To many people over do it with oil concerns

I see a lot of people over concerned about the brand and oil type let it be conventional oil or synthetic.Our engines will not see the benefit of a synthetic oil i.e. only racing applications may benefit an engine, say top fuel or nascar racing.To many of us are paranoid in thinking were getting better lubrication for some reason with synthetics and can run our oils longer than a normal interval of 3k-5k. I myself have gone back to using castrol dino and changing it at 3k- 4k with a good filter.Synthetic oils may be better than conventional in certain applications, and does not benefit us in every day driving. It's not worth the added money for what gain? Maybe in our minds!!

[sdmahr]

Although I agree in general, I DO use synthetic oils in everthing I own! It is perhaps "peace of mind", but for the relatively low cost premium paid for synthetics, I use them primarily as insurance.

The biggest benefit I have personally seen is the cleanliness level provided by synthetics in higher mileage engines and the cold flow characteristics, which are important in winter-time driving.

Scott....(using synthetic by choice and comfortable with it !)

[maz]

Originally Posted by marks tundra

I see a lot of people concerned over concerned about the brand and oil type let it be conventional oil or synthetic.Our engines will not see the benefit of a synthetic oil i.e. only racing applications may benefit an engine, say top fuel or nascar racing.To many of us paranoid in thinking were getting better lubrication for some reason with synthetics and can run our oils longer than a normal interval of 3k-5k. I myself have gone back to using castrol dino and changing it at 3k- 4k with a good filter.Synthetic oils may be better than conventional in certain applications, and does not benefit us in every day driving. It's not worth the added money for what gain? Maybe in our minds!!

I think a lot of it has to do with avoiding regret. Some guys don't want to be in the position later where they are saying to themselves, would synthetic have made a difference?

I fall into that category for sure. I am willing to spend more money on the hope that it will extend the life of my engine, as long as it is within reason. For instance, I would not go to Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc. But I can buy 6 quarts of Moblie 1 at Costco for $22. To me that extra 12/15 bucks every 4 to 6 months is worth it.

I guess it boils down to either peace of mind, or strange love, depending on how attached you are to your truck.

-Maz

but reg dino oil has a API STANDARD stamped on the container and most dino if not all dino oils meet or exceed manufactures spec's.I can buy the same oil protection using castrol 5w-30 or 10w-30 read the back of the bottle (even specifies japanese valvetrain wear approval) which costs any where from $1.19 TO $1.66. I change both oil and filter 7qts oil (i have an external oil filter relocater and use AC PF2 or STP 8A FILTER and it costs me
the most, $14.42 with tax. Plus walmart has specials for castrol @ .99 cents a qt every couple of months.The cost difference is alot, just for a piece of mind, it's roughly $21.00.

[DJ]

Originally Posted by marks tundra

...

Our engines will not see the benefit of a synthetic oil i.e. only racing applications may benefit an engine, say top fuel or nascar racing.

...

Synthetic oils may be better than conventional in certain applications, and does not benefit us in every day driving. It's not worth the added money for what gain?

...

How did you determine this?

designed for everyday driving and offroad applications. From my experience of even using Tech 2000 Oil and Filter(walmarts oil & filter) in my 1990 Acura Legend LS I purchased it in 1992 with 26,000 mi and just sold it last year with 198,000 mi WITHOUT ANY engine work.I replaced timing belt once.The car never burned oil.My father uses castrol in his 1986 toyota 4x4 with over 200,000 mi and never had any engine work. I also want to add that i work for a top helicopter manufacturer and when we overhaul our gearboxes/transmissions we use dino oil.Much study has gone into this issue here at work thinking the synthetic oil we did try would increase life expectancies of certain components. Well, after teardowns of simular gearboxes after they ran for 3,000 hours of simulated flight, there was not one piece of evidence that showed synthetic any better than dino oil, believe me i used to be a firm believer i was getting better protection but now i realize it a waste of money and people are going to do what they want cause they THINK SYNTHETIC is better.If you change oil as require 4k to 5k your engine will last. One last thing....these helicopter components reach for higher temps than our engines.If it was that much of a differance the company i work for would have changed over to synthetics but it's not cost effective and never increased component life either, that's how i've determined this. Just keep telling yourself synthetic is better!!

