Views On Headers....

GameMaster011 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-05-2005, 12:47 PM

What are your views on headers?
Such as, Are they worth the price? What brand do you think is best? What kind of sound difference does it make to your exhaust?

Any replies are appreciated..

DevinSixtySeven · #2 (**permalink**) 02-05-2005, 01:16 PM

they are worth the price if you have a need for them, for instance to turn a larger tire or haul a heavy load through the mountains.

jba is probably your best bet in terms of quality and performance.

-sean

GameMaster011 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-05-2005, 02:29 PM

Ok, I really dont have a "need" for them, but I just think I would like to have them on their. I have only been looking at 2 and that JBA and TRD (Unless anyone tells me about another brand that might be worth looking at.). They are going on a 2004 Access Cab Tundra 4x4. So thats 1 for JBA. Thanks for the reply.

Edit: What about sound difference. What kind of sound difference does it make? Deeper Lower tone... Just the same tone but a little louder? I'm guessing it depends on maybe which brand you go with?

dezert_rida · #4 (**permalink**) 02-05-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameMaster011

What are your views on headers?
Such as, Are they worth the price? What brand do you think is best? What kind of sound difference does it make to your exhaust?

Any replies are appreciated..

I dont know what state you live in, so ill just tell you the pros and cons of the different ones ive installed.

JBA is a a quality shorty header that is a direct fit, meaning it bolts up to your factory y pipe with zero cutting or welding. Its 50 state legal to 04. Only thing I have bad to say about them is the position of the O2 bung on the PS header points it straight towards the tranny, and they are Medium priced.

Downeys are a quality mid length header, meaning the primaries are longer, therby developing more low end torque. They are 50 state legal till 02. You have to cut the necks off the front of the cats and fabricate new head pipes to go from the headers to the cats. The ones they supply are a joke.

TRDs are similar to Downeys design as far as primaries, and fabricating the head pipes. This set of expensive low quality headers is appaling. They use cast flanges. Sure their stainless and coated, but cast flanges???? What genius thought that up? I believe they are 50 state legal till 02 as well.

Ive installed all of those on customers trucks. One of the JBA customers reported that he regained all the torque he lost by goin to 33s and then some!

So which will I install on my own Tundra when the time comes??? I like the JBAs because its easily reversible and smog legal. I like the Downeys because they are a mid length header,cheaper but they are not smog legal. The only reason smog is an issue is that ill have to swap the manifolds back on in 2009 for smog, but its not that big of a deal.

Its not gonna make a huge difference in sound. You may get a little volume due to the larger primaries. It may sound a little more tuned as well.

KLS · #5 (**permalink**) 02-05-2005, 06:38 PM

S&S makes the best headers...35" primary tubes. The cost about $900 including new cats. They are not C.A.R.B. approved. I have a set and feel that they are the best power option I could have added. They really add to the mid & top end power. The exhaust resonator needs to be removed, so these do increase the noise level slightly. http://www.ssheaders.com/

SSAutochrome are the cheapest headers and really not bad for the bucks. Check ebay.

Ken

Dude Boy · #6 (**permalink**) 02-06-2005, 01:55 PM

After 5 years of reading TS posts, and nearly all of those relating to headers, I would say that JBA's are the best overall for this application when you weigh quality, price, installation, and performance.

TruckGuy · #7 (**permalink**) 02-06-2005, 03:46 PM

How much more horse power with headers, and how diffacult is the install on the JBA's.

Can someone like me, who doesnt own a "full" set of tools... accomplish in a day? or should I just pay someone, and how much?

KLS · #8 (**permalink**) 02-06-2005, 09:54 PM

If you're willing to tackle a moderately tough and really dirty job, and buy several 14mm wrenches of different sizes & shapes, you can do it. Get some really good penetraing oil like B'laster PB. (Anybody...what is the size of the socket for the ends of the studs...E10???)

The added hp isn't a big deal, 'cuz it is always advertised at peak rpms. What really makes the difference in the power gain beginning at about 3000 rpm. My S&S headers really push me back into the seat cushion beginning about then. For a California truck, JBA is probably the best way to go.

Ken

RockyMtnRay · #9 (**permalink**) 02-06-2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruckGuy

How much more horse power with headers, and how diffacult is the install on the JBA's.

