I have a new 03 V-8 Tundra access cab with 300 miles. I took the truck to the dealership today to my oil and filter changed. I took 7 quarts of Mobil1 5w-30 and gave to the dealer for this service.
The Toyota handbook says the engine requires 6.5 quarts when changing the filter and 5.7 quarts without filter change. The dealership put the entire 7 quarts into the engine and said "not to worry". When checking the dipstick, it reads slightly over the full mark. I asked the service advisor to correct this and he could not have cared less. Anyway, please give me any advice you have on this problem and I will deal with the service advisor in the morning.
Thanks.
I caught my dealer over filling my oil a couple of times, same comment, 'it won't hurt', so I started checking the level before I left the dealer, and made them drain the excess, they don't overfill anymore!
Steve
__________________ 2007 Tundra DblCab Limited Salsa Red Pearl
SNUG TOP SL, BED RUG, VAIS TECH. IPOD CONTROLLER, DU-HA REAR UNDER SEAT STORAGE BOX, TRD EXHAUST, TRD ANTI SWAY BAR, BILLET GRILL, 2.5" FRONT LIFT, NAVI, XM, SONAR, 20" WHEELS, RUNNING BOARDS, PIAA DRIVING LIGHTS,DRL ENABLED 2005 Tundra Double Cab SR5 TRD 4x2,Phantom Gray Pearl, SOLD
Magnaflow, TRD wheels chromed,VSE sub, side badges removed, Line-X, Onki Nerf Board, 3rd Eye rear sonar System 2004 Highlander Limited 2 wd, Salsa Red 2000 Access Cab SR-5 4x2 -SOLD
Originally posted by jazzpicker ...Anyway, please give me any advice you have on this problem. Thanks.
Don't worry about it because it isn't harming anything. When the 2000 models first came out, people were running 7.0 to 7.5 quarts of oil without any ill effects because of dipsticks that were too short. The only concern with the additional oil is if you get so much in there that the end of the connecting rods start contacting it and churning air into the oil. It will likely take way more than 8 quarts to do this since a quart of oil only raises the level in the crankcase about 1/4".
Based on the dealer's poor attitude regarding this, I wouldn't reward them with any more of your business if that is possible. I do agree with them that it isn't a problem, but they should have explained it to you in a more customer friendly way. I would either change my own oil next time, which is what I do, or I would find another place to get it changed.
If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.
Originally posted by arkie6 Don't worry about it because it isn't harming anything. When the 2000 models first came out, people were running 7.0 to 7.5 quarts of oil without any ill effects because of dipsticks that were too short. The only concern with the additional oil is if you get so much in there that the end of the connecting rods start contacting it and churning air into the oil. It will likely take way more than 8 quarts to do this since a quart of oil only raises the level in the crankcase about 1/4".
Based on the dealer's poor attitude regarding this, I wouldn't reward them with any more of your business if that is possible. I do agree with them that it isn't a problem, but they should have explained it to you in a more customer friendly way. I would either change my own oil next time, which is what I do, or I would find another place to get it changed.
If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.
Alan
Alan's right. Originally the dealer were putting in 8 quarts of oil. That's a lot of oil. So it's even more than 8 that will do any damage.
Under the crank shaft there is a shield to even protect the rotating shaft from oil contact.
Excess oil can contribute to higher pressures and excessive vapors in the crankcase and could cause leaks as the extra oil is forced past seals and/or gaskets. If the oil level is extremely high (which yours probably isnt) and reaches the crank it can make the oil foam resulting in a LOSS of lubrication and make your engine labor harder with the extra oil. 7 quarts is not too scary, but I would be afraid at 8+ (if it were my truck).
Originally posted by puppychop3 Excess oil can contribute to higher pressures and excessive vapors in the crankcase and could cause leaks as the extra oil is forced past seals and/or gaskets. If the oil level is extremely high (which yours probably isnt) and reaches the crank it can make the oil foam resulting in a LOSS of lubrication and make your engine labor harder with the extra oil. 7 quarts is not too scary, but I would be afraid at 8+ (if it were my truck).
Just my $.02
With the original dipsticks (which toyota said were not detrimental to the engine) "full" could be as much as 8 quarts.
Probably the reason that they pulled the sticks was that it's not the 8 quarts that mattered, it was if you screwed up and put in 8.5 to 9 or something like that.
