To many people over do it with oil concerns

[Two4X4]

"but last I checked it is illegal to make claims that can't be verified by independent testing."

Holy cow, no, actually not. In fact this really is not the case at all. You don't actually think your wanger is going to get "bigger and more powerful" if you take Promaxall or whatever sorta snake oil they are selling to the insecure sorts now do you? Surely you realize the ancient art of salesmanship is no less prevalent today that in the past and always will be as long as gullible folks are around to partake.
There are recent tests that show Mobil 1 equals or is so slightly different from Amsoil on that so vaunted 4 ball test as to be of no consequence. An artical in SportRider, a bike magazine, did a pretty good oil test though certainly not the "last word". They hired an independent lab to scruitinize bike oils and some auto oils commonly used in bikes. Amsoil and Mobil 1 were both represented. The results show that the Amsoil had a better additive package for LONG DRAIN INTERVALS. Their additives were better for absorbing and neutralizing acids. Mobil 1 however was superior in several areas including temeprature protection, sheer stability for viscosity etc. Results in the 4 ball test---essentially equal.
Redline and Amsoil are great products, they are hard to find and more expensive than Mobil 1 which is easily found everywhere and routinely placed on sale or rebates or coupons etc. Make mine the ONE.

[Mike Donofrio]

Originally Posted by Two4X4

"but last I checked it is illegal to make claims that can't be verified by independent testing."

Holy cow, no, actually not. In fact this really is not the case at all. You don't actually think your wanger is going to get "bigger and more powerful" if you take Promaxall or whatever sorta snake oil they are selling to the insecure sorts now do you? Surely you realize the ancient art of salesmanship is no less prevalent today that in the past and always will be as long as gullible folks are around to partake.
There are recent tests that show Mobil 1 equals or is so slightly different from Amsoil on that so vaunted 4 ball test as to be of no consequence. An artical in SportRider, a bike magazine, did a pretty good oil test though certainly not the "last word". They hired an independent lab to scruitinize bike oils and some auto oils commonly used in bikes. Amsoil and Mobil 1 were both represented. The results show that the Amsoil had a better additive package for LONG DRAIN INTERVALS. Their additives were better for absorbing and neutralizing acids. Mobil 1 however was superior in several areas including temeprature protection, sheer stability for viscosity etc. Results in the 4 ball test---essentially equal.
Redline and Amsoil are great products, they are hard to find and more expensive than Mobil 1 which is easily found everywhere and routinely placed on sale or rebates or coupons etc. Make mine the ONE.

We can agree to disagree, that's fine-after all-lively debate it what we're all about here. But until I can see some numbers officially posted by Mobil or an independent, I think my previous post speaks for itself. I am not driving a motorcycle, I am driving a pickup--the applications are different (rpms, tolerances etc) so I am not certain that I would use Sportrider to inform me about what I put in my pickup. At least you're using Synthetic and not throwin' FUD about how alls oils are the same like Mark's ..

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by Brian M

Man, you guys are really serious about this.

How you guys feel about Wesson vs. Crisco?

Dangerous to use that stuff Brian. If you use it you may have to add a tablet of Lipitor every 6 to 7 K---Buzzard

[DJ]

Originally Posted by Brian M

...

How you guys feel about Wesson vs. Crisco?

Butter. Julia Child can't be all wrong ...

[longwoodklon]

I have been following this and am surprised the debate is still going on. Go ahead and use dino if you think synthetic is a waste of money. But at ~$32k for our Sequoia, I personally feel better about putting synthetic in, and I do so in my truck as well. It's my money after all, and it buys a little piece of mind if nothing else. Sure, your engine should/could go 300,000 miles whether or not you use dino or synthetic, but it's that small chance that something happens at 50,00 miles and then you'll be wondering if synthetic would have made a difference.
-- And all this talk about proof. They haven't PROVED that power lines cause cancer, but I wouldn't want to live next to one and you could never convince me otherwise.
/Mike

[Two4X4]

Originally Posted by Mike Donofrio

We can agree to disagree, that's fine-after all-lively debate it what we're all about here. But until I can see some numbers officially posted by Mobil or an independent, I think my previous post speaks for itself. I am not driving a motorcycle, I am driving a pickup--the applications are different (rpms, tolerances etc) so I am not certain that I would use Sportrider to inform me about what I put in my pickup. At least you're using Synthetic and not throwin' FUD about how alls oils are the same like Mark's ..

I think you missed the point. The artical in SportRider had several auto oils and lab tests of fresh product for the 4 ball test, additive packages, chemical makeup, sheer stability and viscosity etc don't know or care if it is for a bike or a car. Secondly, as a long time mechanic, the differences between types of engines and this "tolerences" thing people got going on is really urban legend to a large degree. The only reason I referenced it was because it is the most recent of many tests I have read in a variety of venues. I actually have a few measuring instruments and ball guages etc and fail to see this "tolerence" difference thing people get so worked up about.
As I said earlier, I once worked for a major petroleum company who ran a series of oil tests of their products and various competitors. I was a trainee and got to see as a consequence of that position some interesting data, always having been something of a gearhead. The fact is that Mobil 1 was on top in most every catagory at that time, the company I worked for was not Mobil. They did not test Redline or Amsoil. Subsequent independent tests however satisfly me that Mobil 1, Amsoil or Redline are all three great products and far superior to conventional oils.
Mobil can supply you with a tech manual for Mobil 1 oils, I have one here, they also have a tech line. I kinda forgot what it is you are questioning? I have been using Mobil 1 since the stuff came out in everything I own from lawnmowers to boats and all my cars and bikes and even my air compressors. The only thing I would not use it on is aircraft because conventional aircraft engines still use leaded fuels and current synthetics will precipitate lead sulfide deposites--they are not intended for use with leaded fuels. I hold an FAA Airframe and Powerplant Mechanics license so I am an expert on that anyway. J

[Rlockyer]

Originally Posted by Two4X4

The fact is that Mobil 1 was on top in most every catagory at that time, the company I worked for was not Mobil. They did not test Redline or Amsoil. Subsequent independent tests however satisfly me that Mobil 1, Amsoil or Redline are all three great products and far superior to conventional oils.

