S&S Long Tube Headers Installed, Yeah!!

[bomber]

Well the headers from (S&S) hell are installed with hands that look like I got in a fight with an ice pick and lost. Below is a short laundry list of observations:

1) YOU HAVE TO REMOVE YOUR EXHAUST STUDS TO PUT THESE ON!!!!! If I had known that, I probably would have thought long and hard about purchasing and installing these guys. You have to remove the studs to slide the headers in place.

2) The ehxaust bolts that came with the kit were 12mm and not 10mm (shaft size) so I had no choice but to remove the studs, place the headers, reinstall the studs and then install new exhaust nuts. Major friggin pain in the arse!! I talked to Loren and he is going to correct this. If you have the kit and haven't installed yet, look and see if the 16 bolts have an 8.5 on the head. If so, they will not work (too big for the heads) call S&S and have them replace before starting any work.

3) Do not reuse your exhaust nuts. I retorqued the autochromes (that I just removed) after two weeks of driving and a couple had loosened, there was blow by on the front left header gasket. If you can install them with just your fingers the locking mechanism is shot - replace them.

4) A 14mm ratcheting box end is absolutely essential - do not tackle this job without one. Believe and trust me on this one!!!! Most all of the nuts/bolts are accessible from the top and some can only be tightened a quarter at a time.

5) If I had to do it over again, I would only buy these headers in stainless steel. You can't help but honk up the ceramic coating in strategic places because of the tightness of the long tubes. They will get scratched and get scratched pretty good.

6) The donut gasket between the Y pipe and muffler needs to be addressed. I know that I will eventually have a muffler shop do something differrent. Having to connect two flared tubes to a donut gasket at a very inportant stress point is a joke. These joints will not align perfectly to install the clam shell clamp and there is no way in HE double hockey stick that you will not have a leak at this joint.

7) THE PERFORMANCE KICKS BUTT. Compared to the Autochrome headers that I just removed, no comparison. This is after the first drive also so I expect things to get better after a week or so. When you step on it now it goes. It goes all the way through all gears up to about 80 mph where I don't need to be but did for testing only. There is no throttle lag and you can't help but spin tires (yes even with an LSD) at red lights if you don't pay attention. This is the performace we were all looking for without a blower.

8) DO NOT USE FABRIC, CHEAPO, EXHAUST GASKETS. Go to the dealer, take a crow bar to your wallet and get new Toyota exhaust gaskets and nuts. You may want to consider copper perfromance gaskets for the junctions to the high flow cats if you can find them. I will eventually go to these when I address the donut gasket issue.

9) There are other stuff that IMDONE has posted about throttle cables, extensions, installation, etc. Read and understand before the install. I consider myself a pretty decent backyard mechanic having rebuilt many Chevy, Ford and Dodge engines but I can honestly say that this is not a job for the weak of heart. The long tubes make life difficult but not unmanageable. The key word is patience, have the right tools, take your time, have plenty of good beer and a good friend to help (the beer is partial payment for the good friend). If it is not going well, and there will be times when you say there is no way these things fit, stop have a smoke if you smoke, have a beer if you like beer, stretch a little, thank Jesus for helping you get these things on, then proceed again.

FWIW,
bomber

[Imdone]

Originally Posted by bomber

Well the headers from (S&S) hell are installed with hands that look like I got in a fight with an ice pick and lost. Below is a short laundry list of observations:

1) YOU HAVE TO REMOVE YOUR EXHAUST STUDS TO PUT THESE ON!!!!! If I had known that, I probably would have thought long and hard about purchasing and installing these guys. You have to remove the studs to slide the headers in place.

2) The ehxaust bolts that came with the kit were 12mm and not 10mm (shaft size) so I had no choice but to remove the studs, place the headers, reinstall the studs and then install new exhaust nuts. Major friggin pain in the arse!! I talked to Loren and he is going to correct this. If you have the kit and haven't installed yet, look and see if the 16 bolts have an 8.5 on the head. If so, they will not work (too big for the heads) call S&S and have them replace before starting any work.

3) Do not reuse your exhaust nuts. I retorqued the autochromes (that I just removed) after two weeks of driving and a couple had loosened, there was blow by on the front left header gasket. If you can install them with just your fingers the locking mechanism is shot - replace them.

4) A 14mm ratcheting box end is absolutely essential - do not tackle this job without one. Believe and trust me on this one!!!! Most all of the nuts/bolts are accessible from the top and some can only be tightened a quarter at a time.

5) If I had to do it over again, I would only buy these headers in stainless steel. You can't help but honk up the ceramic coating in strategic places because of the tightness of the long tubes. They will get scratched and get scratched pretty good.

