this then click on the Toyota link below...


Quote from Yotarepair.....
" The actual cause of the problem is an inability of the engine's crankcase ventilation system (PCV) to move the normal gases from the engine. When these gases stay longer in an hot engine it allows deposits to form on the metal parts of the engine. When enough deposits are present "Sludge" is formed. In my opinion the reduced flow of the PCV is related to the vehicle emissions. This presents a problem since to correct it may require Toyota to recertify the engines, come up with a solution acceptable to the EPA and then they still have to repair or assist in repairing the affected engines. The costs would be staggering but ignoring the problem, in so many of their best selling vehicles, may be worse in the long run. In the various articles I've listed below, if you want, you will learn more about the cause an effect.



http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html


Click on above for more reading....

Alan