Blower Ping

[larryf]

Ok, couple points learned on the blower ping issue.

If you live in a place like I do, (California) and have bad gas here, it's not easy to get a blower to not ping.

TRD has a pulley for the blower, about 1mm larger than the stock one, that will reduce the blower speed, and drop the boost about 1 psi. Thats a solution I might have to go with.

I went back to the stock air filter, hoping to restrict the air flow, and prevent the lean condition, but all that did was put the blower to sleep. I can't belive the filter can make that much of a difference over the K&N. Anyway, it still pings with the stock filter.

Now, TRD also recommends using about a 60/40 coolant to water ratio. Normally, I run 100% Toyota coolant, I don't have to worry about freezing here, so. TRD says that water will help keep the combustion temp down, which is the main cause of the ping, not necessarily a lean condition.

Also, on the 2003, the injectors have been changed to have some 12+ nozzle holes. Mine have 4. I shouldn't have to explain how much better atomization the newer injectors offer, which is also part of the problem. (This exaplins why you guys with 4x4 with blowers are getting 12-15 city were you live, etc, and why I can only get 9).

So, first things first. I'm moving to the Denso plugs, I'll change my coolant mixture, see how that does, then I think I'll try and round up some '03 injectors and see about replacing them. First I have to make sure the plug and wiring is the same. (Other than that, the injector WILL fit).

TRD mentions one way to test for lean, is to pull the vacuum line off the fuel regulator. That will offer maximin fuel delivery to the injectors.

Larry

[scdtrd]

Really?
Ok.... try this... look at my photos... you will notice on one of them I called BOOST PORT PLUMBING.. I pot a "T" fitting off the boost port. One side connects to the boost gauge, the OTHER side is connected to the FMU. If you run boost to the FMU, you start to PINCH the return fuel line in responce to the boost. So...
you can gain up to 5lbs more pressure in the fuel line.
The stock air filter was that restrictive... I will have to see what it can do with out... do see what I am missing.

Hmmmm.....
SCDTRD.

[larryf]

Originally posted by scdtrd
Really?
Ok.... try this... look at my photos... you will notice on one of them I called BOOST PORT PLUMBING.. I pot a "T" fitting off the boost port. One side connects to the boost gauge, the OTHER side is connected to the FMU. If you run boost to the FMU, you start to PINCH the return fuel line in responce to the boost. So...
you can gain up to 5lbs more pressure in the fuel line.
The stock air filter was that restrictive... I will have to see what it can do with out... do see what I am missing.

Hmmmm.....
SCDTRD.

I failed to belive that the stock filter can be that bad, but lemme tell you.. It's almost as bad as not having the blower at all. That sounds crazy, but it's what I felt. According to my ***-dyno, it's bad.


Think about this.. A blower is not designed to SUCK, it's designed to compress, to blow. If you can't get the air into the blower, you can't compress it.

I'll get the PN from TRD. He mentioned using some flex tubing and running an intake up to the grille, keeping the stock air filter box. Reason, is, I guess we pickup a lot of heat under the fender well, (Brake heat, header heat, etc). We all know that hot air does not compress as well as cold air.

Larry

[larryf]

Originally posted by scdtrd
Really?
Ok.... try this... look at my photos... you will notice on one of them I called BOOST PORT PLUMBING.. I pot a "T" fitting off the boost port. One side connects to the boost gauge, the OTHER side is connected to the FMU. If you run boost to the FMU, you start to PINCH the return fuel line in responce to the boost. So...
you can gain up to 5lbs more pressure in the fuel line.
The stock air filter was that restrictive... I will have to see what it can do with out... do see what I am missing.

Hmmmm.....
SCDTRD.

You're also running the dual exhaust, I'm not. I'm still stock back to the flow master.

I'm starting to wonder if the blower will make up the bottom end you lose with headers.

First hand accounts show that the TRD header and exhaust system kill the bottom end of the Tundra, over the stock (short equal length pipes). With a forced induction motor, it might be best to get the headers. If anyone can offer any support to this claim, I think I'll go with the JBA coated headers and Y pipe.