[DevinSixtySeven]

ok, what's the flow characteristics of dino oil at -30F? then that same oil at optimum engine operating temperature? that's a good reason to use dino oil. another good reason is found at the opposite end of the scale, and over time.

...but overall, you're probably right...changing at short intervals, not driving too hot or cold, dino is just fine...just as long as you don't need to ask anything out of the ordinary of your engine.

*edit* scratch that last...replace with "anything out of the ordinary of your oil"

-s

come on fella's. Maybe if you live on the north pole. Plus the only reason i would use synthetic oil is for the longer intervals, but from what i'm hearing about long change intervals is not the best thing for are engines. Who wants contaminants suspended in my synthetic oil getting cycled through my engine not me!. It's all hype, your engine is not going to see the high temps and abuse that the space shuttle and turbine engines for the use of synthetic.There is no fact that say's synthetic is better for our applications than dino oil.

[BackInBlack]

Is the most inportant reason for me. When it's below zero out the dino's still in the pan when the Mobil 1 is flowing. The engine cranks and starts the same as in warmer weather. That was not always the case in some of my preveious cars or trucks with regular oil. I,ll pay a little extra to reduse the start up wear.

for most of our driving. Do you drive your truck at 200 mph. Do you race down a qtr mile run @ 200 mph, do you fly at sonic speeds? Your reg ordinary oil will do just fine. It's got an API STANDARD that must be met.It's all marketing to get people to believe that synthetic is SO MUCH BETTER.
our trucks will NOT SEE THE EFFECTS OF HOW SYNTHETICS MAY PROTECT OUR ENGINES FROM.

[KLS]

Mark,

I agree with what you say. Synthetic oil mainly has a benefit at very cold temperatures, at very hot temperatures, for longer oil life, and some synthetics have a higher film strength.

Also, the better quality synthetics are blended with a higher quality (higher cost) additive package. This may result in a cleaner engine, longer oil life, slight fuel mileage improvement, and less engine wear over the very long run.

Some engines are tougher on oil that other engines, some climates are tougher on oil, and some folks driving habits are tougher on oil. I think one of the sludgemobile Camrys or Siennas of a couple of years ago would have come to grief with your Wally-oil. I've heard that oil is blended and packaged by Warren Oil Co. http://www.warrenoil.com/

Nothing wrong with using a high quality conventional oil like Castrol, Chevron/Havoline, Pennzoil, etc., 4k-5k oil changes, and the right viscosity for the climate. I'd suggest the highest viscosity oil permitted by the chart in your owner's manual. 10W-30 in the summer may retain its viscosity longer than 5W-30 due to the lower content of viscosity index improver polymers that tend to shear and allow the viscosity to drop. The car makers recommend the lighter viscosity for a fraction of a percentage of fuel savings, and don't worry about engine life much beyond the warranty period.

The API and ILSAC oil specs are a quality floor. Yes, they're pretty good, but by careful selection, like your Castrol, you can get oil that easily meets or exceeds the spec. Cheaper brands, or companies that don't put the cost into the oil may only meet the spec on average...some batches exceed and some batches don't quite meaure up, but they all carry the label.


Ken

[DevinSixtySeven]

i was gently pointing to the cold-flow characteristics and the differential between cold flow and nominal temperature flow. a synthetic oil will protect better in a variable or normally cold environment, like alaska, colorado (highly variable on a daily basis), or the continental interior. a synthetic oil combined with a coolant with a higher boiling point will also protect an engine crawling at mid throttle at noon in utah with the a/c on.

synth has it's place, but yes, for most engines, it's like using gold silverware at a picnic when plastic does just fine. what's really on your mind?

-s

[DJ]

Originally Posted by marks tundra

designed for everyday driving and offroad applications. From my experience of even using Tech 2000 Oil and Filter(walmarts oil & filter) in my 1990 Acura Legend LS I purchased it in 1992 with 26,000 mi and just sold it last year with 198,000 mi WITHOUT ANY engine work.I replaced timing belt once.The car never burned oil.My father uses castrol in his 1986 toyota 4x4 with over 200,000 mi and never had any engine work. I also want to add that i work for a top helicopter manufacturer and when we overhaul our gearboxes/transmissions we use dino oil.Much study has gone into this issue here at work thinking the synthetic oil we did try would increase life expectancies of certain components. Well, after teardowns of simular gearboxes after they ran for 3,000 hours of simulated flight, there was not one piece of evidence that showed synthetic any better than dino oil, believe me i used to be a firm believer i was getting better protection but now i realize it a waste of money and people are going to do what they want cause they THINK SYNTHETIC is better.If you change oil as require 4k to 5k your engine will last. One last thing....these helicopter components reach for higher temps than our engines.If it was that much of a differance the company i work for would have changed over to synthetics but it's not cost effective and never increased component life either, that's how i've determined this. Just keep telling yourself synthetic is better!!