6) The donut gasket between the Y pipe and muffler needs to be addressed. I know that I will eventually have a muffler shop do something differrent. Having to connect two flared tubes to a donut gasket at a very inportant stress point is a joke. These joints will not align perfectly to install the clam shell clamp and there is no way in HE double hockey stick that you will not have a leak at this joint.

7) THE PERFORMANCE KICKS BUTT. Compared to the Autochrome headers that I just removed, no comparison. This is after the first drive also so I expect things to get better after a week or so. When you step on it now it goes. It goes all the way through all gears up to about 80 mph where I don't need to be but did for testing only. There is no throttle lag and you can't help but spin tires (yes even with an LSD) at red lights if you don't pay attention. This is the performace we were all looking for without a blower.

8) DO NOT USE FABRIC, CHEAPO, EXHAUST GASKETS. Go to the dealer, take a crow bar to your wallet and get new Toyota exhaust gaskets and nuts. You may want to consider copper perfromance gaskets for the junctions to the high flow cats if you can find them. I will eventually go to these when I address the donut gasket issue.

9) There are other stuff that IMDONE has posted about throttle cables, extensions, installation, etc. Read and understand before the install. I consider myself a pretty decent backyard mechanic having rebuilt many Chevy, Ford and Dodge engines but I can honestly say that this is not a job for the weak of heart. The long tubes make life difficult but not unmanageable. The key word is patience, have the right tools, take your time, have plenty of good beer and a good friend to help (the beer is partial payment for the good friend). If it is not going well, and there will be times when you say there is no way these things fit, stop have a smoke if you smoke, have a beer if you like beer, stretch a little, thank Jesus for helping you get these things on, then proceed again.

FWIW,
bomber

This is all so true, I am glad that you are happy with them now that they are on.

You will see increases as the computer adjusts and it only gets better.

[Larry CCF]

been reading all the header strings and there seems to be something i missed but everybody seems to focus on aftermarket headers as opposed to the TRDs -

can someone enlighten me - i'm a newbie to the board and to toyota TRD items

[Genthar]

Originally Posted by Larry CCF

been reading all the header strings and there seems to be something i missed but everybody seems to focus on aftermarket headers as opposed to the TRDs -

can someone enlighten me - i'm a newbie to the board and to toyota TRD items

The TRD headers are quite expensive, so people are looking for alternatives. Also, the S&S Longtube headers are a very different design from most of the other headers out there. All of the other headers available (TRD, JBA, SSAutochrome, Downey) for the Tundra are all short, or mixed tube length headers which is much better than the cast iron log that is in use now, but not optimum for low end torque and power. Long tube headers such as the S&S headers are designed to increase your torque and HP at the low end of the RPM range, where you typically use it (especially for towing), rather than at the mid to high rpm bands where it's less useable. The shorty or mixed length headers from the other offerings all have their increases at higher RPM's.

The JBA, Downey, and SSAutochrome headers are significantly less expensive than the TRD's for very similar designs. If you require CARB legal headers, JBA or TRD are the only available options (though I'm not sure if the Downey's are CARB certed or not...I don't think they are...)

[KLS]

In addition to what's already been said, the TRD headers need professional welded installation.


Ken

[Larry CCF]

In addition to what's already been said, the TRD headers need professional welded installation.


Ken


i'm curious about the needing welding part
can you give me any detail

as to the comments above about the tuning characteristics of the different headers, I agree that shorter tube lengths are for horsepower gains at higher rpms, but how long are the SS long tubes? approximate will suffice

reason i ask, one of the shops that builds a lot of headers for the stock car short track cars is right here in richmond and i remember the old timer {that everybody from the stock car crews kept referring me to) when i asked him about length for a set of headers i was building for a experimental aircraft engine, he didn't care about engine displacement , just rpm
he asked me what rpm i would running at predominantly - for 5200 RPM he indicated 35" - 36" should be the optimal length
also indicated that for individual cars they ran the engine at the rpm that they were seeking to max hp at and would cut the pipes (each pipe) at whatever spot it quit glowing - ie where the flame died down inside the tube

his exhaust's always seemed to deliver a real sweet "ferarri" sound no matter what v8 they were on (just a little tangent there, not really relative)

[Imdone]

Originally Posted by Larry CCF

In addition to what's already been said, the TRD headers need professional welded installation.


Ken


i'm curious about the needing welding part
can you give me any detail

as to the comments above about the tuning characteristics of the different headers, I agree that shorter tube lengths are for horsepower gains at higher rpms, but how long are the SS long tubes? approximate will suffice

reason i ask, one of the shops that builds a lot of headers for the stock car short track cars is right here in richmond and i remember the old timer {that everybody from the stock car crews kept referring me to) when i asked him about length for a set of headers i was building for a experimental aircraft engine, he didn't care about engine displacement , just rpm
he asked me what rpm i would running at predominantly - for 5200 RPM he indicated 35" - 36" should be the optimal length
also indicated that for individual cars they ran the engine at the rpm that they were seeking to max hp at and would cut the pipes (each pipe) at whatever spot it quit glowing - ie where the flame died down inside the tube

his exhaust's always seemed to deliver a real sweet "ferarri" sound no matter what v8 they were on (just a little tangent there, not really relative)

I believe the TRDs need to be welded to the cats. I could be wrong but I think I remember reading that on this site.


