What happens if catalytic converter is removed?

[Larry Lawton]

My son needs to remove the catalytic converter from his new car. Now, don't get all excited here, he's not a scofflaw, and understands that (despite rumors to the contrary) it won't help performance.

He's purchased a brand-new 2004 Honda CR-V (Yea, I know, it's not a Tundra, but he can't afford one.) Now, he's transfered to Ghana, in Africa. A small 4X4 with standard transmission is just what he needs, and his employer will haul it over there, free. Besides, he loves the car, his wife loves it, even the kids love it.

One catch: There ain't no unleaded gas in Ghana.

The obvious solution is to remove the catalyic converter, put in a "test pipe" and save the converter to re-install when he returns.

Now, here's the question for all you gear heads: What are the consequences that flow from removing a catalytic converter from a modern, computer controlled engine?

Thanks,

Larry/2001RedLimitedV-8TRD4X4

[mustang67408]

Check engine light
poor performance
poor fuel mileage
poor engine torque
O2 sensor damage
Just for starters.
anyone else care to elaborate more.

[Matador98]

Bad idea. And you shouldn't run leaded gas on a modern unleaded gasoline engine. And the above aforementioned. I would store it and buy something else in Ghana, or sell it and buy something else once in Ghana.

[imjin]

Originally Posted by Matador98

Bad idea. And you shouldn't run leaded gas on a modern unleaded gasoline engine. And the above aforementioned. I would store it and buy something else in Ghana, or sell it and buy something else once in Ghana.

Absolutely! I wouldn't put any type of leaded gas in his Tundra. He'll need a reliable vehicle to outrun those crazy rebels on the Ivory Coast and putting leaded in his unleaded motor ain't gonna help!

Is he going there for a relief effort or something with the U.N.? I wouldn't touch that place with a 10' ICBM. That place is a powder keg since a failed coup attempt in 2001. Have a looksee at what kind of place your friend is heading off too...

[Toasted Coastie]

Dude, a brand new honda in a 3d worl country will make him a TARGET! Not only will they think he is rich but powerful too, and he will get knocked off quick, and his nice new car stolen. A person in that country could live off the black market price for at least 4 years.

[tuesdayd]

My brother, being somewhat of a nomad, has travelled extensively throughout all of Africa. He works, saves a lot of money and then goes to Africa 'til he runs out of money. Each time he's purchased a 4x4 to abuse while he's there and then sells it when he comes home. I agree with most of the others here...don't take a car there that doesn't belong.

[Erik the Red]

Here's the State Department's view on Ghana. There's no way I'd take a late model vehicle into this country, and if I did, the type of gasoline available would be the least of my worries.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/ghana.html

Erik

[Larry Lawton]

Hmmm. I think some of you have confused Ghana with other African nations. Ghana had its last coup in 1981, transitioned to the fourth republic peacefully in 1992, and international observers have noted the elections held every four years since have been reasonably fair and open.

I'd urge you all to review the state department and CIA travel sheets (http://travel.state.gov/travel/ghana.html & http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/gh.html.) Ghana isn't Australia, but safety and the ability to travel freely are about as good as it gets in Africa. (Yeh, I know, that's not sayin' a lot.)

My son's employer pays extra for employees who go to dangerous places or places that are considered a hardship. Although he'll receive some hardship pay, no danger pay is paid for Ghana. (Unlike the Cote d'Iroire and most surrounding contries.) My daughter-in-law and my two grandchildren will accompany him, which is not always the case.

I wouldn't bring this up, but folks here are so off-base about Ghana that I'm wondering about the validity of your advise on using leaded gas. Thus, may I most respectfully issue a CFR (Call For References) on your dire predictions for my son's car. I've taken catalytic converters off before, but usually only on a temporary basis, just to save a few bucks on what the dealer charges for the brand-name converter. Admitedly, I haven't burned leaded gas, but am old enough to remember when we made the transition. The big worry then was how hard the unleaded stuff was on valves. Conventional wisdom was that spark plugs would last for 80,000 miles, but without he lubricating effect of the lead in the fuel, the valves wouldn't last very long.

The other stuff complained of (poor mileage, poor performance, O2 sensor damage, etc.) are what I'd expect if one clogged the converter with leaded fuel, not if one removed the converter.

Larry/DoubtingThomasNow

[Matador98]

Ghana politics aside....I would recommend the same thing. Buy an older 4x4 once there and sell it when he moves back. You just can not run leaded fuel on an unleaded with success (well, you can....let me know how many miles the engine lasts). And some of the other members are right about sensors going bad and terrible fuel mileage. Unfortunately, this isn't the 1965-69 muscle car era....there are sensors in the cat that are fed back to the ECU, and the ECU then adjusts whatever it needs to adjust to get optimum performance. Take it out, and you just opened up a piece of the loop and the ECU will have trouble distinguishing forward from backward. Now, I'm an engineer, and feel this is sensible enough I don't need references, no offense. I wouldn't even try leaded gas. That, and it will surely void his warranty instantly.

