Strange noise-whiring-buzzing-under cam cover

[charlie]

Help,my 3 week old V8 Tundra just made a very odd noise.This is what happened
I went to the dealership to get a new key(the old one wasn't working consistently).A mechanic programed the new keys and left.When I started it(the new key was rather stiff)a strange high pitched whirring-buzzing noise started.It seemed to the service manager to be coming from "under this".I said the cam cover,he said"that isn't the cam cover"It is a deep pie plate shaped plastic cover ,there is one in the front of both heads.He finally allowed as the "black thing" might be the cam cover.
My hearing isn't very good at localizing sounds,so I really couldn't pin it to the cam cover.
They want me to bring it in Monday,and we will look at it.I don't have a lot of faith in them(this guy didn't impress me,well he did impress me,but not favorably).
Finding a strange noise,that came only once,will be very hard,if it isn't something obvious.Could the cam belt,pulley,or tensioner cause such a noise,then just disappear.
The key change is probably a coincidence,but could the horn have some how gotten just a tiny bit of juice(hence the buzzing).The alarm system seems to be integrally hooked up to the horn.Could the poor fitting key have sent a "poor" message to something?I am fairly mechanically adept(lot of motorcycles),so I don't really think it is related to the key,but I also don't want to immediately write off the fact that it happened immediately after we used a new,and poor fitting,key??Help,any ideas?Finding the cause of a sound that is still present can be hard.Finding the cause if an intermittent niose is very hard.Finding the cause of a one time noise will be nearly impossible-until it returns when whatever caused the noise fails completely.Help?!Thanks,Charlie New Orleans 2001 Tundra 1100 miles,3 weeks old!Bought new with 500 miles on it.

[twowheeler]

I don't have the factory alarm in my '02, but it came standard with the keyless entry. I'm pretty sure my keys don't have a chip or anything in them cause I had a key made at Home Depot using a regular key blank and it worked fine.

Yeah, doesn't sound like its related to the key thing. I just checked out my engine and the black covers look to be the cam belt covers, IMO but I'm not sure. I'd have them take off that cover to inspect the condition of whatever is in there, in my presence.

Good luck and post what you find out.

[charlie]

Twowheeler,I think I found the answer.Actually a mechanic,very good mechanic, buddy of mine found the answer.I gave him the blow by blow description,and he said the stiff key probably didn't fully release the starter.It would have been so subtile I wouldn't have noticed it.I duplicated it by holding it on for a few seconds,sure sounds like it.I will have my wife do it tomorrow,so I can listen closely with the hood up.I am about 99.99% sure this is it.It happened just when I used the "stiff" key,and hasn't happened since.I can't think of any very loud,very odd noise that would disappear without taking some very expensive motor parts with it.Thanks,Charlie

[twowheeler]

Good luck on that Charlie, don't fry your starter gear while your at it!

[charlie]

Twowheeler,when my wife wakes up I will "test' it.I am pretty sure that is it.You are right about the starter getting fried,it must have gotten 5 years worth of wear yesterday.When I dragged the service manager over to listen,he had me pop the hood ,and rev it up to 3500+ several times to localize the sound.The poor starter must have been turning 5-10 times engine speed,maybe 20 times,I really don't know what the gear ratio is startergear vs flywheel.Heck,it might have been spinning like a turbo 50,000-100,00 rpms.I am fairly sure the bearing are designed to take 1/2 second of 500 engine RPMS, which might be 5000-10,000 rpms starter RPMS.I know it wasn't designed to take a minute of revving to 3,500 rpms(35000-70000 starter RPMS).I will try to talk them into a new starter,but I am sure I will I will get something like"don't worry about it,if it breaks it will be under warrantee"
Thanks,I will let you know how it turned out.Looks like I found another way to "break" a car!Charlie New Orleans 2001 Tundra Limited 4x2 TRD offroad pk etc
PS Looks like I sold my 98 Tacoma EXT(26000 miles) for $9500.The dealer was only offering $7500 on the trade,so I decided to sell it myself.With the sales tax savings and the ads, and a rear lense,anything I get over $8280 is more than the $7500 I was offered on trade.

[twowheeler]

Originally posted by charlie
Heck,it might have been spinning like a turbo 50,000-100,00 rpms.I am fairly sure the bearing are designed to take 1/2 second of 500 engine RPMS, which might be 5000-10,000 rpms starter RPMS.I know it wasn't designed to take a minute of revving to 3,500 rpms(35000-70000 starter RPMS).

LOL, Charlie. Not that I'm laughing at your misfortune, though. Anyhow, you might also want to check the wiring to/from the starter to see if the wires got too hot (i.e. melted the insulation). Should be fine though, since I think the starter was not the one providing the cranking load, so the wires shouldn't have gotten that hot during the extended starter engagement.

[charlie]

Well,for better or worse,that was what was making the noise.I tried to find where the starter is,just to get some idea how hard it would be to replace.I can't even find the starter!Thanks,Charlie

[Tundra 5150]

Originally posted by charlie
Well,for better or worse,that was what was making the noise.I tried to find where the starter is,just to get some idea how hard it would be to replace.I can't even find the starter!Thanks,Charlie

The starter is located at the top of the engine. In the center of the "V" under the intake manifold plenum.

[charlie]

Tundra 5150 thanks for the starter location.I haven't had a V-8 since 1978(1971 Cuda 383),and the starter was on the underside of the motor near the flywheel.Is that location,under the intake plenum,a common location for a starter now?I would have looked till the end of time,and not found it.I did see a wire going in that general direction,but when it didn't head down and back,I ignored it.Thanks,Charlie

[Tundra 5150]

Yeah, I still tinker with the old V-8's - Mopar 318, 340, 360, 383 & 440. Chev. 350, 383(350w/400crank) & 454. Even dabble in the old slant 6's and Buick series 3800.
I think the location is just common to Toyota's. At first I thought that it was a bizarre location. Thinking about it, this location gets it away from the hot exhaust manifold, and is electrically adventageous for off roading. It is away from water, mud, road grime and whatever you may encounter from day to day driving.
Modern reduction gear starters provide long service life so they don't need to be replaced as often-except possibly in your aforementioned situation. Still, it doesn't seem overly difficult when the time comes. It appears that you only have to remove the upper part of the plenum to gain access to it. I'm simply assuming all of this from studying the way the unit is assembled so this isn't gospel.

[charlie]

You are right,the location does make sense,and it looks easy to get to.My old 383 starter wasn't too hard to get to,but you do have to crawl under there,and there isn't a hell of a lot of room.It does look like the replacement would be fairly easy(as these thing go now,which is usually not easy at all).
The old 225 slant 6?Wow,I haven't even seem it referred to in 10 years.I always wanted a 440 in a Cuda or a Challenger.Loved that Cuda-fake gill slits and all.I was very impressed with the hood pins.I figured it must be very fast,if it needed the extra pins to keep the hood down.Really increased the "cool" factor!
I also had a 318 1973 or so Cuda,but it was a dog.Had a 318 Duster also.We even had a 1965 Fury III station wagon.It would show 111mph at WOT with a 318.Guess it was an honest 105 mph.We put 150,000 mainly trouble free miles on it,pretty good for a 60's family car that also had 2 teenage boys driving(and dogging) it.Thanks,Charlie New Orleans