Broke my Rear Diff?

JeffD · #1 (**permalink**) 09-30-2002, 10:53 AM

I changed my rear diff oil this weekend, and a gear tooth was stuck to the drain plug. I change all the fluids about every 20,000 miles. Currently I have under 120k. The truck seems to drive fine, but has a clicking on deceleration at low speeds. I had noticed the clicking first about 10,000 miles ago, and had been ignoring it, thinking it was a U-Joint, and I would just replace them when I got around to it. The tooth is not particulary big, I am thinking it looks like a tooth from a spider gear, but I don't know for sure - and I would like to have the replacement parts before I open up the rear end.

Has anyone else found teeth in their oil, and if so - what part was damaged? From the speed, and type of noise, I would assume that the damage is to the decel side of the pinion gear, but again - the tooth seems to be too thin to be a ring or pinion gear. On the other hand - I have never been inside a toyota rear end - so I don't know what to expect.

Hmmm. I wonder if the money I was saving to do the timing belt should be used for the rear end instead - I think the timing belt will probably go for a while longer, I'm not so sure about the rear end.

Well, this would be a good time to install limited slip I guess.

BirdDog0 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-30-2002, 12:00 PM

Ahhh. What a perfect time to install a limited slip. Sucks you found chunks of metal though. Trust me, I know all about this. How many miles do you have??
Chances are it is a spider or side gear. I've recently removed mine and installed Powertrax (both front and rear) and the side/spider gears in this truck look very weak compared to the rest of the set up. I can almost guarantee it's not from your ring or pinion. These components are beefy as all get out!

West Coast differentials sells spider and side gears, but I'm not sure for how much...but if you have to rebuild it, you may as well do it right...I went with Powertrax and have been pleasantly surpised and satisfied, others have done the LSD thing. Functional, yes, but still have the same problem as the open dif gearing...plus all the "special" oils you have to use...

Check out my thread "This be Ugly" in the Engine/Drivetrain forum...I included a pic of my front dif spider/side gears...it won't be long before this happens to your rear end, trust me...
-BD0

Slowflyer · #3 (**permalink**) 10-04-2002, 07:54 AM

Hey BirdDog0,

When you installed the rear Powertrax, did you have to remove the ring gear and pinion to install it? How hard was it?

JeffD · #4 (**permalink**) 10-04-2002, 09:26 AM

I ordered an Eaton Posi - (supposedly same as TRD LSD), With the eaton, the pinion can stay in place, but I have to move the ring gear to the eaton carrier. When I looked into the PowerTrax, it looked like it would fit into the existing carrier without touching the ring or pinion gears.

Slowflyer · #5 (**permalink**) 10-04-2002, 09:59 AM

If you take the ring gear off to install the posi does the ring gear simply bolt back on the carrier with no realignment, or do you have to realign the ring and pinion gears?

ultimit-high · #6 (**permalink**) 10-06-2002, 10:38 PM

Yes, you have to remove the ring gear to get the powertrax in. I installed one in my truck 2 weeks ago. And I dont believe you have to realign the gears when you do. Just bolt back on. Toyota does use a loc-tite though. Kinda difficult to get off.

The powertrax works great. I took it out on a big rockcrawling run this weekend. The difference is night and day between the OD and the NSD. It really helped me get up those uneven steps. I would suggest powertrax to anyone. Especially with the opportunity you are going to have.

JeffD · #7 (**permalink**) 10-07-2002, 09:29 AM

My rear end works again. . . I put in the Eaton LSD this weekend - I had 4 teeth broken off two spider gears. I have put a couple hundred miles on - so far so good.

BirdDog0 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-08-2002, 11:36 AM

SLowflyer - Ultimate high hit it on the head. Yes, you need to remove the ring, no it does not need realignment, Yes it is some work getting the ring off. If you have access to a vise and a decent breaker bar, you're good to go though!

Ultimate - Isn't that insane how much a difference that NSD makes off road? I've noticed much better acceleration on-road too, say, at a corner and you're turning quickly...no hesistation, just lots of get up and go!

Installed the front locker yesterday...works like charm, but unfortunately my pinion bearing was damaged when the last dif "exploded"....gotta get that fixed now too...

JeffD · #9 (**permalink**) 10-08-2002, 12:51 PM

Hmmm. My rear pinion bearing was damaged as well. I guess ground up teeth floating around in the oil is not good for bearings. I didn't realize until after I got the thing apart and felt it wasn't smooth. I didn't have the part so I put it back together as it was. With the truck off the ground I can hear noise from it, but I can't hear it over the noise of the truck while driving. I will go ahead and order one, but I am not going to replace it until I have to.

v8Toilet · #10 (**permalink**) 10-08-2002, 06:47 PM

Hey Birddog was your four wheel drive not disengaged while you were driving on dry pavement and that might be what caused the front dif to fail?

I hope my rear dif doesn’t fail. That truck is my only transportation.

BirdDog0 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-09-2002, 10:13 AM

To the best of my knowledge, it wasn't engaged. I'm pretty anal when it comes to checking things out and making sure everything is in working order before I get out and drive. So, if 4WD WAS engaged, there sure were no idications that it was. Plus, the damage occurred in complete silence! No grinding, no popping, no shudders...nothing....

ultimit-high · #12 (**permalink**) 10-09-2002, 10:30 PM

BirdDogO- Completly freakin amazing. The traction I recieved was great. Do agree with the cornering acceleration, no hesitation. I thank Iam going to go with the front locker next,also. Keep us posted of the longterm results.

Question for you guys. Would it be a real problem to run in four wheel drive on dry pavement, say for a long period of time(100 miles or so)? The reason I am asking is because I had to do this about six months ago. I guess I should add, that while doing some offroading I hit a massive rock buried in the sand. No, I did not see it till it was to late. Some major damage accured. Like, a bent cross member, a bent lower A-arm, and also bent drive shaft. The drive shaft was bent so bad that it was causing a crazy amount of vibrations. So, my only choices at that time were to call AAA and pay a $500 towing bill or the choice I made which was to remove rear drive shaft and drive home in a front wheel drive Tundra. Never driving over 55 mph (if that makes a difference). So my question is do you guys thank that I could of caused any major longterm damage? Or should I have notice something by now. No wierd noises etc. have been notice. I know have put 15,000 miles on since the accident.
Thanks in advance for any suggestion, advice etc...
U-H

JeffD · #13 (**permalink**) 10-10-2002, 08:57 AM

I don't think that would hurt as long as you were easy on it. There would be no binding between the front and rear. I actually considered doing that when I knew there was something wrong in the rearend and I was a thousand miles from home. I had my tools ready so that if the back quit pushing, I could unhook the driveshaft and put it in 4HI (front wheel drive).

I just wouldn't want to put any serious power through the front driveshafts because I assume they are smaller than what would be spec'd for a front wheel drive truck.

rover67 · #14 (**permalink**) 03-04-2003, 02:43 AM

so does the powertrax unit replace the spyder gears and the center section of the diff, or does it fit inbetween all of these things? I have gone through two open diffs now, and I want something that has a good amount of lock. As I understand it, the TRD/eaton unit slips too much. I want something that I can PUNISH on the street and off-road an still have it perform. I want to be able to punch it and goe sideways around every dry paved corner I see. I am basically sick of the stock stuff breaking, and even though I'm hard on the truck, I don't think theres and excuse.

v8Toilet · #15 (**permalink**) 03-06-2003, 05:28 AM

You know you've got me worried! How the heck did you break two of them? The Powertrax can be installed without having to reset the pinion gear. It’s basically bolt on installation and I'm considering it.