Interesting, this PFTE thing never dies

[akauth]

In fact,this test data seems to show it to have merit.

I didn't go through it that much to see particle size, but I wonder how much of this ends up in the filter


http://www.microlon.com


Except for the fact that Dupont never intented PFTE to be used in engines, this looks pretty good....




alan

[tampatundra]

Originally posted by akauth
In fact,this test data seems to show it to have merit.

I didn't go through it that much to see particle size, but I wonder how much of this ends up in the filter


http://www.microlon.com


Except for the fact that Dupont never intented PFTE to be used in engines, this looks pretty good....




alan

snakeoil

[akauth]

Originally posted by tampatundra


snakeoil

Most of the other PFTE vendors have pulled their claims. This does have some (really) crude data to back up it's claims. Still, it's really rough and most of the stuff end up in the filter.

alan

[bgodfrey]

I would caution people to pay attention to people who have tried PTFE oil additives and to ignore people who have not. My experience has been very good.

I am an extreme skeptic. I bought some Slic-50 back in about 1986 or so for my 1981 Toyota PU. Then I chickened out. I figured "can't possibly be as good as they tell you." I had purchased another car in 1985 and the truck was the standby vehicle. Being standby vehicle is not good for the engine and mine suffered. Long about 1989 I got rid of the car and started driving the PU again. By about 1991 it had 100K miles and seemed just about dead. I had it gone over, but the mechanic said she was just old and tired. About that time I moved into a new house and found the Slic-50 while unpacking. I figured "what have I got to lose?" So I put it in the engine at about 110K miles. Back then it actually came with some sort of engine cleaner (kerosene based, I think) and I did the whole plan: cleaned the engine, flushed it, ran a couple of quarts of oil through and flushed it again, changed the filter, added the thoroughly shaken Slick-50, added the remaining oil, then immediately drove it for 45 minutes. I made no other changes to the truck at this time.

Within two weeks I was back to almost new horsepower and gas mileage. I don't know if the engine ran quieter, as they had promised, but I didn't care. I refreshed the Slic-50 every 25,000 miles thereafter. I drove this truck for 175,000 miles and finally traded it in on a T100 in 1995. At that time it could still outrun the big V8 trucks on some passing lanes I have to climb every morning. It just didn't have the cargo capacity that I needed or I would have kept it forever.

I drove the T100 for 25,000 miles to make sure it was broke in and then have done the Slic-50 (or another PTFE brand I can't remember right now) every 25,000 miles since then. I frequently carry heavy loads, though not most of the time. It's now got over 100K miles. I change the oil every 3K miles and it always comes out almost as clean as it went in. I drive some around town (can't hardly call Manzanita "city driving") and mostly highway in hilly country, but that's still pretty good for so many miles.

Frankly, I think the stuff works well. I've experienced it myself. I'm also sure that there are other engines, driving environments, or driving habits in which it would make no difference at all.

I think this is a good product which has suffered from excessive promises. I don't think it's snake-oil, but I can see that some of the people selling it sure come on like snakeoil salesmen. It's not very expensive, why not give it a try? I can't see that it would do any harm.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to gain whether you try it or not.

--Brian

[akauth]

Originally posted by bgodfrey
I would caution people to pay attention to people who have tried PTFE oil additives and to ignore people who have not. My experience has been very good.


--Brian

I've used most of the major pfte brands at one time (including slick 50). Personally, I can't say that they hurt or harmed the engine. Ask me and I'll shrug my head. I don't remember anything extraordinary coming from it.

Dupont has repeatedly said though, that they never intended teflon to be used in an engine. I think a lot of the material ends in the filter. Just because Dupont never intended it to work that way, doesn't mean it doesn't.

You know those yellow sticky notes from 3M? That was originally supposed to be some kind of super glue. So you adapt.

Fram, even has a premium filter already filled with PFTE. Well, they used to. I know, I used a couple of them....

I run synthetic now so I don't even bother with the stuff. I'm pretty sure it would be a step back.

I can only look at test results and then you can say, yes it made a difference. Most of the manufacturers are now having to pull their claims because they don't have the data to support their claims. But "everyone's mileage varies" as they say.

