limited slip

[H2O_MAN]

Originally Posted by mgerry

all sounds good. Since this is only a $300 option, why doesnt Toyota include in the "off-road" package, and up that cost ?

As I said, I dont have it. I asked a dealer for a cost to install and havent heard. Anyone have idea of the cost to have delaer install afterwards ?

I know the TRD diff is only around $300 itself

I seem to remember $400+ since you have to get new bearings/ seals and gaskets. It was worth it to me because it is all warrantied.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by x49546

I just purchased my LSD for my Tundra V6 2WD, I lived in California, don't really have to worry too much for icy roads, expect, maybe out in the high mountains in the winter. I paid a good price for my LSD, how about in the wet/dry/little dirt/rocks situation?

Wet surfaces normally aren't a problem but on very heavily traveled roadways that seldom see rain, a buildup of road grim/rubber compound etc occurs and the road will be a little slippery for the first 1/2 hour or so of rainfall, so you could compare that type of surface to snow/ice surfaces in that you may experience a slight "dart" while applying power but the chances of experiencing a "dart" is much less in wet conditions than it is in the snow/ice, especially if you have decent tires. As for dry/dirt/rock surfaces, your vehicle will have better traction than an open differential and you'll probably only experience your rear-end sliding one way or the other if you're really trying to make it skid out in loose gravel/sand. If you tow a boat and occasionally unload on a fairly steep ramp and have to back into the water slightly, you'll normally come right out without spinning a tire, where the open differential sometimes experience a few problems in that situation. On an opening fishing weekend in Minnesota, several people around the State in open differential 2 wheel drive pickups/sedans spin out on ramps and cause more than a little commotion. The LSD is an excellent option on any 2 or 4 wheel vehicle wanting better traction.

[UsE_To_RoCk]

Originally Posted by Joe

Wet surfaces normally aren't a problem but on very heavily traveled roadways that seldom see rain, a buildup of road grim/rubber compound etc occurs and the road will be a little slippery for the first 1/2 hour or so of rainfall, so you could compare that type of surface to snow/ice surfaces in that you may experience a slight "dart" while applying power but the chances of experiencing a "dart" is much less in wet conditions than it is in the snow/ice, especially if you have decent tires. As for dry/dirt/rock surfaces, your vehicle will have better traction than an open differential and you'll probably only experience your rear-end sliding one way or the other if you're really trying to make it skid out in loose gravel/sand. If you tow a boat and occasionally unload on a fairly steep ramp and have to back into the water slightly, you'll normally come right out without spinning a tire, where the open differential sometimes experience a few problems in that situation. On an opening fishing weekend in Minnesota, several people around the State in open differential 2 wheel drive pickups/sedans spin out on ramps and cause more than a little commotion. The LSD is an excellent option on any 2 or 4 wheel vehicle wanting better traction.

I'm going to chime in,
I have the 2wd V8 limited and I really need a LSD. For one reason I feel this way is because, as noted above, when driving in the rain. Now with my open diff., under acceleration the right wheel will ALWAYS sipn pulling the truck right...which of course looks really stupid when only one wheel is spinning. Also in mud! Mud sucks when you are 1 wheel drive. Two wheel drive is at least a little bit easier to get around.
I don't know if this is true for everybody but when I lose traction in the rear, It's ALWAYS the right side, never the left, so it would be my guess that open-diffs always sent power to the right wheel.
One thing I thought of was what if you were driving in a icy parking lot (with an empty bed) and you accidentally drove into an I cy pot hole (while going 10 mph) on your right side. Would that get you stuck assuming the pot hole is deep and slippery enough? I mean your left wheel isn't going to help so your right wheel would just be spinning...though after a while the heat from your tire would melt the ice a little but still. It would be kind of sad if that actually happened.

[molex]

Well, I haven't driven in the snow yet (8 month old baby means no time-off this year), but I did realize something about LSD after having read this thread: When I leave work every day, the last thing I do is swing through the self-serve carwash that I help run. When leaving, my tires are always wet and when I pull onto the road I love gassing it hard and making the rear end slide . Very safe, the road is a dead end non-residential, so traffic is virtually non-existant.