Larry

[v8Toilet]

Originally posted by larryf
You're also running the dual exhaust, I'm not. I'm still stock back to the flow master.

I'm starting to wonder if the blower will make up the bottom end you lose with headers.

First hand accounts show that the TRD header and exhaust system kill the bottom end of the Tundra, over the stock (short equal length pipes). With a forced induction motor, it might be best to get the headers. If anyone can offer any support to this claim, I think I'll go with the JBA coated headers and Y pipe.

Larry

TRD and JBA headers increase your low-end torque over the stock manifolds. It's the TRD dual exhaust that hurts your low-end torque on a NA engine anyway. I did some track testing with a TRD air filter compared to the stock filter and I always ran faster with a higher MPH with the stock filter. I read somewhere that the stock filter has 47% more surface area than the TRD air filter. The TRD air filter is similar in design to the K&N filter.

[larryf]

Originally posted by v8Toilet
TRD and JBA headers increase your low-end torque over the stock manifolds. It's the TRD dual exhaust that hurts your low-end torque on a NA engine anyway. I did some track testing with a TRD air filter compared to the stock filter and I always ran faster with a higher MPH with the stock filter. I read somewhere that the stock filter has 47% more surface area than the TRD air filter. The TRD air filter is similar in design to the K&N filter.

15.52 stock? I ran stock and only ran 16.48. I'm at sea level, on one of the best tracks in the country. How did you manage an entire second lower than me stock? (I did have a camper shell on, but a second?) I'm an SR5 Extended cab, auto, 2wd...

Larry

[scdtrd]

On a N/A engine, you have to have SOME back pressure in the exhaust in order to properly scavenge the cylinder on the exhaust stroke. It also acts as a "barrior" between the fresh intake charge and the exhaust to keep as much of the charge in the cylinder as possiable. Lastly, an engine is basically an air pump, that can be tuned, so at a certian RPM you will hit "resonance" and peak power. With the blower, the back pressure is not needed.. or it's usefullness is reduced. A blown engine really should have very little overlap and long duration on the intake side. Also, it should be around 7.5 to 8.0 C/R. Long stoke as well. So, when I first put the dual exhaust on, YES.. I did feel it lag on the bottom end and was stronger on the top. Since I installed the S/C the bottom end is AWESOME.. and the top end is a screamer. It is the MID RANGE.. the MEAT of the powerband that SUX.. (for now). I am adding a custom "Y" that my local muffler shop is making and will add the headers soon after for max power on the exhaust side. I will also add the cold air intake mod. I have been searching for a replacement to the TRD piggyback crap and called The Racers Group. Rosa, the office manager told me that they (The Racers Group) was no longer the Unichip distributor. She gave me the number for Jack Friedman, he is the new Unichip distributer. We spoke for quite a while and he is working on (as we speak) a PRE MADE WIRE HARNESS for the Tundra!!!! Yea.. thats right. We spoke for about 30 minutes or so. And the $$$ is right. You will have to call him for current $$$, he asked me not to put a $$$ here, so I won't. He told me that he has a prototype made, and needs to test and refine. He said around Mid November, if all goes well, it should be ready. That was the one thing holding the Unichip back vs. the SMT6 which HAS a wire harness. This thing is awesome. Speaking with him I determined the problem with the S/C is not the S/C it is the TRD Piggyback ECU crap. The TRD Piggyback ECU tries to reduce ping several ways. It SEVERLY retards timing, and runs the A/F to around 10.0. MAX power is achieved at 13.0 to 13. 5 and emissions best is 14.7 to 15.0. He dyno'd a bone stock Tundra V8 4.7L with the S/C out of the box and got 286rwhp. Then, a properly tuned and programmed Unichip was installed which can controll the 9th injector, timing, ignition map, fuel map, and WOT settings. Dynoe'd again and got 368rwhp.
He can sell the Unichip blank and you have it programmed or he is also selling them "pre programmed" but if you do not think it is right, or could be tweeked, it takes about 3hr on a dyno, and his programmer can assist the tech and dial in the correct settings. I believe it can also control shift points and firmness, but I am unsure of that. It also can remove the speed limiter among other things... I HIGHLY suggest the TRD LSD for the rear end (to hold up under the added power). I am also having Level10 rework my valvebody for stronger shifts and less slop between shifts. I am going to do this, and will post pics and vids as I can! I want everyone to see this, hell... I am working on a web site similar to Gadget Online for the Tundra!
Just wanted to let someone know... there is an answer out there.
I hope this helps and lets you know that reducing boost and poor gas mileage is not the norm.

