Powertrax No-Slip install tips?

[batman]

Just wondering if anyone has any pearls of wisdom about installing the No-Slip. I have read everything I can find on TS but figured I would still ask. I have the unit here and the instructions are quite generic. Also I have noticed some discrepancies between the install manual and TS member accounts.

The manual does not say you need to remove the ring gear, but everyone here says you do. Heck the manual doesn’t even have you taking the 3rd member off, you just remove the diff cover – not really going to work with a Tundra which doesn’t have a cover!!!!

Also what about the thrust washers? Dyogium says you should reuse them, but he was installing a Lock-Right and not a No-Slip. Should you reuse them for the No-Slip?

My father is going to help. Should I ask him to bring his compressor and air tools or can it be done with a ½ socket set and BFI (Brute Force and Ignorance!)?

Any other hints that would make this an easier task???

Any other parts that I need that are not directly related to the No-Slip that I might forget to get? Any new seals or anything?

I really appreciate any advice.

TIM

[dyogim]

Here's a link on the Powertrax Lock Right locker, the install was done on my truck and I'm assuming the install for the no-slip should be very similar to the Lock Right install.

http://www.toy4x4.net/rear_locker/index.htm

Mike

[batman]

Originally Posted by dyogim

Here's a link on the Powertrax Lock Right locker, the install was done on my truck and I'm assuming the install for the no-slip should be very similar to the Lock Right install.

http://www.toy4x4.net/rear_locker/index.htm

Mike

Mike,
Seen that page before, huge help!! But you mention that I should reuse the thrust washers. Did the instructions tell you to? The no-slip instructions make no mention of that.

Also I'm assuming from what you and others have said, that the ring gear must come off to even get to the spider gears - correct?

Thanks a ton,

TIM

[dyogim]

Everything was reused(shims and thrust washers). The ring gear did have to be removed in order to take the spider gears out and the new unit installed.

[so40]

batman...

I had this unit installed in my 2001 Tundra about 4 months ago. With the "no slip" version you DO NOT use the thrust washers and spider gears...they come out and do not go back in. Now, on the "Lock Rite" you do reuse the washers. I took my third member out myself (took about 1 hour) and carried it to a local shop and they installed the no slip unit. It took them exactly one hour to install it. I wanted to do it myself but I did not have a vise and air wrench at the time.

I read everything I could about this install and this is a good review that helped me... http://www.sporttruck.com/howto/76898/

Just make sure you "mark" everything and you will be alright. The ring gear does have to come off the carrier because the pinion shaft will not clear the ring gear. The hardest part seems to be (on some) getting the roll pin out of the pinion shaft.

Also, if you do it yourself you can lay the ring gear out in the sun and put the carrier in the refrigerator before you bolt them back together. Some people say it makes it easier to get back together, but you can do it without doing this.

I really like this unit. I got mine for $200.00 (new) off ebay and paid $120.00 for the install. I would rather have an ARB but could not afford 8 to 9 hundred dollars PLUS the complete "setup" of the gears and bearings.

I still get an occasional "pop" but not much and you get use to the extra "back lash" built into the unit. It DOES work.

Hope this helps.

[batman]

so40...

Thanks so much, that does help – a lot. I appreciate your comments. I hope to take pictures along the way like Dyogium did and post a page of them. I agree with you about the ARB. Much rather have that, but this is a much more economical path. Heck, even doing a LSD would cost about as much as an ARB in the end. The No-Slip does seem like an excellent compromise. Wish me luck. We start next Wed.

TIM

[BirdDog0]

Originally Posted by batman

so40...

Thanks so much, that does help – a lot. I appreciate your comments. I hope to take pictures along the way like Dyogium did and post a page of them. I agree with you about the ARB. Much rather have that, but this is a much more economical path. Heck, even doing a LSD would cost about as much as an ARB in the end. The No-Slip does seem like an excellent compromise. Wish me luck. We start next Wed.