First, understand that I am with you and use M1 oil and filter.

Okay.

Mark and Mike are not saying that M1 is not superior to conventional oils, but (at least Mark) are saying that it is overkill for our application.

Thunderbird and Dom Perrignon will both get you puking drunk. What is your goal... to get drunk, or to enjoy a fine drink?

M1 and Rotella will both protect our engines adequately enough to meet factory specs for 5,000 miles. What is our goal? To keep the warranty in force and keep the engine running as cheaply as possible until we turn in our lease or trade/sell at 100,000 miles, or to make that engine run as long and as efficiently as possible?

MY goal is long term. For me, the extra $20 every month or two is worth it. It put a LOT of miles on my truck (already have 65k on an '03 purchased Nov '02), and it has to last 5-7 years, or about 250,000 miles.
Would conventional oil do the trick? Maybe. My '94 survived 225k of 12k oil changes with Castrol 20w50 and whatever filter Jiffy Lube put on (Pennzoil/Fram)... and it was in need of work when I traded it.

[bassdog]

I read most of these posts and have to say I have used Mobil 1 in my last 2 trucks. After my last oil change my mechanic asked me if I noticed a difference using synth... truthfully I said no, I had nothing to compare that "difference" he was referring to.

However, here are two links that changed my mind about switching to synthetics in the first place......

http://www.motoroilbible.com/index.html

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/


I'm up in the air as to which oil I will use in my Tundra, I am tired of paying $60 every 3K.

[Rlockyer]

Originally Posted by bassdog

I'm up in the air as to which oil I will use in my Tundra, I am tired of paying $60 every 3K.

#1 - If you're going with synth, there is no reason to change at 3k.
IMNSHO, there's no reason to change at 3k with dino either, but with synth, you can go to the max change intervals allowed by your warranty. You can actually nearly double that interval but your warranty would be shot.
Current Toyota manuals allow for only 5,000 intervals.... my '03 allows for 5k or 7500, depending on conditions. KLS is currently running an experiment and is now beyond 12k on Mobil-1 with oil analysis indicating that it is STILL good and clean.

#2 - $60 is too much. Do it yourself for $35, including a Mobil-1 filter.

Everyone cries about the oil companies jabbing us with fuel costs, yet willingly pay those same oil companies TWICE what they need to for oil changes every 3k when no auto manufacturer requires it.

[RichR]

Originally Posted by Rlockyer

#1 - KLS is currently running an experiment and is now beyond 12k on Mobil-1 with oil analysis indicating that it is STILL good and clean.
.

KLS is using Schaeffers Supreme synth blend.
Very close to Mobil 1 spec wise.Cost $4.25 per quart with shipping.
I'm trying to break the bond of 3k and go to spring/fall changes.
I put about 12k a year on the odo.
Not even close to Rlockyer yearly mileage.
Just had to clarify/plug Schaeffers.
RichR

[Two4X4]

I'm up in the air as to which oil I will use in my Tundra, I am tired of paying $60 every 3K. [/quote]


Another urban myth. Only the cheapest grade oils such as Quaker State and Pennzoils base products need changing every 3,000 miles. I have used a 7,500 mile interval for years until I moved down a dirt/clay road. Now I went to a 5,000 mile change because of the dirt road. Normal mostly road use I would feel confident with any quality syn blend or sythetic oil going 7,500 miles. I would feel just as confident going 5,000 miles with a premium non synthetic (but not 7,500). The 3,000 mile myth is a huge waste of money and resources--please stop doing that. Your not driving an antique car from the 30's with Quaker State are you? Stop the 3,000 mile foolishness. The ONLY time 3,000 mile change even come close to making sense is for people who drive 5 miles to work, stop and then drive 5 miles home and never get their engines up to temp to cook of moisture and other bad things.

[KLS]

I rank Shell's four oils:
a) Pennzoil
b) Shell
c) Quaker St.
d) Wolf's Head

I think Pennzoil is one of the best conventional oils available...I also like Chevron/Havoline and Castrol.


Ken

[Rlockyer]

Originally Posted by Two4X4

The ONLY time 3,000 mile change even come close to making sense is for people who drive 5 miles to work, stop and then drive 5 miles home and never get their engines up to temp to cook of moisture and other bad things.

The one other case I would still consider 3k (or 5k on a synth) is with an older musclecar still using 30-year old technology, fit, and finish.
Even with a modern rebuild, the engine will still be no easier on oil than it was in 1970. True, today's oils are better, but the engine will still produce as much blow-by and have the same hot spots and oil puddles in the lifter valley and under the rockers that it always had... and today's filters haven't changed much (or in the case of Fram, gotten worse) unless you go with a synthetic media.

It's a shame that AC discontinued the synthetic Duraguard. That was a nice filter at half the price of the M1.