Muffler time

[2000LtdKen]

Hey guys, especially that RockyMtnRay guy,

I just bought a set of the JBA Headers thru the group buy and since I'm in the process I thought I would add a new muffler. Can you guys give me a few choices in mufflers to look at and rate them? I am interested in:

More torque for towing
A little louder that stock but not too loud
No drone
Works with the JBA's I just bought
Where to purchase and install. (I live near San Diego)

Thanks,

Ken

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by 2000LtdKen

Hey guys, especially that RockyMtnRay guy,

I just bought a set of the JBA Headers thru the group buy and since I'm in the process I thought I would add a new muffler. Can you guys give me a few choices in mufflers to look at and rate them? I am interested in:

More torque for towing
A little louder that stock but not too loud
No drone
Works with the JBA's I just bought
Where to purchase and install. (I live near San Diego)

Thanks,

Ken

Well, since you asked...and you're looking for towing torque, then I would definitely recommend a Gibson muffler. But frankly, I would also recommend that you not immediately change the muffler. Rather, let your truck fully adjust to the headers (will take around 500 miles) and then decide if you want to muck with the exhaust. By separating these two mods, you'll be able to more clearly distinguish between the changes produced by the headers and the changes from the exhaust.

The "universal" Gibson muffler I bought is SKU 788500S in stainless (drop the S from the end for aluminized). Recommend the stainless for a bit heavier gauge metal that won't rust out and is less likely to have drone. Dimensions are 2.5'' X 2.5'' offset inlet/outlet, 6'' diameter, 24'' body, 30'' overall length (it's a bit smaller in diameter, but actually a tad bit longer than the stock muffler). I ordered it online from one of the links off of Gibson's website. You should also be able to get it (probably as a special order) from a local speedshop. Expect to pay around $150 after shipping...it's not cheapie muffler.

Performance wise it made a big difference...at least half as much gain in the low to mid RPMs as the headers provided. I really notice the difference when towing...with headers but before muffler, I would semi-frequently get downshifts to 2nd on moderate (~5% grades). After the muffler was added to the headers those downshifts pretty much went away. Furthermore, the Gibson seemed to work with the headers to lower the torque curve peak from 3400 to about 3200 RPM and the onset of torque increase was dropped from 2800 to 2600 RPM. Not much if any change in torque over about 4500 RPM though.

As for sound...not quite sure what you mean by "A little louder that stock but not too loud". The Gibson muffler is a bit louder than stock...under some conditions...but don't be expecting the normal "performance muffler" sound (like you would get from Flowmaster, Magnaflow, Dynaflow, Spintech, etc.). This is a muffler that definitely does NOT have the usual "V8 sound". As I've explained to others, it does have a quiet rumble under about 1100 RPM (with light throttle) and there's a low growl (about as loud as the rear tire noise) from about 1100 to 2100 RPM. Over 2100 RPM...or at high levels of throttle, the sound at the exhaust tip is basically a harsh whoosh...not the strangled, whistling whoosh of the stock muffler but not a "V8 sound" either...and inside the cab the muffler is near silent over 2100 RPM or at high throttle openings.

These sound qualities make this Gibson a great muffler for serious towing (trailers over 4000 lbs, especially on mountain roads)...I'm usually operating the truck in a manner where the muffler is basically silent. Hence I can literally tow for hours through the mountains without developing the fatigue and headache that comes from sustained high noise levels. You may have noticed that the other towing guru here...member KLS...is also now using a Gibson exhaust. In a PM to me he wrote "The Gibson system is remarkably quiet for the performance.".

If you want a more traditional sounding "performance muffler"...one that's fairly quiet but does get louder the harder you press the gas pedal, I'd suggest Dynomax. But keep in mind that that increased sound with increased throttle could get really fatiguing after an hour of so of towing across mountain grades.

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by 2000LtdKen

Hey guys, especially that RockyMtnRay guy,

I just bought a set of the JBA Headers thru the group buy and since I'm in the process I thought I would add a new muffler. Can you guys give me a few choices in mufflers to look at and rate them? I am interested in:

More torque for towing
A little louder that stock but not too loud
No drone
Works with the JBA's I just bought
Where to purchase and install. (I live near San Diego)

Thanks,

Ken

Hey Ken,

I can cover everything on your list except the drone w/the Spintech Sportsman Street muffler.... SPINTECH

Purrs at idle and soft acceleration BUT growls when you open it up 'round 3000rpms(Spintech Radio, Baby...!! )
There is a slight cabin drone around 60-70mph. My radio and open sun roof cover it up nicely...
Works well with my JBA Ti coated headers...
ST is in Riverside and can install it for you around $100-120.00...

