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Old 12-28-2003, 12:23 PM
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Default Where's the beef, Toyota?

What do you think?



Posted on Fri, Dec. 12, 2003

Toyota Double Cab needs beefier engine
By Matt Nauman
Mercury News

With its new Double Cab model, Toyota did a good job of turning the inside of its full-size Tundra pickup into a sport-utility-like cabin. It comes with four doors and tons of back-seat legroom.

Behind it, there's a 74-inch cargo bed that's seven inches longer than the one found in the Ford F-150 Supercrew or the Nissan Titan Crew Cab.

Now if only Toyota could drop in a beefier engine.

And add a dollop -- OK, better make that a 10-gallon-hat-size serving -- of truck toughness, too.

That's where the Tundra continues to suffer.

First, let's recap recent history.

Earlier this year, Ford released its much-awaited 2004 F-150, the industry's bestselling truck for 26 years. It got a stiffer frame, a revised rear suspension, a sleeker exterior and a vastly better interior. It comes with either a 231-horsepower, 4.6-liter V-8 or the new 300-horsepower, 5.4-liter V-8. Ford just reported that F-Series sales were up 10 percent in November, compared to the same month in 2002.

Then, this month, Nissan delivered its first full-size pickup, the Titan. Although it comes in fewer variants than the F-150, the Titan aims for the center of the segment by providing a boldly designed truck that carries a 305-horsepower, 5.6-liter V-8.

Realizing the big-truck game is changing fast, Toyota responded with a new model of its own, the Tundra Double Cab. It joins a lineup that offers regular cab and Access Cab (with smaller rear doors that only open when the front ones are opened first) versions. Toyota offers a 190-horsepower, 3.4-liter V-6 and a 240-horsepower, 4.7-liter V-8.

And that's the V-8 that the Double Cab gets. It adds four doors, but not a stronger engine.

Not surprisingly, Toyota prefers to emphasize that the Tundra's V-8 makes 315 pound-feet of torque. Still that number is much less than the F-150's 365 and the Titan's 379.

For towing, the Tundra Double Cab has a maximum capacity of 6,800 pounds (4x2) and 6,500 pounds (4x4). Nissan and Ford claim more than 9,000 pounds of towing capacity.

Ignoring the numbers -- and full-size truck buyers won't -- the Tundra Double Cab suffers from Toyota's lack of full-size truck savvy. (As an aside, I've always found the Fremont-built Toyota Tacoma fully competitive with the Rangers, S-10s and Dakotas of the small-truck world.)

Plain and simple, this truck is just too much like a car, like Toyota's own bestselling Camry. What works in a car -- pretty illuminated gauges, fake wood trim, petite interior door handles -- fail miserably in a truck.

These are rugged, duty-doing vehicles. Yes, today's truck buyers like leather seats and fancy stereos, but they also like a more macho approach to design. The Tundra's cabin is just too timid.

That same is true for the truck's exterior. Nissan has a bright, brassy front. Dodge has its menacing big-rig face. The new F-150 has neat lights and a very aggressive silhouette. The Tundra, meanwhile, looks bland, generic. And adding the big rear doors only makes for a more awkward look, compared with the Access Cab model.

Nissan even did a better job of designing the truck's running boards than did Toyota.

Of course, Toyota loyalists will find much to like with the Tundra Double Cab. The rear seat is extremely spacious. Expect quality to be of the usual Toyota excellence. And for those who don't need big towing or a roaring V-8, the Tundra is plenty strong enough for work or play.

Having the longer bed was nice when we went out to buy our Christmas tree last weekend. The ride was solid, and it's very quiet for a big truck. And the power rear window was a neat touch, too.

Prices for the Tundra Double Cab range from $25,645 to $32,600.

Our 4x2 Limited model had about $5,000 in options, including a bedliner ($299) and color-keyed running boards ($345). Its sticker price was $34,592. Gas mileage is 14 mpg in the city and 18 mpg on the highway.

In a few years, Toyota will redesign the Tundra when its new truck plant opens in San Antonio. Until then, it seems reasonable to assume that Toyota will continue to sell the Tundra to buyers who cherish its brand name and appreciate its refinement. But not to those who think tough and truck go together like peanut butter and jelly.

