Question About Oil Viscosity

03SilverSky · #1 (**permalink**) 02-06-2005, 07:15 PM

My owners manual calles for 5W 30 motor oil. I have had all my oil changes done by my dealer (4 now). My first one was at 1,000 miles. They used 10 W 30 at that interval. I questioned the dealer stating the manual calls for 5W 30. I am told by the climate of our area, 10W 30 is better. They use 10W 30 for oil change number 2 and 3.

Well I had them change my oil a couple of days ago and they used 5W 30. What gives? I think they use whatever oil was the cheapest that month.

Haoleb · #2 (**permalink**) 02-06-2005, 09:23 PM

The last time i had my oil changed at the dealer they used 15W40

At least what your dealer uses is whats actually reccomended.

KLS · #3 (**permalink**) 02-06-2005, 09:43 PM

I'd agree with 10W-30 in your climate. If you run the truck really hard and hot in the summer, I'd use 5W-40 or 15W-40 even though it isn't listed.

Ken

akauth · #4 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03SilverSky

My owners manual calles for 5W 30 motor oil. I have had all my oil changes done by my dealer (4 now). My first one was at 1,000 miles. They used 10 W 30 at that interval. I questioned the dealer stating the manual calls for 5W 30. I am told by the climate of our area, 10W 30 is better. They use 10W 30 for oil change number 2 and 3.

Well I had them change my oil a couple of days ago and they used 5W 30. What gives? I think they use whatever oil was the cheapest that month.

Toyota has been bugging some of the dealers here in California about sticking to 5w30 oil for EPA reasons. At least they were a while back. 10w30 is certainly a better choice and is suitable for anywhere in california - including areas where they get winter. It doesn't really get cold enough to need 5w oil. 5 degrees anywhere here is quite cold and only happens a couple times a year.

If you run synthetic, then 5w30 is fine, but I wouldn't do that with dino oil unless you were in really cold weather and needed it.

Alan

DJ · #5 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 09:57 AM

Let's expand the subject a bit more, 'cause I'm confused about something.

I was in Wal Mart yesterday and happened to look at oil. Mobil I, in 5W-30, comes in a number of different flavors. All were labeled "SuperSyn Technology", but:

one was "blank"
one was labeled "newer vehicle formula"
one was labeled "multiple vehicle formula"
one was labeled "truck and SUV"

OK, what are the differences between them, and, given that I use Mobil I in 5W-30, why should I pick one flavor over any other?

TundrastruckDave · #6 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 10:27 AM

Hey DJ,

Wonder if the oil manufacturers use that "cunning" little tid-bit of info, to PRICE the oil differently? (i.e. Oh... if you drive a truck or an SUV, you'll definately need that "formula" over "multiple vehicle formula, etc."). That said, just wondering, if any of the Mobil 1 is PRICED differently?

Dave

DJ · #7 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TundrastruckDave

Hey DJ,

Wonder if the oil manufacturers use that "cunning" little tid-bit of info, to PRICE the oil differently? (i.e. Oh... if you drive a truck or an SUV, you'll definately need that "formula" over "multiple vehicle formula, etc."). That said, just wondering, if any of the Mobil 1 is PRICED differently?

Dave

All variations had the same price, which makes it even harder to choose.

For example, my 2000 Tundra has 65,xxx miles on it. Should I choose ...

... the "blank" version because I can't decide otherwise?
... the "newer vehicle formula" because, at 65,xxx miles, it's practically new?
... the "multiple vehicle formula" because I also have an '01 Sequoia?
... the "truck and SUV" because it's a truck, and my Sequoia has an identical engine?

What on earth is a "multiple vehicle formula", anyway? Any particular quart of oil I buy will go in ONE vehicle.

KLS · #8 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

OK, what are the differences between them, and, given that I use Mobil I in 5W-30, why should I pick one flavor over any other?

It is 98% marketing. By segmenting the market for engine oil and offering a product for each segment they can get higher prices for very similar products.

The "blank" version is all any of us usually need.
The "newer vehicle," "multi-vehicle," and "truck & SUV," are all marketing hype. Oil for "higher mileage vehicles" is slightly higher viscosity within the SAE viscosity grade range and may contain some esters for seal conditioning, the former to reduce oil burning and the latter to reduce oil leakage. Mobil 1 5W-40 "Truck & SUV" oil is a different product, very closely related to their diesel Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40.

Engine oil is about 80% pure base oil and about 20% additive package. The prices of the various qualities of base oil are very similar except for the PAO synthetic base oil used by Mobil, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Schaeffer, and a few others. These are prices per gallon. Group I is the least refined and not used much in modern motor oil. Group II and II+ are most widely used. Group III is petroleum with the legal right to be called "full synthetic"...Castrol Syntec, Valvoline, Shell, Pennz, etc. "full synthetic" all use Group III.
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_artic...lVk3P,b19p9DCt

The different additive packages are increasing in price, but generally if better quality base oil is used, less and lower cost add packs are needed. The best quality engine oil does use better & higher cost add packs.
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_artic...lVk3P,b19p9DCt

Ken

DJ · #9 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLS

It is 98% marketing. By segmenting the market for engine oil and offering a product for each segment they can get higher prices for very similar products.