On my previous truck (Nissan Frontier, no LSD), I could really break her loose and get some spectacular drifts.... but since getting the Tundra I just can't get it to break loose like the Nissan. I had previously put this down to....to.... well, to it being a different truck I guess. But I now realize (I think) what's happening: Exiting the carwash is a left turn, so the outside (passenger side) rear wheel breaks loose first (higher RPM's). I feel it break loose, and get all excited. Then the LSD kicks in and stops sending extra tourqe to the spinning wheel and instead sends some to the inside, slower spinning wheel, which causes the outside wheel to stop spinning and the inside wheel to keep its grip, and ends my dramatic slide before it even starts.... I think. Is that right?

Anyhow, details aside, the LSD works, I prove it to myself nearly every day.

[dnels]

Originally Posted by molex

.... But I now realize (I think) what's happening: Exiting the carwash is a left turn, so the outside (passenger side) rear wheel breaks loose first (higher RPM's). I feel it break loose, and get all excited. Then the LSD kicks in and stops sending extra tourqe to the spinning wheel and instead sends some to the inside, slower spinning wheel, which causes the outside wheel to stop spinning and the inside wheel to keep its grip, and ends my dramatic slide before it even starts.... I think. Is that right?

Anyhow, details aside, the LSD works, I prove it to myself nearly every day.

Molex,
I have of several occasions almost lost control while accelerating on a wet curve with my new 2004 stepside. Very scary!!! I have not seen any road condition where the LSD has done anything but hurt traction.

I dread the thought of what the winter here in Syracuse,N.Y. will be like...

I'll keep everyone posted on how the LSD reacts to snow.

Dave

[KLS]

Dave,
Traction comes from your tires. If your tires are slipping on wet roads consider getting them siped at a tire shop. If you're on ice or snow, buy real winter tires.

The LSD puts power to the wheel that has the most traction. If both wheels have equal traction, both get power. If both are on very slippery surfaces both spin and you go sideways. With an open differential one spins and you go nowhere. That is driving with an LSD. I prefer it, but I'm used to it.

The TRD/Eaton LSD unit might be a closeout. Some mail-order dealers were selling them for $229. I got one. I bought carrier bearings and a gasket kit from the dealership. If I did it again I'd get the bearings and gaskets from Randy's Ring & Pinion Better stock and better prices. If I wasn't able to correctly assemble the unit myself, I'd get a fully assembled third member from Randy's. All that would be required would be to take loose the rear hub backing plates, pull the axles part way out, change the differential 3rd member, reinsert the axles, bolt everything up & fill it with oil, and go.


Ken

[dnels]

Originally Posted by KLS

Dave,
Traction comes from your tires. If your tires are slipping on wet roads consider getting them siped at a tire shop. If you're on ice or snow, buy real winter tires.

The LSD puts power to the wheel that has the most traction. If both wheels have equal traction, both get power. If both are on very slippery surfaces both spin and you go sideways. With an open differential one spins and you go nowhere. That is driving with an LSD. I prefer it, but I'm used to it.

...
Ken

Ken,
I agree about the tires. I fear that the stock BFG's are neither good for dry,wet or snowy roads. It's tough to shell out $600 for another set of tires after paying big $$$ for the truck!

Getting use to it will be tough also; time will tell...

dave

[JohnnyTheA]

I have the 4x4 TRD with LSD option. A couple weeks ago we got alot of rain in SoCal, so I experimented a little. I went into 4x4 mode (4Hi) and stomped on the gas. No skidding. It doesn't burn on dry pavement but I would think it would at least skid on wet. Nope. Probably because the force was distributed to 4 tires?

Then I got a little brave and decided to stomp on it (not all the way) in a turn (from a stop). Whoa!. The back end slipped one way hard then then quickly snapped the other way for no reason. I figured it must be the LSD kicking in because of the turn and the skidding. Ofcourse in slick situtations, that might happen as well..