TEN-SECOND

TEST DRIVE

2004 Toyota Tundra Double Cab full-size pickup

• Price: $34,592

• Stars: ***(hstr)(hstr)

• Why we'd buy it: Four doors; big back seat; Toyota quality

• Why we wouldn't: Weak V-8; not enough truck toughness


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact Matt Nauman at mnauman@mercurynews.com or (408) 920-5701. His fax number is (408) 271-3786.
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Old 12-28-2003, 08:27 PM
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I went to an auto show today and saw the titan and dubcab for the first time, but of course didnt drive either. I like my regcab tundra, but if I could afford it, Id get a stripped down dubcab right away! I sat in one with cloth buckets and they are GREAT!!! Back seats are excellent too. The seats in titan and F150 are mediocre at best. Good seats and design counts for a lot in my book, rather than just brutishness. My current tundra has a V6, so a V8 is still a step up for me. Also, I dont do any towing, so I dont need a bigger V8, though I wouldnt mind having 300 horses under the hood so I can dust people off the line. I think if toyota dropped a 300hp V8 in the dubcab and offered a 3rd front seat, it could be the perfect truck IMO. If the truck was a little wider and beefier it wouldnt hurt, but keep the layout and seats!
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Old 12-28-2003, 10:24 PM
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Default Plenty of Bovine in Access Cab

Went w/ a friend (who owns an older model Chevrolet w/350) to some foothills today. I have gotten used to driving the Tundra now I don't notice the power. He commented on the power during hill climbing and passing.
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Old 12-28-2003, 10:49 PM
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It seems like Toyota could splice together two 2.7L fours to make a 5.4 litre V8...something like 300 HP & 354 ft-lbs.



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Old 12-29-2003, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by file014
I went to an auto show today and saw the titan and dubcab for the first time, but of course didnt drive either. I like my regcab tundra, but if I could afford it, Id get a stripped down dubcab right away! I sat in one with cloth buckets and they are GREAT!!! Back seats are excellent too. The seats in titan and F150 are mediocre at best. Good seats and design counts for a lot in my book, rather than just brutishness. My current tundra has a V6, so a V8 is still a step up for me. Also, I dont do any towing, so I dont need a bigger V8, though I wouldnt mind having 300 horses under the hood so I can dust people off the line. I think if toyota dropped a 300hp V8 in the dubcab and offered a 3rd front seat, it could be the perfect truck IMO. If the truck was a little wider and beefier it wouldnt hurt, but keep the layout and seats!
did they change seats in 04'?
thats strange- i would say the worst part on my 03' is the damn seats!
they are so , so , !@#$ing cheap. isat in my bosses new shop truck -
bottem of the line, cheapest( $15,500 ) gmc 2wd 1500 03' and let me tell you the cloth seats are sooooooooo much more comfortable. now thats the cheap domestic truck seat and it kills my sr5 buckets
whys it so hard to make nice seats for a full size rig?
i'm 230lbs 6' tall and climbing in and out of the seats they feel like they are going to break.
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Old 12-30-2003, 11:06 AM
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IF Nissan has the beef it could possible have mad cow disease then eh?
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Old 12-30-2003, 03:09 PM
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Lightbulb gas mileage

Interesting that he didn't mention gas mileage at all, and only alluded to lower maintenance costs and resale value by mentioning "Toyota Quality".

Toyota has always catered to the eductated consumer that thinks about gas mileage, repairs, resale value, etc. It would be hard to dispute that for the same money with less bells and whistles, you are getting an overall better quality vehicle, that will cost less in the long run, as long as you outsmart the stealership when it comes to routine maintenance.

And as for the plain looks, well, I can't think of a Toyota vehicle that is necessarily tough looking. Toyota goes for the sporty look, and I personally prefer that. Gives you more of a blank canvas to work with. I've seen a bunch of the new fords. I don't like how the Ford designers decided what you want your truck to look like for you.

The debate will rage on forever, but I would rather be driving around in my "plain", reliable truck, while the other guys are driving around in their their big, bad a$$, money pit, gas guzzler, sitting on a thin wallet.

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Old 12-31-2003, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hovisimo
GM trucks have got seating down. i remember the leather seats in father-in-law's 00 sierra, they were very supportive and comfortable for long drives.

seats in the '03 envoy are OK, the lumbar support is decent but a tad too high, more like your middle back than lower back, and the bottom cushion is too hard and feels like a wooden school desk after 1000 miles. i'd actually have preferred the tundra seats on the last road trip.
GM has come a long way with their seats. The ones in my '98 Sub were excellent. Now the Captain's chairs in my '93 GMC Super Cab were like sitting on park benches....terrible.
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Old 12-31-2003, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandzach


did they change seats in 04'?
thats strange- i would say the worst part on my 03' is the damn seats!
they are so , so , !@#$ing cheap. isat in my bosses new shop truck -
bottem of the line, cheapest( $15,500 ) gmc 2wd 1500 03' and let me tell you the cloth seats are sooooooooo much more comfortable. now thats the cheap domestic truck seat and it kills my sr5 buckets
whys it so hard to make nice seats for a full size rig?
i'm 230lbs 6' tall and climbing in and out of the seats they feel like they are going to break.
No I dont think they changed the seats. I guess I just like toyota seats. GM has good seats in some of their vehicles, but its hit or miss, IMO. Yes GM trucks are good seats.
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