[imjin]

A lot of the racing gas is leaded for the octane boost so you could use some of their statistics if you'd like. They talk about deposit buildup in the O2 sensors and valve to valve-seat issues. It comes down to what he's willing to risk. Valves are more hardened now than they used to be, so on that front, it may not be that big of a deal. Personally, I've never done it so I'm only going on references from others.

[mustang67408]

Originally Posted by Larry Lawton

I'm wondering about the validity of your advise on using leaded gas.

I dont know about anyone else, but I am offended by your statement. I am a professional. I feel this is sensible advise from all. I don't need references, no offense. But here is our GOV on the issue.

Originally Posted by Larry Lawton

The other stuff complained of (poor mileage, poor performance, O2 sensor damage, etc.) are what I'd expect if one clogged the converter with leaded fuel, not if one removed the converter.

Larry/DoubtingThomasNow

The engine you are messing with was designed to run on UNLEADED FUEL ONLY! It needs the back pressure from the cat convrter assy to run properly. It was designed this way.This lack of back pressure will cause a loss of low end engine torque, poor performance. The lead will build up on the valve and seat and cause probles also.
The O2 sensors in the exhaust are not designed to handle the leaded fuel or its by-products. The lack of input from the secondary O2 sensor will throw your vehicle into OPEN LOOP , hense the POOR MILEAGE.
Many people here are PROFESSIONALS in the AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY. They do know what they are talking about. Apparantly you are not as informed as them.
I am no politician and dont give a RATS A@S! about AFRICA or any other country except AMERICA. The issue here is LEADED FUEL OR NOT.
Leaded fuel will hurt your engine LIKE IT OR NOT!

GOV STATS
GOV STATS:/ Common Sense

Vehicle performance can also be affected by the use of the wrong converter and, in some
severe cases, converter or engine overheating could occur, resulting in unsafe operation and possibly
engine damage.
Because of the effects of backpressure and heat created during operation and the effectiveness
and compatibility of some emission systems with certain converters, it is important to make sure
that the converter installed is the proper one for a customer's car or truck.
An original equipment converter is designed as an integral part of the vehicle's emission and
engine system to achieve the lowest possible emissions and optimal performance.

[lelandstanford]

Doesn't Toyota offer carburetor version of Land Cruiser in certain 3rd world regions. I am not sure if the engine will take leaded fuel.

[mustang67408]

Originally Posted by Matador98

Bad idea. And you shouldn't run leaded gas on a modern unleaded gasoline engine. And the above aforementioned. I would store it and buy something else in Ghana, or sell it and buy something else once in Ghana.

This is the best Idea Yet!

[Sanosuke]

Voiding the warrantry on the engine by running Leaded Gas in a unleaded gas engine is a certainity (remember, the car is outside the country it is from if it goes to Africa). And the high cost of getting the parts for that Honda CR-V from the proper source, would make your son think twice about importing his car to Africa. Think about it please, Larry Lawton and have your son just buy a 4WD type vehicle in Africa, he'll be glad that he won't have a hole in his pockets to burn once his vehicle gives out with leaded gas in it.

Sanosuke!

[Larry Lawton]

Thank you all for still replying, even when I question your advice. Believe me, no offense was intended!

'Stang, there's nothing in your first post that tells me your an engineer. That certainly adds credibility to your view. That is exactly the sort of information I was asking for when I issued my "CFR". However, mere recitation of credentials does not necessarily carry the day. I have been a member of my profession for well over three decades, and have taught high level seminars on my specialty. Would you therefore accept my opinion, even in my area of expertise? I certainly hope not! You would rightly ask that I support that opinion with facts. Your citation to what might happen if one uses the wrong converter is not perfectly on point, but is exactly the sort of facts I seek!

I am intrigued by the idea that race car engines use lead as octane boosters, but that's hardly convincing either, for a couple of reasons. First, I doubt they expect the race engine to last a couple of hundred thousand miles. Second, racing power plants frequently have but a nodding acquaintance with production engines.

Voiding the warranty is not an issue, because my son's work outside the US will undoubtedly last longer than the warranty on the Honda.

Now, I have probably unintentionally insulted all of you. Let me apologize again – and thank you for your past and future contributions to my education. I will listen carefully to what you all have to say, and relay your thoughts to my son.

Larry/WyomingCowboyInSanFrancisco