The S&S headers are just shy of 36"

[v8Toilet]

The S&S headers are probably the king in letting the engine produce the best low-end torque but for $900 I really think they should be made of stainless steel. In my climate they wouldn’t last for very long even being ceramic coated. The JBA headers make a close second when it comes to low-end torque!

[dwa]

For anyone who has the S&S headers, have you seen any increase in mileage in addition to the low end torque? If so, what kind of increase? Thanks

[rgerdes]

Originally Posted by dwa

For anyone who has the S&S headers, have you seen any increase in mileage in addition to the low end torque? If so, what kind of increase? Thanks

I have a 2000 2wd. I have a s/c, lsd and S&S long tubes. Before the headers were installed I would get about 17mpg when I drove it normal. I just took a trip from Phoenix to Las Cruces, NM and got 19mpg. My opinion yes I'm getting better mileage and I think IMDONE would tell you that his mileage has improved. My truck weighed in at 5200 lbs for the trip.

[d0truji]

Originally Posted by hovisimo

for the price, S&S offers you much more the bang for your buck as opposed to TRD. imo the stone mountain headers are junk and should be avoided. either do it right the first time and go with S&S or don't do it at all. if i could do it again i'd have spent the extra money on S&S, or not installed headers at all. TRD is overpriced and generally not worth it.

Not sure why you think the Stone Mountain headers are junk. I've read all of your posts regarding the problems you have had with them but you seem to be the exception, not the rule. As a matter of fact, I don't remember many positive threads started by you. (No flame intended, just a fact) I have these headers and am very pleased with the price to performance ratio as well as with the quality. I have no leaks and was able to install them myself without welding, or cutting.
That said, I have to say that the JBA's and the S&S are better headers but again, I stand by my opinion that for the cost, Stone Mountain are darn good.

[Dude Boy]

1) YOU HAVE TO REMOVE YOUR EXHAUST STUDS TO PUT THESE ON!!!!! If I had known that, I probably would have thought long and hard about purchasing and installing these guys. You have to remove the studs to slide the headers in place.

3) Do not reuse your exhaust nuts. I retorqued the autochromes (that I just removed) after two weeks of driving and a couple had loosened, there was blow by on the front left header gasket. If you can install them with just your fingers the locking mechanism is shot - replace them.

1) Hey, I knew that because I read Imdone's installation posts!

3) I don't think that was the reason the nuts became loose. More likely it was because the gaskets "relaxed" and you didn't retorque them before they had time to start leaking. When I installed my headers, I used the old nuts and the fiber gaskets. I warmed the engine, but tightened all the nuts before driving it. In fact, I tightened them every time I drove it until it was no longer necessary. I've had mine on about a year and a half, and the nuts stay tight with no leakage.

Some of these aftermarket headers don't have flanges that are true enough to run the factory steel gaskets.

[G-MAN MD]

Originally Posted by d0truji

Not sure why you think the Stone Mountain headers are junk. I've read all of your posts regarding the problems you have had with them but you seem to be the exception, not the rule. As a matter of fact, I don't remember many positive threads started by you. (No flame intended, just a fact) ...

I don't want to waste fuel where "no flame is intended", but I've picked up on that a lot from his other threads. In fact I just recieved a nice little pot shot from him this week demeaning my stereo setup on a thread about XM radios. Nice guy.

BTW, I bought the AR Atlas wheels for my '00 ltd based on your pix...they really look great. I use Mother's wheel polish to keep them up. Works well, if you've found something better would you pm me? I know this isn't the right thread for that.

[bayman]

Can someone please tell me what the best headers are for low end power and torque . I dont race my truck just want a little more at 2000 rpm . I checked out the ebay site look at the ssautocrome 304 ss with 1 5/8 primiaries .do they do the job? thanks looking foreward to the response

[dwa]

Originally Posted by rgerdes

I have a 2000 2wd. I have a s/c, lsd and S&S long tubes. Before the headers were installed I would get about 17mpg when I drove it normal. I just took a trip from Phoenix to Las Cruces, NM and got 19mpg. My opinion yes I'm getting better mileage and I think IMDONE would tell you that his mileage has improved. My truck weighed in at 5200 lbs for the trip.

rgerdes,
Thanks for the reply. Appreciate the info