The "blank" version is all any of us usually need.

[...]

That's what I suspected.

I just changed the oil in both vehicles. My wife picked up the oil for me at Wal Mart. For each vehicle, a five quart-jug was "blank" and two one-quart jugs were the "newer vehicle" formula. So, I started thinkin' ...

03SilverSky · #10 (**permalink**) 02-07-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akauth

Toyota has been bugging some of the dealers here in California about sticking to 5w30 oil for EPA reasons.

I talked to the service department at the dealership today. I inquired as to why they used 5W 30 after convincing me I needed 10W 30 two years ago.

He got my number and said he would investigate and get back to me. When he called back he told me 10W 30 was better for the older cars they serviced and 5W 30 was better for the newer models. He said they did an audit and due to the volume of newer cars v. older models they switched to 5W 30.

mitchr · #11 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ

Let's expand the subject a bit more, 'cause I'm confused about something.

I was in Wal Mart yesterday and happened to look at oil. Mobil I, in 5W-30, comes in a number of different flavors. All were labeled "SuperSyn Technology", but:

one was "blank"
one was labeled "newer vehicle formula"
one was labeled "multiple vehicle formula"
one was labeled "truck and SUV"

OK, what are the differences between them, and, given that I use Mobil I in 5W-30, why should I pick one flavor over any other?

I was just at Walmart buying some Mobil1 10w30 synthetic(mutiple vehicle formula) when I notice all of the different labeling that is discussed here then I noticed a new one that I had never seen before. It is Mobil 1 Extended Performance. The new oil was $23+ per 5 qt and the one I got was 19+ per 5qt. It claims a guranteeded 15,000 mile oil change interval! Here is a quote from their website:

What is the difference between Mobil 1® Extended Performance and the currently available Mobil 1?

Mobil 1 Extended Performance formulas are designed specifically for today's longer service intervals and are guaranteed to protect for up to 15,000 miles or one year.

Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a unique formulation with boosted level of protection and performance. These formulations with the Advanced SuperSyn System contain 50 percent more SuperSyn, 36 percent more anti-wear additives, and 37 percent more cleaning agents than the current Mobil 1.

THarms · #12 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchr

Mobil 1 Extended Performance formulas are designed specifically for today's longer service intervals and are guaranteed to protect for up to 15,000 miles or one year.

Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a unique formulation with boosted level of protection and performance. These formulations with the Advanced SuperSyn System contain 50 percent more SuperSyn, 36 percent more anti-wear additives, and 37 percent more cleaning agents than the current Mobil 1. [/i]

It sounds like Mobil1 has found a way to keep higher levels of additives dissolved in the oil to now nearly match (and possibly exceed?) the levels that Amsoil puts in theirs. One of the biggest problems synthetic formulators have with PAO synthetic oils, is these oils have much lower solvency than regular oils and thus are not able to "load up" the oil with as much additives as they would like.

I would be interested if anyone has run a comparative oil analysis on this extended performance Mobil1 vs. the "normal" Mobil1.

AV8R · #13 (**permalink**) 02-10-2005, 01:14 AM

I'm about to do my first oil change with the new truck and I'm going with the Extended Performance Mobile 1 & the OEM filter. I will let everyone know if I notice any difference in mileage etc... I doubt I will but will post anyway. If I can find the link I will get the oil tested when I change it. Does anyone know if the OEM filter for the 2000 Tundra is the same part number/filter for the 2005 DC? I have about 9 filters left over for my old Truck.

Back to the 5W-30 vs. 10W-30 question, my understanding of the difference between the 5W and 10W is that this is the viscosity of the oil when cold and that the oil will be 30 weight when up to operating temp. That being said the 5W is better for the cold start ups and will flow faster. I don't think it makes much difference if you’re in a temperate climate. When in doubt follow the owners manual.

KLS · #14 (**permalink**) 02-10-2005, 12:34 PM

AV8R,
May I suggest that you use conventional oil for the next one or two oil changes, and that you change at rather short mileage. Any wear particles from the break in of your engine will be flushed out better. You can then use the extended drain Mobil 1 and perhaps have less initial wear in the engine.

True, in testing 5W-30 and 10W-30 have about the same viscosity when hot...9.3 to 12.49 centistokes kinematic viscosity at 100°C. The 10W-30 will have higher viscosity at intermediate temperatures. 10W-30 also may have a lower content of polymer viscosity index improvers. These may shear (be cut or broken) in service and result in a lower hot viscosity the hot oil. Fewer VIIs are better.

Ken