The next quietest muffler is their Sportsman Street XL muffler. (As seen on V8Toilet's sig page for improving tq....... )
The guys that have that model will have to say if they experience the drone.....

Check my pix to see how it looks.... JB

[Invid]

I have the Sportsman Street 3332XL muffler and it drones between 1800-2200 RPM. The drone is slight though and I don't really notice anymore except when I mash the gas pedal down but that's a given

[flyin6]

I have had great luck using a single big block series flowmaster, single in with dual outlets. Great mellow tone, gets louder when you open it up and seems bulletproof. I've had mine on since 01.

[2000LtdKen]

I talked to one of my local muffler shops and they told me that Magnaflow is about the same loudness as a Gibson. Does anyone know if this is true? I was looking for a more mello sound.

Thanks,

Ken

[Jack Burton]

Originally Posted by 2000LtdKen

I talked to one of my local muffler shops and they told me that Magnaflow is about the same loudness as a Gibson. Does anyone know if this is true? I was looking for a more mello sound.

Thanks,

Ken

Find a shop that will let you hear both if it's possible... I'm on my second make of muffler and pretty much sure I'll stick w/it but who knows...
You'll be doing yourself a favor by hearing the top 2 picks because it gets expensive if you don't end up liking your 1st choice.

I think the sound matters most since I don't tow. How often will you hear the muffler towing vs. day to day driving....?
If the tq (Gibson) is what you're after then does it matter what it sounds like...?

I have to add that when I was first looking around for mufflers, a couple of shops recommended the Gibson muffler for more tq. for towing.....

JB

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by 2000LtdKen

I talked to one of my local muffler shops and they told me that Magnaflow is about the same loudness as a Gibson. Does anyone know if this is true? I was looking for a more mello sound.

Thanks,

Ken

Both Gibson and Magnaflow (at least the biggest ones) could be considered "quiet" mufflers. They have completely different internal construction and that causes a huge difference in how their sounds change when you use a lot of throttle (as you will regularly and for extended periods when towing).

Specfically, the Magnaflow is a glasspack style muffler...like any glasspack muffler, if you open the throttle and run the engine at high power, it will get louder...a lot louder. Exactly what folks (like Jack) who want a performance muffler to sound like. The classic "V8 Sound"...civilized perhaps and relatively mellow but definitely a rumble/roar that gets louder as you step on the throttle. This is great if you don't tow...you'll use high throttle openings for a few seconds while accelerating and get to listen to the rumble. Then you reach cruise, the throttle is almost closed and the muffler settles down to a very quiet rumble so your ears/nerves don't get shot. But if you're towing, the throttle probably never will get very closed...especially when towing across the mountains...so the rumble and roar never go away.

By contrast the Gibson has a strange construction...there are two pipes inside the muffler...one connected to the inlet; one connected to the outlet. These pipes both run parallel for the length of the muffler but are not connected to each other. Each pipe has been perforated...but not with simple holes, rather the perforations look just like the perforations on a cheese grater. On the inlet tube, the perforations are punched inward and toward the inlet (to sorta scrape off the gas as it comes down the pipe); on the outlet the perforations are punched the other way (to collect it from the muffler interior) . As the exhaust gasses enter the muffler, they have the entire length of the inlet tube to escape into the muffler body and then exit out the entire length of the outlet tube. With so much crossover area, there's almost no resistance to the flow of the gasses; hence the muffler produces very little backpressure. What happens to the sound wave pulses in the gasses is an entirely different thing however...all those small (roughly quarter inch) cheese grater shapes and perforations totally break up the sound wave pulses and cause them to become randomized...like a cheese grater, they basically shred the sound waves. The result, especially under fairly high throttle or RPM over 2100, is basically no engine sound from muffler...just the whoosh of the gasses exiting the exhaust pipe. This is absolutely terrible for people (like Jack above) who want to hear their exhaust "music"; but it's absolutely great if you want to keep your hearing (and nerves) intact while towing.

So, bottom line, although both Magnaflow and Gibson are "quiet", they are quiet in entirely different ways and respond to large amounts of throttle in a completely different way. Although it's actually hard to grasp this if a muffler shop just sticks one on the end of the pipe and revs the engine (because there is no load on the engine), you would notice a Magnaflow getting louder as the throttle is stepped on while the Gibson sound would actually seem to get quieter.

Hope this helps explain the difference.

[2000LtdKen]

Ray,

Other than the fact that you live in Colorado and are a Rockies fan and I live in San Diego and root for the Padres , you are OK in my book! Thanks for the detail explanations. I am ordering my Gibson this afternoon.