TIM

GOOD LUCK!! It's a fun install and well worth the 3 or so hours...

[batman]

The Powertrax No-Slip: installation tips for the Tundra

Just installed the No-Slip unit from Powertrax this week. Thought I would share a few things so that anyone interested would better understand what they are in for. I’ll post a review later on when I have some miles and off-road experience with it.

Here is an equipment list so that you can make sure you have what you need.
In the order you’ll need them….

Jack and lug wrench (tire removal)
Axle stands (be safe!! Make sure the truck is good and secure!!)
Pliers for the E-brake cotter pin
10mm wrench (brake line)
Pans for draining oil
Rags – lots and lots of rags!!!
Grease pencil or other labeling/marking method
Metric socket set. The 3 sized sockets you will use are 14mm, 17mm (later), 24mm.
6 pt sockets are best and a variety of extensions and ratchets are helpful. A long handled ratchet is nice to break some of the bolts loose.
Small piece of rope to tie off the drive shaft.
Some muscles or better yet two people!
Vise (4+in is best)
Drill and 1/4 inch bit
Allen wrench (5mm I think) and hammer
Wheel bearing grease
Powertrax No-Slip unit
Rubber mallet (helpful)
Torque wrench
Lock tight compound
RTV gasket compound
4 quarts of gear oil
Some fresh brake fluid
5-8 hours depending on how fast you work.

As you can see there is not much need in the way of materials/tools. Make sure you find out what the correct torque requirements are for the various nuts and bolts before you start. The bolts in the 3rd members (like ring gear bolts) are not listed in my manual so I had to guess. Save your self the aggravation look them up before you start.

Air tools would make the process faster, but are not a requirement.

The process if actually fairly easy. Follow the pictorial guide at http://www.toy4x4.net/rear_locker/index.htm This was VERY helpful for me . Everything was very similar except the part about reusing the thrust washers. With the No-Slip unit you DO NOT reuse them. Also when removing the cross shaft (pinion shaft) pin, after drilling the case, an Allen wrench works great to push the pin out.

Take careful notes on which way things go back together and make where things line up (like the bearing cap, ring gear and drive shaft). As Mike says be very careful to keep the shims separate and labeled. Best that everything goes back exactly how it came off so you don’t throw anything off balance.

OK, now when installing the actual no-slip parts they only go in one way. Take some time to look at and play with the way the driver – active spacer – coupler all go together (see the powertrax manual for all terminology). How the driver and spacer go together is fairly obvious, but the is also a spot on the coupler where the paddle of the spacer goes into (the “paddle opening in synchro”). They all need to be lined up when sliding the driver (with the spacer) into the case. IMPORTANT: Now when installing the pinion shaft it will take some effort to get it to go through the differential case. We used a hammer with a LIGHT tapping motion. There should be little to NO resistance from the internal powertrax parts. If the pinion shaft does not go in easily or stops when it contacts the drivers stop immediately! Take it all apart, something is NOT lined up correctly.

I also will repeat Mike’s comment about putting the ring gear in the sun to warm it up. Mine went on fairly easily with tapping from a rubber mallet. Once on a little we used 4 of the ring gear bolts to snug up the ring gear.

The reinstall process is fast but that 3rd member weighs a ton – especially when you are lying on your side under the truck!!

Time Line:

This job took two people about 6-7 hours (at a leisurely pace).
0.5 hrs to rack up the truck and get it safe to work on.
1.5 hrs to get the brakes off, axles out, and 3rd member off.
1.5 hrs to disassemble the 3rd member
0.5 hrs to put the powertrax parts in
0.5 hrs to put the powertrax parts in the second time
0.5 hrs to reassemble the 3rd member
1.0 hrs to reassemble the truck.
1.0 hrs worth of breaks and Internet checks at TS.

I’ll post driving impressions later after I get some miles on it!
Hope this helps, contact me if you have specific questions.