I'm pretty much a try it and see if it helps kind of guy. I'm always trying new stuff. I've got a whole garage full of waxes and lubricants just to see which one works the best. Hate to throw them away because they're practically full, but I'll never use them.

I've never been one to "leave well enough alone". I've always trying to improve on something. I still have a bottle of super premium pfte in my garage from a few years ago.

Alan

[KLS]

"Slick 50's ads claim that compared to motor oil alone, it reduces engine wear, lengthens engine life, and provides a host of other benefits. The claims sound good, but the evidence doesn't back them up,” said Jodie Bernstein, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. “We believe the ads exaggerate the lack of protection motor oils provide modern engines at start-up, as well as the risk of premature engine failure. The premature engine failure Slick 50 claims to guard against is uncommon, and the company lacks reliable evidence it would be prevented by using Slick 50, in any case," she said. "In fact, all the evidence we've seen so far suggests that the best thing you can do for your car’s engine is to get an oil change performed at manufacturer recommended intervals," she said. "People who want to maximize their automobile performance and enhance its long life should read the owner's manual and follow the directions.”

"The FTC complaint also specifically charges that Slick 50 did not have adequate substantiation for its advertising claims that, compared to motor oil alone, the product:"

reduces engine wear;
reduces engine wear by more than 50%;
reduces engine wear by up to 50%;
reduces engine wear at start-up;
extends the duration of engine life;
lowers engine temperatures;
reduces toxic emissions;
increases gas mileage; and
increases horsepower.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/9607/slick.htm

"Lubrisol, Dema Elgin, a Ford Engineer all agree that it does not do anything. According to Roy, to plate teflon on a metal needs an absolutely clean, high temperature surface, in a vacuum. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the teflon in slick 50 actually plates the metal surface. In addition the Cf (Coefficient of friction) of Teflon is actually greater than the Cf of an Oil Film on Steel. Also, if the teflon did fill in 'craters' in the steel, than it would fill in the honing of the cylinder, and the oil would not seal the piston rings. "
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/lubrican...e.html#slick50

[georgeseq]

Regarding "try it, it can't hurt anything". As I type this, I have the broken exhaust valve from an engine sitting on my desk. The valve was from an engine that was using Slick 50; the owner of the engine was of the school "if two asperins are good, four must be better" and added a quart of Slick 50 with each oil change. PTFE, when exposed to heat, pressure, moisture, chemically reverts to hydroflouric acid, thus on its way out of the combustion chanber it chemically milled each exhaust valve down from pencil thickness to pencil lead thickness, thus the broken valve stem. The exhaust system looked like one of the most beautifully machined exhausts I had ever seen! All Chemically machined courtesy Slick 50.
Bottom line: Yes, damage CAN occur with the use of additives, especially in a high performance, state of the art engine such as the Tundra/Sequoia V8.
This is not even scratching the surface with respect to PTFE's clumping characteristic which can block oil passageways, etc. etc.
This is from a lube engineer's perspective........

[akauth]

Originally posted by georgeseq
Regarding "try it, it can't hurt anything". As I type this, I have the broken exhaust valve from an engine sitting on my desk. The valve was from an engine that was using Slick 50; the owner of the engine was of the school "if two asperins are good, four must be better" and added a quart of Slick 50 with each oil change. PTFE, when exposed to heat, pressure, moisture, chemically reverts to hydroflouric acid, thus on its way out of the combustion chanber it chemically milled each exhaust valve down from pencil thickness to pencil lead thickness, thus the broken valve stem. The exhaust system looked like one of the most beautifully machined exhausts I had ever seen! All Chemically machined courtesy Slick 50.
Bottom line: Yes, damage CAN occur with the use of additives, especially in a high performance, state of the art engine such as the Tundra/Sequoia V8.
This is not even scratching the surface with respect to PTFE's clumping characteristic which can block oil passageways, etc. etc.
This is from a lube engineer's perspective........

Thanks for the insight George. I didn't realize that PTFE modified that way. But as I mentioned, Dupont never intended to use it that way. Now that I run synthetic, I don't see any reason to add anything else. I don't think you can get any better, and as you point out, it can certainly get worse!

Did that engine have a LOT of miles on it?


alan