JOhn

[BlueRanger]

LSD might be good on street, but it doesnt do jack for me offroad. Get all the weight off of one tire, well the one will no traction just spins, no matter how slow, or how much brake modulation I give it. As soon as I can afford it, its powetrax for me. Untill then, the LSD wiill be fine, but dont expect miracles off road from it. (BTW, 2500 miles on it)

[auslandt]

OK... my $0.02.

Open vs LSD on ice and snow. If you are not a good driver, or you are not careful, the Open diff is more idiot proof from getting into bigger problems. However, on the reverse side, if you are a careful driver, use the gas pedal how it should be used in those conditions, the LSD will help keep you from getting in trouble. Abuse it and it will abuse you.

Trying to link the Open vs LSD to dangerous driving on slick surfaces is like linking drinking beer vs scotch for getting drunk. It isn't what you have, it is how you use it.

Next. LSD does NOT mean both wheels will spin. There are too many factors here. The only fact is that if one wheel has 0 torque (on slick ice, in the air, etc) the other wheel will only apply the amount of torque it takes to overcome the clutch plates in the LSD. So... in this circumstance there are a few outcomes of what the wheels and vehicle are doing.

1) If the non free wheel is also on ice. The maximum torque that can be provided by the LSD is greater than the maximum torque the wheel can apply to the road (surface friction). This wheel CAN slip. IF... and i do mean IF... you apply enough gas to the engine to actually APPLY more torque to the wheel than the wheel can apply to the road. This wheel will spin.

2) Still on ice, now we are careful. IF you only apply enough gas to provide traction, but not too much to overcome road friction, this wheel will not spin.

3) The non free wheel is on high traction surface (dry pavement). The torque needed to overpower the clutch plates in the LSD is MUCH less than needed to overpower the surface friction between the tire and road. This wheel will not spin.

NOW... The key here is wheel spinning, not wheel turning or car moving. Wheel spinning to me is the wheel is spinning faster than it is moving across the ground. Wheel turning is where the wheel is turning at the same speed it is moving over the ground. Car moving means the car is travling in the direction desired.

No where did I say your wheels will turn or your car will move in any of the 3 conditions. There are yet more factors here. If the torque needed to move the car is greater than can be applied to the tire with traction, the car will not move.

If the torque needed to move the car is GREATER than the maximum torque allowed on the surface friction, the car will not move. This means that the wheel MIGHT spin (slick surface) or it MIGHT NOT spin (traction surface). Notice here the LSD is providing some torque to a tire, it is not spinning, it is not turning, car is not moving. This is a somewhat rare condition for an LSD. Generaly found on uphill travel. However, this is the NATURAL condition for an open diff.

Well enough of my windbag answer. I recommend reading this page. It was shown here before, but it was VERY informative on this subject.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

In short, Open, LSD, LOCK, they all have goods and bads. The bads are generally minimized by intelligent, knowledgeable driving.

And personally to me, the best of all worlds is a selectable locker.

[KLS]

Originally Posted by dnels

Ken,
I agree about the tires. I fear that the stock BFG's are neither good for dry,wet or snowy roads. It's tough to shell out $600 for another set of tires after paying big $$$ for the truck!

Getting use to it will be tough also; time will tell...

dave

$520 + UPS for four 245/75QR16 Bridgestone Winter Dueler DM-Z2 tires and four steel Toyota take-off wheels, mounted & balanced, from Tirerack. I have them and they work very well.

Tirerack also has cheaper Firestone Winterforce tires and Dean (Cooper) Wintermaster. Some of the Dean tires I've been seeing have been hard to balance without a lot of weight or havn't been very round.

It is hard to beat Tirerack's price for the mounted & balanced combo on steel wheels.


Ken

[fooddude]

All this down talk on the LSD I don't believe. Maybe for a cheap TRD unit. Try a KAAZ lsd, you'll never end up with one tire fire.

[jim65wagon]

There are some excellent articles about differentials and their operation on www.eco4wd.com . Its all posted in the free newsletters (online). Good site, with lots of info.

[dnels]

Guys,

Thanks for all the informative posts.
It's slowly sinking in...
I now know that the problem is perhaps more of my making than the truck's.
I'll just have to remember to take it easier in the turns.

Thanks again,
Dave