TIM

[Herbicidal]

Nice write up Batman! I have the same model as you. I just did not catch your post until now. I have had mine for almost a year. I have not done as much off-roading as I would like, but it sure does help! It gives you awesome grip on rain-slicked streets, but you will want to practice in the snow and get used to how it works.

Last year I was in some combo snow\slush\ice and if the front end was building up too much snow, even in 4wd, the rear end wanted to push the truck sideways! A rather interesting sensation ! So if you drive in the snow, find some safe area to practice in. I ended up shoveling in a load of snow to get some more weight in the back, that helped a whole bunch. By the way, your truck will now do some awesome donuts! Have fun and be safe.

Herbicidal

[batman]

I have now put about 500+ miles on the unit and have even taken it off-road a little.

You can read my previous post on the install process. Here I will discuss how it has change the behavior of my vehicle and the resultant changes in my driving habits.

Changes to my trucks behavior:
1) Increased backlash (or slack) in the drive train. Backlash can best be described as the amount of free movement the drive train normally has. For instance when you put your truck into park on a hill and let off the brake the truck roles an inch or two before the slack is taken up. Well for the No-Slip unit to work correctly there is a little more “slack” built in. Powertrax warns you in the manual that this is normal. So NOW when I put the truck in park on a hill it roles 4 inches or so before it stops!!

2) Under moderate+ gas the tire will chirp going around a tight corner (like pulling out of the gas station).

3) When costing around a tight corner (like pulling in to the gas station) there is sometimes a clunk as the unit disengages. Occasionally you can feel that clunk! As the unit breaks-in I am feeling it less often. This cluck can only be heard with the windows down and radio off. It sounds like some one just hit your axle with a ball-peen hammer.

4) The truck has a tendency to drive in a strait line more. With power to both wheels there is a resistance to allow the truck to turn. This is VERY subtle, I would not consider this a negative or a safety hazard in anyway! If you turn your wheel the will truck turn. However I find the truck does not wander as much going down the highway (more on this below).

5) When your off road, your tires don’t slip nearly as much!! This is what its all about!! On the down side when your rear tires do break loose, the rear end wanders a little more. But if expected it can be corrected and its a whole lot of fun!!

Driving impressions:
During normal relaxed driving the No-Slip unit is not noticeable for the most part. However there are a few situations when it is very noticeable. Mainly when driving in town at speeds of 20-30 mph. At this speed the increased backlash is very noticeable. As you let off the gas and then re-apply you can feel a clunk as the drive train spins through the backlash (slack) and catches up to the wheels. It’s hard to explain, suffice to say the truck is a little clunky at slow speeds. On the highway you can’t notice it.

Also I now feel like a teenager again. When I was younger I would burn tire all the time. Tearing around ever corner I could!! Now with the No-Slip if I give the truck anything more than very light gas my tires chirp. Its not a burn out, it’s a light chirping sound. Basically with moderate or more acceleration the No-Slip locks the rear wheels together. Result – the rear wheels spin at the same speed so the inside tire spins faster than the ground resulting in a chirping effect. The funny part is I’m burning rubber while moving relatively slowly. Its not a big deal, its kinda like driving in those parking garages where your tires squeal as you do simple turns, but not nearly that bad. I would suggest that you keep your No-Slip manual in the truck so if an Officer ever did stop you for “Exhibition of Acceleration” (AKA burning out) you can show him the manual which will document it as a normal and then remind him how slow you were really going and I’m sure there will be no problem. On the downside, those killer burnout you did around corners are no-more! This No-Slip gives you such great traction that even around corners if you gun it, you’ll only get loud chirping at best!

As for going around corners while coasting, the No-Slip unit disengages and allows the wheels to spin at different speeds. There is sometimes a clunk as the unit disengages, but it is usually quiet and you don’t feel it do anything. It is getting quieter each day as it breaks in.