[v8Toilet]

Originally posted by larryf
15.52 stock? I ran stock and only ran 16.48. I'm at sea level, on one of the best tracks in the country. How did you manage an entire second lower than me stock? (I did have a camper shell on, but a second?) I'm an SR5 Extended cab, auto, 2wd...

Larry

Weigh your truck with the camper and you in it. Mine weighs 4425 lbs. with myself in it. That camper shell also adds a lot of wind drag. See here! What was your mph also? It was also 40-degrees outside that day!

[v8Toilet]

Originally posted by scdtrd
On a N/A engine, you have to have SOME back pressure in the exhaust in order to properly scavenge the cylinder on the exhaust stroke. It also acts as a "barrior" between the fresh intake charge and the exhaust to keep as much of the charge in the cylinder as possiable. Lastly, an engine is basically an air pump, that can be tuned, so at a certian RPM you will hit "resonance" and peak power. With the blower, the back pressure is not needed.. or it's usefullness is reduced. A blown engine really should have very little overlap and long duration on the intake side. Also, it should be around 7.5 to 8.0 C/R. Long stoke as well. So, when I first put the dual exhaust on, YES.. I did feel it lag on the bottom end and was stronger on the top. Since I installed the S/C the bottom end is AWESOME.. and the top end is a screamer. It is the MID RANGE.. the MEAT of the powerband that SUX.. (for now). I am adding a custom "Y" that my local muffler shop is making and will add the headers soon after for max power on the exhaust side. I will also add the cold air intake mod. I have been searching for a replacement to the TRD piggyback crap and called The Racers Group. Rosa, the office manager told me that they (The Racers Group) was no longer the Unichip distributor. She gave me the number for Jack Friedman, he is the new Unichip distributer. We spoke for quite a while and he is working on (as we speak) a PRE MADE WIRE HARNESS for the Tundra!!!! Yea.. thats right. We spoke for about 30 minutes or so. And the $$$ is right. You will have to call him for current $$$, he asked me not to put a $$$ here, so I won't. He told me that he has a prototype made, and needs to test and refine. He said around Mid November, if all goes well, it should be ready. That was the one thing holding the Unichip back vs. the SMT6 which HAS a wire harness. This thing is awesome. Speaking with him I determined the problem with the S/C is not the S/C it is the TRD Piggyback ECU crap. The TRD Piggyback ECU tries to reduce ping several ways. It SEVERLY retards timing, and runs the A/F to around 10.0. MAX power is achieved at 13.0 to 13. 5 and emissions best is 14.7 to 15.0. He dyno'd a bone stock Tundra V8 4.7L with the S/C out of the box and got 286rwhp. Then, a properly tuned and programmed Unichip was installed which can controll the 9th injector, timing, ignition map, fuel map, and WOT settings. Dynoe'd again and got 368rwhp.
He can sell the Unichip blank and you have it programmed or he is also selling them "pre programmed" but if you do not think it is right, or could be tweeked, it takes about 3hr on a dyno, and his programmer can assist the tech and dial in the correct settings. I believe it can also control shift points and firmness, but I am unsure of that. It also can remove the speed limiter among other things... I HIGHLY suggest the TRD LSD for the rear end (to hold up under the added power). I am also having Level10 rework my valvebody for stronger shifts and less slop between shifts. I am going to do this, and will post pics and vids as I can! I want everyone to see this, hell... I am working on a web site similar to Gadget Online for the Tundra!
Just wanted to let someone know... there is an answer out there.
I hope this helps and lets you know that reducing boost and poor gas mileage is not the norm.