There is a margin of safety that was taken away with the old dipsticks. 7 quarts is way within the limits of safety.
Foaming is really the only risk from seriously overfilling.
Originally posted by puppychop3 Excess oil can contribute to higher pressures and excessive vapors in the crankcase and could cause leaks as the extra oil is forced past seals and/or gaskets...
Excess oil can contribute to higher pressures in what? The crankcase? Care to explain that theory? It's not likely to do that since the crankcase is under a slightly negative pressure when in operation due to the crankcase ventilation system. Extra oil in the pan makes no difference regarding this. I'm talking 1-2 extra quarts here, not 5-10 extra quarts. A moderate amount of extra oil in the pan is not going to have any effect on seal or gasket leakage either because the crankcase is maintained under negative pressure and the static oil level is well below the seals and gaskets. If you have so much oil in there that it is pooling around your crankshaft seals, then you will have way more problems with oil foaming and HP losses to even worry about potential leaks. No reason extra oil would create extra vapors that I can think of either unless it is getting into the crankshaft and connecting rods.
Yes Arkie6, most modern engines run with a slight VACUUM in the crankcase, which is maintained by the crankcase breather valve and PCV Valve (I am not sure but I think our Tundras us a Variable-FLow PCV Valve). However, the crankcase CAN become "PRESSURIZED" (at least in theory) due to a clogged PCV valve (which I am sure you know that the VAPOR from HOT engine OIL and also from exhaust gases escape past the piston rings via the PCV valve. If this "blowby" exceeds the ability of the PCV valve to draw in the vapors, the excess blowby will flow through the breather hose to the air cleaner housing where it then re-enters the combustion chamber (Not trying to give you a PCV Valve101 lesson ARkie6 - just trying to explain myself).
Having said all that, THE THEORY IS THAT THE INCREASED OIL CAN LEAD TO INCREASED "BLOWBY" WHICH IN TURN CAN LEAD TO A CLOGGED PCV VALVE AND/OR BREATHER VALVE. A plugged PCV valve can make your truck run richer, BUT a clogged breather hose could possibly cause the engine to consume oil because of the INCREASE in the crankcase vacuum.
Now to address your other point ARKIE6: [ARKIE6 Quote "extra oil in the pan is not going to have any effect on seal or gasket leakage either because the crankcase is maintained under negative pressure and the static oil level is well below the seals and gaskets"] - - - - some tell tale signs of a restricted PCV system are in fact oil leaks, especially at the valve covers, and other gaskets and seals.
THE BOTTOM LINE: DO WHAT YOU WANT, BUT IF YOU WANT MY OPINION THERE IS A REASON WHY TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION SPECIFIES 6.5QUARTS AND NOT A 6.5 to 8 QUART RANGE OR SOMETHING ELSE. TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (NOT THE DEALER) HAS SPENT BILLIONS ON R&D!!!
Hmmm...
I'm trying to follow, but don't really see how you reach your conclusions. Anyway, please don't use all caps. ITS LIKE SHOUTING, and folks like us (almost) never do that.
Blowby is the combustion gases leaking past the piston rings. The oil level isn't going to affect that. Any vapors off the oil will mainly depend on the amount of oil surface (we'll say that temperature, agitation, and volatility are staying constant), and most will come from the oil spraying and splashing around in the crankcase before it falls to the sump.
Who knows why Toyota decided on 6.5 quarts? Maybe because 5.5 quarts is the minimum safe point, and the normal level is usually one quart above the low point? Who knows?
I'll share with you my own little experience with an overfilled crankcase. This doesn't involve my Tundra but my Lexus LS 400 (which I've now traded in for an LS 430). Anyway, I took the Lexus to the dealer for routine maintenance and an oil change. Afterwards, everything seemed fine, but I noticed that it was putting out lots of blue smoke, especially under hard acceleration. I checked the engine but couldn't find anything wrong. A Lexus shouldn't be burning oil! So I decided to put the car up and change the oil myself. I had a 10 quart pan under the crankcase. Well, the oil filled the pan and ran over the side! Those idiots at the Lexus service department had added new oil without draining the old stuff out. I took the car back and told them about it. They didn't seem real concerned. They checked the engine out thoroughly and reported that everything was fine. I guess it was, becase I drove it another 15,000 miles and had no problems. So I suppose a measly half quart overfill won't make any difference.