Can someone like me, who doesnt own a "full" set of tools... accomplish in a day? or should I just pay someone, and how much?

Horsepower sells trucks, torque moves them. Horsepower is measured at close to redline RPM and I don't think I got much, if any horsepower increase from my JBA headers. Which is no big deal since HP is a pretty useless number for most truck purposes.

However, I did get a big (about 25 ft-lb) increase in maximum torque from the JBA headers and, as Ken (KLS) mentioned for the S&S headers, this happened in the 2600 to 3000 RPM range...right where it makes a big difference in typical acceleration (or towing) situations.

As for install, I had neither the tools nor the slightest interest in spending hours under my truck scraping the skin off my hands and getting all grungy. My dealer had done multiple TRD header installs so was experienced with headers and perfectly happy to install my JBAs. Dropped it off at 9 am and got it back at 3 pm and the charge was only $425. I might have gotten it done cheaper at some muffler shop but probably wouldn't have had a Toyota trained Master Technician doing the job either. I felt the $425 was an excellent value for a high quality installation job. And as a self-employed software devleoper, I was able to get in 6 billable hours of work so I actually came out ahead financially by having the dealer do the installation.

RoundOut · #10 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 09:25 AM

My dealer told me that I would void my warranty by not letting them do it. Then they told me that a R & R of stock exhaust manifolds was 10 hours so they wanted $700 to do it. My reaction was, "Do the letters F and O mean anything to you?" JBA says it is a 4-6 hour job, but the service guy was adamant.

I found a performance shop that did it for $350. One thing to be aware of, though: The O2 sensors will not always be removable from the stock manifolds. This cost me an extra $100 to get a new 02 sensor.

After talking to the "make-ready" guys at my dealership for a trim fix, they said they would have done the headers for $350. Interesting that the make-ready shop competes with the service department, isn't it?

Another dealer in town that is TS friendly, said they would have done it for $350, too. Wish I had known that.

Moral of the story, check with your TS friendly dealer if there is more than one dealer in your town, then check with the local muffler/performance shops.

dezert_rida · #11 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundOut

My dealer told me that I would void my warranty by not letting them do it. Then they told me that a R & R of stock exhaust manifolds was 10 hours so they wanted $700 to do it. My reaction was, "Do the letters F and O mean anything to you?" JBA says it is a 4-6 hour job, but the service guy was adamant.
.

10 hrs to R\R the manifolds?!?!?!?!?! I can have both manifolds off the truck in 45 min.

To the guy that asked about the stud socket, yes its an E10.

To the guy that asked if the JBA header job is a DIYer. Yes it is, as their is zero fabrication required.

$250-300 is a fair price to have JBAs installed.

KLS · #12 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

I can have both manifolds off the truck in 45 min.

I'm not saying you can't, just that I'd like to see it. I've spent more time than that just arguing with the rusty studs on the flange between the manifold and the cat. I remove the front wheels and work through the wheel wells. It was easier for me than working from the top.

Don't believe any BS from a service writer about voiding any warranty. If you make any changes you are responsible for those changes and any damage they cause. If your do-it-yourself header gasket leaks, sure, that isn't a warranty item. If your engine has an internal problem it will be up to Toyota to prove that the header cause the problem, which is impossible 'cuz the headers won't cause those problems. (Buy Toyota exhaust manifold gaskets...don't use what comes with any headers.)

Ken

dezert_rida · #13 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLS

I'm not saying you can't, just that I'd like to see it. I've spent more time than that just arguing with the rusty studs on the flange between the manifold and the cat. I remove the front wheels and work through the wheel wells. It was easier for me than working from the top.

(Buy Toyota exhaust manifold gaskets...don't use what comes with any headers.)

Ken

I should have clarified that my installs are done in a shop on a rack with the tires on. I use air tools, and also work through the fenderwells. All I can say is swivel sockets,extensions and 3\8" guns are my friends. I can get a swivel socket and the gun on EVERY fastner when removing manifolds. When installing headers, obviously some of the top nuts need to be tightened with a wrench.

JBA and Downey gaskets have worked without incident for me. Most header leaks are caused by the header being warped, improper tightening sequence or lack of torque. Machining the header flat, tightening evenly and correctly will ensure a proper seal.