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Engine & DrivetrainDiscussions about the engine and drivetrain of your vehicle.
This is a discussion thread titled "2000 toyota 4runner at wits end", within the Engine & Drivetrain forum, part of the Technical & Vehicle Assistance Forums category.
Okay, here it goes, I have a 2000 toyota 4runner with 98k. Over the last few months I have been having issues. First the check engine light came on, I took it into Buena Park toyota, never take your cars here. They said it was my first cylinder and the engine was built incorrectly, they had to rebuild it to fix the spacing of the piston in regard to the cylinder wall. Well I asked a mechanic buddy of mine, he said not to allow them to do this. The engine light reading came out to a compression issue and toyota gave me that answer as to why. Anyway from my friend and these forums, I have replaced all spark plugs, cleaned MAF, cleaned throttle body, reset computers, PCV value has vacume, oil changed, tranny flush filter change, coolant flush and change, unhooked battery, used all sorts of injector cleaners, throttle body cleaners, vacume lines so on...pretty much the entire gamut of what was suggested for rough idling.
Basically, if the vechicle warms up I can drive with no problems, but if I want to drive after turning it over, no way. It dies on me, I have to wait to let it warm up, when I come to a stop while driving I have to gradually and gently slow down or it will die. If I turn on the ac while it is idling it will die.
My poor 4runner, I have taken such great care of her, it is a shame to see her go out like this...anyone have any ideas??
Oh and I took it to another dealership, they said I needed a new timing belt and an oil change to fix it.
I appreciate anything really...because I do not know what to do at all at this point....mentally and financially drained.
Wow...the whole cyllinder thing is new to me. That was some creative writing.
As for the timing belt and oil change, that's not going to do it, either (unless the timing belt skipped a tooth; does happen, but pretty rare).
If you would like more input from us on the board, you need to get the actual code numbers associated with the check engine light. You can go to Autozone and they will hook up a scan tool to your truck and pull the codes. Post them up here and you'll get better advice.
I would suggest you find a really good independent shop to troubleshoot your truck. Ask friends and neighbors for recommendations. A reasonable shop will want to "diagnose" the truck and will charge you for that. This involves pulling codes from the computer and physically checking the engine for things like vaccuum leaks, loose wires, stuff like that. From what you describe, it almost sounds like a vaccuum leak of some kind...perhaps a disconnected/cracked vaccuum line, or a leak at the intake manifold/plenumn.
"The engine light reading came out to a compression issue"
Well, unfortunately a check engine light will NOT reveal a compression issue. The only way to verify a problem with a particular cylinder is to do a compression test and a leak-down test. This will comfirm what's good and what's not internally. You really do need to find a good mechanic to take his time and troubleshoot this issue. A good tech w/a scanner should be able to narrow the problem greatly instead of throwing parts at it. Could be as simple as a bad coolant temp sensor.
ok, I got all the codes they are, P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303....all of them relate to engine misfires, 300 is all cyn mis fire the rest go with each cyn misfire.
I have replaced the spark plugs before and I re checked all the wiring and appears ok.
I switched from a K&N back to the stock filter and I used SeaFoam.
Now the rough idle is very bad, the engine will not stay on at all. It powers up, goes for a bit sputters and dies. If I keep the gas pedal pressed and let it idle at 900 to a 1000 rpm it is fine but drops below 900 it stalls out dies.
My strong suspicion is that you have a vaccuum leak. This would explain the no-idle and the misfire codes. Any part of the intake track past the MAF is suspect. Examine the intake duct very carefully. You might even completely remove it so that you can check for cracks all around the circumference. They can crack between bellows. The next suspect would be the intake manifold, especially near the cyllinders kicking out the code. I *believe* Toyota numbers the cyllinders as 1-2-3 as one bank and 4-5-6 as the other. If you are only getting P0301, P0302, & P0303, that tells me the leak (or whatever the culprit really is) is impacting that bank of the engine. A quick, but potentially hazardous, way to find a vacuum leak is to get the engine running at a constant rpm (near idle) and spray carb cleaner around the intake duct, the intake manifold, intake plenum, etc. If the engine speed increases, you found your leak. Some people use propane from a propane torch to do this. Just be careful.
The whole single bank theory might also play into a bad camshaft sensor on that bank. Weird that it isn't kicking out a code, but stranger things have happened.
A good troubleshooter would hook the car up to a scan tool and watch what the engine is doing, not just pull codes. With the scan tool, he can verify that the injectors on that bank are firing, that the O2 on that bank is reading normal (or not), and so forth.
If you are mechanically inclined, you might want to run a complete compression check. This would directly address what dealer #1 said. It would also address any major mechanical damage. If you pull the plugs and see coolant on them, you found your problem!