So, you believe synthetic oil is no better then dino oil for my vehicle because your employer believes it is no better than dino oil in a helicopter gearbox? Pardon me, but I don't drive a helicopter -- I drive a truck. And, you believe synthetic oil is no better than dino oil in most any engine, based on your observed sample of TWO vehicles?

I'm an engineer. I prefer more sound reasoning and bigger samples than that.

Here's my own sampling of two vehicles:

In 1971, I bought a new 1971 Datsun 510 sedan. It had a 1.6L 4-cylinder engine with a 4-speed manual transmission. Shortly thereafter, my brother bought one like it.

My brother changed his oil at long intervals (at least 10,000 miles plus), and he sometimes changed the oil without changing the filter. He pleaded lack of funds and used the cheapest oil he could buy. Note that the oil had the proper API rating for that time. At about 91,000 miles, he had overhauled the engine FIVE TIMES. It was toast. It had scored cylinder walls, galled main and rod bearings, and finally broke the cam in half due to worn cam bearings. It wasn't sludged up -- it was just worn out.

I changed my oil and filter for the first time at 750 miles and thereafter on a 3,000 mile interval. I used Pennzoil 10W-30 and Datsun OEM filters. I sold it to a friend with 83,000 miles on it -- it never burned any oil between changes, ran like a watch, and the inside of the valve cover was shiny aluminum. My friend drove it to about 145,000 miles, at which point his cigarettes killed him and I lost track of the vehicle -- it still never burned any oil between changes and ran like a watch.

This proves NOTHING except that you can kill ANY engine through lack of maintenance.

In my unhumble opinion, there is no cheaper engine longevity insurance than keeping the engine oil CLEAN, and the most sure-fire way to do that is to change it more often than it needs. So I do. I've NEVER had an oil burner out of my ten vehicles.

The result of my own experience is that changing the engine oil OFTEN, very likely more often than it needs, is MUCH more important than what kind of oil is used, in terms the wear that results during normal operation.

Then why do I use use Mobil 1 in 5W-30 in my Tundra and Sequoia? Because they crank EASILY after cold-soaking at -10 degrees overnight. I've NEVER had that experience with ANY vehicle, including my Tundra, using dino oil. I live where it gets that cold often during the winter.

The worst engine wear happens when the engine starts up, especially in cold weather. I want the best lubrication I can get when that happens. Synthetic oils quite visibly and audibly provide that lubrication MUCH better than dino oils do. If dino oils and synthetic oils at the same viscosity provided the same lubrication when I start my cold engine, then my engine would sound precisely the same when it starts up with either oil. It doesn't. It cranks and starts MUCH better in cold weather with synthetic oil. It provides MUCH better lubrication at precisely the time when I want that better lubrication. So I use it.

Is it overkill? Likely so. But, it is overkill precisely where it provides the most benefit.

So, I won't just keep telling myself that synthetic is better. I have very sound reasons for using it, and quite visible and audible proof that it provides the benefits that I use it to gain.

Why are you trying so hard to convince me otherwise?