Scdtrd that is great news!

[larryf]

Originally posted by v8Toilet
Weigh your truck with the camper and you in it. Mine weighs 4425 lbs. with myself in it. That camper shell also adds a lot of wind drag. See here! What was your mph also? It was also 40-degrees outside that day!

I'm sitting at 4900 with me in it.

Larry

[larryf]

Originally posted by scdtrd
I believe it can also control shift points and firmness, but I am unsure of that. It also can remove the speed limiter among other things... I HIGHLY suggest the TRD LSD for the rear end (to hold up under the added power). I am also having Level10 rework my valvebody for stronger shifts and less slop between shifts. I am going to do this, and will post pics and vids as I can! I want everyone to see this, hell... I am working on a web site similar to Gadget Online for the Tundra!

Be careful. TRD has the motor go into fuel cutoff before the shift point, because they where blowing up tranny's while developing the blower. They say we can remove the ECU, and it'll bark the tires at every shift, but don't expect your tranny to last.

Larry

[scdtrd]

Originally posted by larryf
Be careful. TRD has the motor go into fuel cutoff before the shift point, because they where blowing up tranny's while developing the blower. They say we can remove the ECU, and it'll bark the tires at every shift, but don't expect your tranny to last.

Larry

Yes.. I agree. In speaking with TRD, they told me that the 1st offering of the S/C was.... a bit more than they expected. It was leaning out too much and snaping the tranny and rear end. It was basically like the V6 version, except on a V8 which was developing too much power for the stock componets. As a matter of fact, the rear end and tranny are identical to the Tacoma. The rear axel housing was widened and the tranny pushed to full electronic control. It is the same tranny and diff. So, from the beginning it was weak. Then, add the S/C that was sold briefly with 8PSI boost.. and you have a problem. Thus, the 6PSI and the ECU to control the shifts and ping. Thus you have a watered down version of what it can do. A lot of people purchased a Tundra first and put the S/C on and are blissfully happy. They have no referance to pull from. I purchased a 1999 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner V6. I put the S/C on, reworked tranny, larger injectors, larger MAF, BOOST-A-PUMP, ProComp lateral traction bars and a few more mods. That damn thing was like a wet cat in a bag trying to get out... you just TOUCH the pedal.. and hold on. I even made my own 9PSI pulleys for it. HOT DAMN... it was bad to the bone. Well, my wife had a bad accident in it on the highway and totaled it. (she is ok). Well, I was tired of the "kid" and wanted to move to the mac daddy.. the 4.7L V8. I had a dual exhaust on the V6, and it was nice, but it is like a Harly Davidson, you CAN NOT duplicate, it just has that sound... music to my ears. So, I figured I would "redo" what I did to the Tacoma. I am, and added the S/C and was INSTANTELY aware that something was wrong. The V6 would build SMOOTH power from the ground up and the faster you went the more it would pull. In it's present form, the V8 Builds until it shifts.... squats, coughs, looks around.. THEN starts to build ALL OVER AGAIN. It is stumbly and clumbsy and SUX on MPG. That is not what I paid for. It is my choice, and I am offering this info for everyone. I know the tranny and the rear end are weak too. I got the TRD LSD and installed because it WILL stand up to the power. I am reworking the tranny. The plates will hold, but the stock slip between shifts is where the problem is. The slip (shift) is engineered for a stock 4.7L. If you rework the valve body, and put in stiffer springs, then you remove the slip and add more clamping pressure to the shift, you will be ok. The tranny is a great tranny, it just needs to shift quicker and remove the slip will WILL burn up the plates, especially between 1st and 2nd clutch packs. (which I DID on my Tacoma and had to replace). All things are lessons learned. It is my daily driver and my project and I am having a blast! I just wanted to share my results and problems so if someone wants to do some of these ideas, they have a starting point. I hope this helps.
SCDTRD

[TRDKEAU]

the iridiums should take care of the pinging, or trythe NGK's both are TRD recommended.