Since only cylinders 1,2 & 3 are being effected, i'm assuming the multi/random code was due to these, so something that'd effect the entire engine is at the bottom of my list. I'd be looking more at what would effect those particular cylinders. If they are all on 1 bank then it could be a possible head gasket issue, ignition, or fuel delivery system problem. If it were a MAF or vacuum leak, i'd expect all cylinders effected or at least just the 0300 code. I'd also find the firing order to see if they fire in that order to see if it could be an ignition issue. The dealer also should've told you how many misfires were detected on each cylinder but then again if they gave you that load of crap, it doesn't surprise me they didn't. It would be very helpful to know. You really need a scanner and a tech to read it, otherwise we can only guess at the problem.
I have the inline 4. Dealership said the spacing of the pistons was .06 as opposed to .10. But when I peeked at my engine they did not remove anything so I was not sure how they determined that.
I will check for leaks. I am thinking I might have to have it towed to a garage which just works on toyotas or imports.
"Dealership said the spacing of the pistons was .06 as opposed to .10"
Wow, they're really feeding you a bunch of crap. "Spacing of pistons" is deffinately a new one to me. Are they refering to piston to cylinder clearance, piston ring end gaps, or what? The terms and numbers deffinately do not make any sense so do not go back to that dealer. Have it towed.
I meant that i'd expect to see ONLY the 0300 code or a 0304 in addition to the others. Why #4 isn't misfiring would be a question i'd be asking myself. If the MAF or another sensor that effects all the cylinders were the problem i'd expect an across-the-board misfire.
OK....the whole 4-cyl thing changes things....looks like this is the 2.7L I-4?
I've never worked on this engine.
Let's verify what we're working with here....let's also verify the codes.
The whole 1,2,3 misfire thing is suspicious...I think 4 is misfiring, too, just not kicking the code.
On troubleshooting....start with the easy stuff.
1. The easiest- visually inspect the intake duct and all hoses/vaccuum lines for leaks. You need to poke and prod and twist and grab. You might just move a tube and find a big ole crack! They're tough to see unless you move stuff around to open up the crack. Make sure than any tube/hose downstream of the MAF is in good condition and hooked up! If not, the engine is getting air that the MAF is NOT measuring, causing a lean condition.
2. Verify that the throttle body bolts and intake manifold bolts are tight...this again gets to the whole vaccuum leak theory...and, it's easy to do.
3. Perform the "wiggle" test. Fire up the truck and get it to keep running. Wiggle all vaccuum lines and electrical connectors. Using the butt end of a screwdriver or similar, tap on the MAF, the TPS, and any other sensors you can reach. If the engine changes its tune all of the sudden, you are on to something.
4. Perform the vaccuum leak test using brake clean, carb cleaner, propane, hairspray, aerosol deodorant, whatever. The propelant in aerosol products is flamable (as is propane). When sprayed in an area near a vaccuum leak, the flamable gas is sucked into the engine, causing the engine to speed up. This is probably the fastest way to find an intake manifold leak.
So far, we have the free/easy tests covered. Now, we get into more advanced tests.
5. Pull the spark plugs and "read" them. Traces of green or red fluid are bad news....Have someone crank the engine with the plugs out...what the holes...fluid coming out of the cyllinders is bad news. These are easy ways to check for a blown head gasket.
6. The motor should have a timing belt inspection cover or inspection hole. Pull the cover or unplug the hole...look for the timing mark on the camshaft pulley. Turn the motor by hand in the direction of normal rotation until the crank pulley timing mark indicates TDC. It should turn easily if you have the plugs out. Look for the camshaft pulley mark (it might not be visible meaning that you need to rotate the crank another 360*). You'll probably need a reference manual to tell you where that crankshaft pulley mark should be pointed. What we're trying to do is figure out if the timing belt has jumped a tooth on the camshaft (as per the second shop's diagnosis).
7. Do a compression check. This requires a compression gauge. Cyllinder pressures should be within 10% of each other. Leave all plugs out...I had an engine that read fine when the plug in the adjacent cyllinder was in but bad when I pulled out the other plug.
These are the basic things that a good mechanic will do. Be wary of someone just wanting to read codes. The proper way to use a scan tool in this situation is to watch what the engine is doing and try to deduce why it's not doing what it should.
I took it into a toyota centric garage. They called me and said because of the misfires...they have to open up the engine...$1500 and most likely replace all the valves...the mechanic said no compression in the first three cynlinders...
each valve replacement would be $35 on top of the 1500....
he did not even finish running his tests...he also thinks that the catalyitic converter is not functioning but tommrow he will test it...
what should I do guys? like donate it and take the tax write off and get another vechicle? repair it? its only worth 8 grand...
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2000 toyota 4runner at wits end
Re: 2000 toyota 4runner at wits end
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