[doctormdds]

Because of this group, I started using Mobil1 in my Sequoia at 12,000 miles. I still use it at nearly 70,000 miles and change it with a Toyota oil filter every 5,000 miles. Would I do it again? No way. I don't think it's worth it BUT, I'll continue to do it as long as I own this vehicle since I've used it for so long. While I'm no oil expert and certainly no mechanic, I have come to believe that with regular dino oil and filter changes we would never know the difference between dino and synthetic oil. Toyota engines routinely go over 200,000 miles without problems with only ordinary maintenance. With regular oil and filter changes, synthetic oil is not needed in my opinion. Nor do I feel that a 3,000 mile oil change interval is necessary. For information on oil analysis you can do some great reading at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I'm not tryin to convince anyone,I,m just giving my opinion and feelings regarding way overkill on the use of synthetics over dino oil, just like the responce from DOCTOR DSS below your post.As to vehicle speed mention in my earlier post i was giving you an example of an application of using a synthetic oil over a reg dino oil.Contant and maintained high RPM'S 5k AND VEHICLE speed at 200 mph on nascar curcuits then synthtic would be beneficial.But as for as our driving goes regardless how much you think we may abuse them, an api certified oil that meets manufacturing needs is fine.
Also, way i mentioned aircraft (helicopter) for is because of the on going engineering going on to maintain the highest degree of component air worthyness for our customer, THE GOVERNMENT, O.K. if synthetic oil doesn't show any better wear protection than reg oil then i'm sure the company would have converted over to synthetic. I've worked with some of the top engineers from all over this country regarding component failure.If they say there is no benificial evidence between the two then i trust them.Why would they risk any difference in oil, IF THERE TRULY WAS, then flying an aicraft 10-15k in the air would be taking a risk of killing soldiers and or civilians, right? JUST CHANGE your oil every 4-5k and you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by DJ

So, you believe synthetic oil is no better then dino oil for my vehicle because your employer believes it is no better than dino oil in a helicopter gearbox? Pardon me, but I don't drive a helicopter -- I drive a truck. And, you believe synthetic oil is no better than dino oil in most any engine, based on your observed sample of TWO vehicles?

I'm an engineer. I prefer more sound reasoning and bigger samples than that.

Here's my own sampling of two vehicles:

In 1971, I bought a new 1971 Datsun 510 sedan. It had a 1.6L 4-cylinder engine with a 4-speed manual transmission. Shortly thereafter, my brother bought one like it.

My brother changed his oil at long intervals (at least 10,000 miles plus), and he sometimes changed the oil without changing the filter. He pleaded lack of funds and used the cheapest oil he could buy. Note that the oil had the proper API rating for that time. At about 91,000 miles, he had overhauled the engine FIVE TIMES. It was toast. It had scored cylinder walls, galled main and rod bearings, and finally broke the cam in half due to worn cam bearings. It wasn't sludged up -- it was just worn out.

I changed my oil and filter for the first time at 750 miles and thereafter on a 3,000 mile interval. I used Pennzoil 10W-30 and Datsun OEM filters. I sold it to a friend with 83,000 miles on it -- it never burned any oil between changes, ran like a watch, and the inside of the valve cover was shiny aluminum. My friend drove it to about 145,000 miles, at which point his cigarettes killed him and I lost track of the vehicle -- it still never burned any oil between changes and ran like a watch.

This proves NOTHING except that you can kill ANY engine through lack of maintenance.

In my unhumble opinion, there is no cheaper engine longevity insurance than keeping the engine oil CLEAN, and the most sure-fire way to do that is to change it more often than it needs. So I do. I've NEVER had an oil burner out of my ten vehicles.

The result of my own experience is that changing the engine oil OFTEN, very likely more often than it needs, is MUCH more important than what kind of oil is used, in terms the wear that results during normal operation.

Then why do I use use Mobil 1 in 5W-30 in my Tundra and Sequoia? Because they crank EASILY after cold-soaking at -10 degrees overnight. I've NEVER had that experience with ANY vehicle, including my Tundra, using dino oil. I live where it gets that cold often during the winter.

The worst engine wear happens when the engine starts up, especially in cold weather. I want the best lubrication I can get when that happens. Synthetic oils quite visibly and audibly provide that lubrication MUCH better than dino oils do. If dino oils and synthetic oils at the same viscosity provided the same lubrication when I start my cold engine, then my engine would sound precisely the same when it starts up with either oil. It doesn't. It cranks and starts MUCH better in cold weather with synthetic oil. It provides MUCH better lubrication at precisely the time when I want that better lubrication. So I use it.

Is it overkill? Likely so. But, it is overkill precisely where it provides the most benefit.

So, I won't just keep telling myself that synthetic is better. I have very sound reasons for using it, and quite visible and audible proof that it provides the benefits that I use it to gain.

Why are you trying so hard to convince me otherwise?