Like I said before, I dont think a half quart is a big deal, HOWEVER at some point adding too much oil can be a bad thing - can anyone disagree with that statement? I can give you a list of things that can go WRONG with adding too much oil, but can you give me ONE GOOD reason to overfill the engine oil (in the context of adding it for the purpose of everyday driving)? If you want to make your truck a guineau pig and let me know how much oil over the 6.5 recommended quarts it took before your truck started smoking and running poorly I would be curious to know the answer.
Now at a hard 89K; I change the oil and filter every 5-7K. 7 quarts every time change.
In my experience with several previous high mileage engines (85K on Harley, 265K on Jag, 300+ on T-Bird, 450K on Camry, 520K on Dodge, etc) No probs, an extra 1/2 quart won't do any harm.
Of course the Hog doesn't really count, it use to leak a quart every week; towards the end often leaked by the oil pump check valve (then what a mess). My $0.02
I agree an additional 1/2 quart will not cause any major problems, but like everyone else I like to keep it at the manufacture's recommended level, when I'm doing it myself.
The real story here is $$$$ for that extra 1/2 quart in your service cost, or the hassle of having to give you a 1/2 quart of oil back. That with Murphy's Law would leak in your truck and cause them more expense.
From that aspect I guess I can understand the motivation on their part, but I would expect them to explain it in more detail and not brush you off if they are asked the question.
__________________ 08 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited (former ride - 05 Tundra Limited Double Cab, 4x4, TRD Pkg, Trailer Tow, Auto Dimming mirror, Factory Bed Liner, Running Boards, Bug Deflector, Sun roof):
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Oh by the way, "Batteries are included" with the Prius & Highlander Hybrids
OK people, while this may not be authoritative black letter automotive law here is what this guy says about adding too much oil (feel free to take it with a grain of salt):
San Jose Mercury News June 28, 2002, Friday
Copyright 2002 Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News
Copyright 2002 San Jose Mercury News
San Jose Mercury News
June 28, 2002, Friday
KR-ACC-NO: SJ-AUTO-QNA
LENGTH: 530 words
HEADLINE: San Jose Mercury News, Calif., Automotive Inquiries Column
BYLINE: By Brad Bergholdt
BODY:
QUESTION: After returning home from the dealership following the first scheduled oil change of my new VW Passat, I checked the dipstick and found it overfilled with oil. The level was about twice what it should have been. The dealer did not explain what had happened. However, they were very concerned and sent out a driver to take the car back and remedy the problem immediately. My question: Because the dealer is located about 20 miles from my home, is it likely that my new car's engine was damaged by the 40-mile round trip between the dealership and my home while the engine oil was overfilled? Obviously they assured me that no harm was done, but I would value your opinion.
-- Ernest B. Mullings
Fairhope, Ala.
ANSWER: This is a tough call without being there at the time of the incident. When you checked the oil level, did it appear clear or frothy? Were there any signs of oil escaping the engine through gaskets, seals or the PCV plumbing?
If the crankcase were overfilled by a quart -- which could look like a lot on the dipstick -- odds are excellent there were no ill effects. If the oil level were higher than this, it's possible for the crankshaft to strike the oil, whipping it into an aerated froth. If severe enough, this could lead to a loss of oil pressure (possible engine damage) and external leakage, due to excessive crankcase pressure.
My hunch is your engine is fine. If the oil level had been high enough to cause any problems, you would have noticed the symptoms at the time you checked it. If none were present, the return trip should have been just as uneventful.
My first Tundra (2000) had the wrong dipstick. I noticed that it was putting out blue smoke especially if it was on a grade like in my driveway. I found out about the wrong dipstick here.
They were putting in the Canadian equivalent of about a quart and a half too much. When I made them take it out, I could feel the difference in the power and the smoking stopped.
I'm pretty sure that in a regular American engine it's probably no problem, they leak anyway but there's no way anyone can convince me that a tight engine system like the Tundras was/is not damaged by too much oil. In mine it was being burnt in the engine which means it was being forced by the rings.
For one or two days, I wouldn't worry about it, just get them to take it out, but for me it went on for 6 months before I figured out what was wrong. I traded it.
Dealership oil overfill problem
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