Ken

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by 2000LtdKen

Ray,

Other than the fact that you live in Colorado and are a Rockies fan and I live in San Diego and root for the Padres , you are OK in my book!

Actually I may be better in your book than you think...you assume incorrectly that I'm a Rockies fan. (Rockies baseball? blech, ptui, ptui ) You see I live on the other side of "the hill" from Denver (Monument Hill)...a 7300 foot high ridge that divides eastern Colorado into two extremely distinct regions: Northern (Denver, Boulder, Ft Collins, etc.) and Southern (Colorado Springs, Pueblo). The regions have quite different weather and climate...and very, very different cultures. I personally try to avoid traveling into or even around Denver to the greatest degree possible. Since all the Colorado major league teams are (1) Denver (blech, ptui, ptui ) and (2) were imported to the state purely for business reasons, I have zero interest in or loyalty to any of them. So, no, I'm definitely not a Rockies fan. Not a Nuggets fan. Not an Avalanche fan. Not even a Broncos fan. The competitive sports I'm interested in...like skiing...can't be contained in any arena or ballfield.

Thanks for the detail explanations. I am ordering my Gibson this afternoon.

Ken

You are most welcome....and good choice. When it's time to install the muffler be sure the shop pays attention to the little tag on one end that says "inlet"...those "cheese graters" make the muffler very much directional and if its installed backwards, you could have a substantial loss of power.

[2000LtdKen]

Got my Gibson installed this morning and it sounds great! The sound level is in between a stock muffler and a performance muffler and does exactly as Ray mentioned, noise goes down at freeway speeds. It does have a little growl at takeoff and is perfect. Only cost me $50 to have installed.

Next project JBA Header installation. I am collecting tools for this. Don't know if I am nuts or what. After reading through the posts here I think I am going to
use:

Toyota Manifold and Collector gaskets
Toyota Nuts on the manifold and collector flange
Anti-seize on all threads
I am sort of a tighten once and forget kinda mechanic so I hope this is gonna work.

Thanks guys,

Ken

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by 2000LtdKen

Got my Gibson installed this morning and it sounds great! The sound level is in between a stock muffler and a performance muffler and does exactly as Ray mentioned, noise goes down at freeway speeds. It does have a little growl at takeoff and is perfect. Only cost me $50 to have installed.

Next project JBA Header installation. I am collecting tools for this. Don't know if I am nuts or what. After reading through the posts here I think I am going to
use:

Toyota Manifold and Collector gaskets
Toyota Nuts on the manifold and collector flange
Anti-seize on all threads
I am sort of a tighten once and forget kinda mechanic so I hope this is gonna work.

Thanks guys,

Ken

Glad you like the sound. You are really going to like the performance from the combo of JBAs and Gibson...especially after the ECU adjusts to both mods and you start towing.

Your install plans sound good though you might seriously consider using the JBA manifold gaskets...they have a bit more coverage around the ports in the header than do the OEM gaskets. That being said, I can't remember anyone who's had a leak by using the OEM gaskets. Definitely use new OEM manifold nuts...that insures you get maximum locking.

[Agent WD-40]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

Your install plans sound good though you might seriously consider using the JBA manifold gaskets...they have a bit more coverage around the ports in the header than do the OEM gaskets. That being said, I can't remember anyone who's had a leak by using the OEM gaskets. Definitely use new OEM manifold nuts...that insures you get maximum locking.

Have people had leaks using the JBA gaskets?

[tuesdayd]

Originally Posted by Agent WD-40

Have people had leaks using the JBA gaskets?

Got about 14k with no leaks (so far ) using the JBA gaskets. I was going to use the OEM gaskets, but due to a couple of the ports not being perfectly round l needed the extra coverage (as Ray mentions) that the JBA's provided.

[2000LtdKen]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

Glad you like the sound. You are really going to like the performance from the combo of JBAs and Gibson...especially after the ECU adjusts to both mods and you start towing.

Your install plans sound good though you might seriously consider using the JBA manifold gaskets...they have a bit more coverage around the ports in the header than do the OEM gaskets. That being said, I can't remember anyone who's had a leak by using the OEM gaskets. Definitely use new OEM manifold nuts...that insures you get maximum locking.

Ray,

Installed my JBA Headers last weekend with my son helping. Took a while but they were good times to spend with the kid. My question is how long does it take for the ECU to adjust? I felt the boost from the headers a little bit after installation and after a week, they feel more powerful and I noticed that I picked up 1 mpg at the last fillup. I also noticed the headers reduce the drone at 2k rpm considerably. Happy happy joy joy!

Thanks,

Ken