As for the tendency to push the truck strait. To be honest I love it! I found that the truck used to wander a little while driving down the road. If I took my hands off the wheel the truck might drift right or left. Not anymore, it tracks straight as an arrow! Some folks have expressed concerns about going on or off a highway exit/entrance ramp at high speed and having the truck push you straight off into the woods. I have tested this by intentionally jumping on the gas around those turning exit/entrance ramps and have not had a single problem. I think that at that speed and with those relatively gradual corners, the tires can slip the little bit that is needed without a problem. So for me, so far, I do not consider this a problem.

Off road – this is what its all about right? let me tell you a short story that explains why I got the No-Slip! A month or so ago, me and two other trucks were going down this old abandoned mining road. There was a dry stream bed that we had to cross. It looks like a very easy crossing – dry gravel bottom. To cross this stream you have to break left and then right so you can cross it at an angle. Well as I came across my front-left tire came into contact with the far bank first. As I started to climb the 1.5ft sloped bank, the weight of the vehicle was transferred to the front-left and rear-right tires. This leaves the opposite two (rear-left and front-right) with little weight which equals little traction! And so it started - the rear-left and front-right tires started to spin and spin (in 4wd). Did a great job of tossing some gravel, but did nothing for making my truck go forward! I backed up and tried many, many times and no matter what, I could not drive up that stupid *%$*&@@% slope!! There was not enough room to reposition, so when all else fails you resort to speed. I backed up and gave it a good run up and bounced right over the bank – not the preferred method of off-roading. NOW the real kicker is that the two truck behind me just crawled right through the stream bed like it wasn’t even there, one of them never even put it in 4wd!!!!!! Boy was I pissed and embarrassed (I’m Mr. tuck/gadget of the group). Turns out both of the other two trucks had factory limited-slips and that’s all it took!

Now a month later with the No-Slip: I went to that same exact road the other day, the same two people were even riding with me. As we drove down the road we were deep in conversation. I decided not to say anything and see what happened. I eased left then right and drove right up that bank like it wasn’t even there. The guy talking in the passenger seat didn’t even notice we when right through it. Hell I didn’t even put the truck into 4 wheel-drive!!!!!!! At that moment this No-Slip paid for its self hands down!!!!!!!!

Changes to my driving habits:
Really the biggest change to my driving habits is that I do not accelerate as hard when making a turn from a stop. Like leaving gas stations or stop signs. This is simply because I don’t like people thinking that I am driving recklessly. Otherwise I haven’t had to change my driving that much.

Would I recommend the No-Slip:
You maybe surprised to hear that I do not recommend the No-Slip for everyone! I feel that the No-Slip has its benefits and its drawbacks.

For the everyday driver who drives maybe 5 miles a month on dirt roads or the guy that does some light off-roading once or twice a year. I would say NO. The increase in amount of backlash and the tire chirping at slower speeds detract from the smooth and worry free operation of the Tundra. The No-Slip unit makes the Tundra more like a work truck – a really nice work truck! The No-slip is not as smooth as the company would like you to think. I think that is to be expected considering what it is doing!!

For the serious off-roader who makes his/her truck go places and do things that boggle the mind of the general public – I would say yea maybe. First if your one of THOSE people, you really don’t need my opinion, you know way more about this than me!! Powertrax says that this unit is strong enough to handle the toughest of applications and it would be nice to be able to drive you beefy rig to and from the trail without trailering it. But I’m not convinces this unit would be strong enough for the real tough guys.

So why do I need it? Well I fall right in the middle. I’m a biologist that works with animals on a daily basis. Animals (wild ones anyway) tend to stray away from paved roads. So I find myself driving me and my equipment down dirt roads weekly if not daily. Monthly if not weekly, I find myself doing some sort of light off-roading. For me this No-Slip was the perfect answer for that little extra something I needed. A limited-slip differential probably would have been enough for most of my occasions and would have had even better street manners. However, since a limited-slip would have been a little on the light-duty side and it would have been 3X the cost I am very happy with the No-Slip!

If anyone has specific questions about the No-Slip, please feel free to contact me at any time.

Hope you found this helpful

Later
TIM