To many people over do it with oil concerns - Page 4

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Thread: To many people over do it with oil concerns

  1. #46
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    Castrol GTX for me, with STP or Ford Filters. I didnt spend $30K on my tundra, much less. I only need it to last 80-100K, though I have little doubt it CAN last longer if I can stand looking at it by then I see no reason to put in synthetic as long as I change the oil every 5K or less or every 6 months.

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    Interesting thing I noticed in my buddies Suburban with the oil life indicator.......it never comes on until around 8500 miles. BTW we uses it exclusively on the highway and puts over 50k a year on it.

    Just how do those sensors work?
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    My wifes Tahoe with 5.3L V8 has the "Change Engine Oil" Light. The owners manual states that it tracks engine temp, RPM's, and "driving habits" to calculate when to turn the light on.

    I was a little dissapointed GM didn't put any more "technology" in it than that !

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    Ahhhh...the old syntehtic debate again...no other topic arouses more opinion and stire more emotion. Fact is synthetics offer many benefits--too numerous to mention--and it WAY more than merketing hype. Mobile ! and Castrol and NOT true synthetics, AMSOIL and Redline are... If you've ever done valve jobs on various engines you can see the ones that use dino juice and the ones that run TRUE synthetic. Run whatever you want, cheapest stuff in the world if you want... But the statment that synthetics do not offer additional protection is simply not accurate. Period.

  6. #50
    marks tundra
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    Default The same has been done with dino juice...............

    I've seen plenty of engines with high mileage with regular oil changes, takin apart and did not have any worn valves/guides/springs.Even main and rod bearings in great shape.Your going to have avg's of some engines running on dino oil will show more wear than synthetic and some who think synthetic is no better.It is not Fact.Their are alot of variables that impose wear in an engine.The way it's maintained / serviced and driven.So me were it tells me to use synthetic oil in my toyota tundra manual.Just for ha ha's go look up info on chevron supreme oil (isosyn) manufactured oil.It's got the same process as do the base II+ AND base lll synthetic oil's.Do searches on oil on the net and you will find info even regarding Mobil1 going back to base III oil.Because of the lawsuit with castrol regarding why they can say their oil is
    "SYNTHETIC".Castrol ,valvaline,pennsoil etc except(Amsoil) uses the same ISOSYN technology as due Chevron Supreme, which only costs anywhere from .94 cents to $1.29.Don't believe all the hype about synthetic oils.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marks tundra
    I've seen plenty of engines with high mileage with regular oil changes, takin apart and did not have any worn valves/guides/springs.Even main and rod bearings in great shape.Your going to have avg's of some engines running on dino oil will show more wear than synthetic and some who think synthetic is no better.It is not Fact.Their are alot of variables that impose wear in an engine.The way it's maintained / serviced and driven.So me were it tells me to use synthetic oil in my toyota tundra manual.Just for ha ha's go look up info on chevron supreme oil (isosyn) manufactured oil.It's got the same process as do the base II+ AND base lll synthetic oil's.Do searches on oil on the net and you will find info even regarding Mobil1 going back to base III oil.Because of the lawsuit with castrol regarding why they can say their oil is
    "SYNTHETIC".Castrol ,valvaline,pennsoil etc except(Amsoil) uses the same ISOSYN technology as due Chevron Supreme, which only costs anywhere from .94 cents to $1.29.Don't believe all the hype about synthetic oils.
    You can only lead a horse to water, you can't MAKE him drink.

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    Mark,

    ChevronTexaco's Isosyn is their registered trademark name for their hydroprocessing that has been licensed and in use by many refiners. These refiners use the Isosyn process but cannot use that name. "Chevron Lummus Global is the world's leading developer and licensor of hydroprocessing technology.... most Group II and group III base oils worldwide are made using Chevron Lummus Global technology."
    http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/BaseOils/isodewax.shtml

    Mobil 1 is not Group III base oil. It is Group IV polyalphaolefin base oil, plus a small amount of Group V ester.

    The oils with the legal right to be called "full synthetic," even though they're made from Group III base oil, have different characteristics from oils made from Group II or II+ base oil. The process for making the base oil is carried farther, at higher cost, and the product is superior. Here's more info: http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/base...f4%5Ffaq.shtml
    http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._perform.shtml

    I'm not implying that ChevronTexaco products are superior...they are excellent, but mainly they have a super source of online reference material.


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    Default To Many People Over Do It With Oil Concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by marks tundra
    I'm an Evaluator of ALL internal aircraft components (helicopter) for the Military i.e. SEAHAWKS/BLACKHAWKS/SUPERSTALLION 53E.These parts go thru extreme torque and very high rpms.From the studies of our engineering group here,they have found NO conclusive evidence of synthetic oil being a better lubricant in any which way or form that's all. :
    MARK,
    I'M NOT HERE TO GET ON YOUR CASE BUT ONE ITEM OF MENTION IN THE SERVICE MANUAL FOR ALL THOSE HELICOPTERS AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THE ENGINES, WHAT TYPE OIL IS CALLED OUT MIL-23669 OR EQUILVANT? I'M NO ENGINEER BUT I CAN READ A MAINTENANCE MANUAL AND ALL THE BOOKS ON ALL THE AIRCRAFT I'M INVOLVED WITH ARE CALLING OUT SYNTHETIC OILS, FROM CESSNA,FALCON,HAWKER,GULFSTREAM,BOEING,AND EVEN SIKORSKY,NOT TO MENTION G.E,PRATT& WHITNEY,HONEYWELL,ROLLSROYCE ENGINES. ALL DO NOT ASK, BUT REQUIRE YOU TO USE ONE OF THE SYNTHETIC OILS LISTED IN THERE APROVED OILS LIST. NOW I CAN SAY THAT YOUR PEOPLE ARE PROABLY CORRECT ON WEAR IN THE GEAR BOXES OF THE HELICOPTER FOR MANY REASONS, BUT I WOULD NOT WANT TO PUT MY FAMILY ON A JET AIRCRAFT WITH DINO OIL IN THE OIL TANK AND FLY COAST TO COAST WITH IT, MIGHT AS WELL JUST TAKE THE GUN AND SHOOT THEM NOW. DINO OIL JUST WILL NOT HANDLE THE HEAT, IT WILL TURN TO COAK BY THE TIME THE ENGINE HITS NORMAL OPERATING TEMP. DINO,AND SYNTHETIC HAVE THERE PLACE ,AND THEY IS A MONITERY ISSUE YES. BUT IT COMES DOWN TO WHAT FLOATS YOUR BOAT. AND THE OTHER THING IS THAT MOBIL OR OTHER COMPANY'S DON'T EXPRESS EXTENDED OIL CHANGES BUT THEY ALSO DON'T SAY YOU CAN'T DO IT. WITH PROPER OIL SAMPLES AND TESTING I CAN NOT SEE HOW IT CAN HURT YOU . BUT IT MOSTLY COMES DOWN TO PERFERANCE, YOU LIKE WHITE CAR I LIKE A BLACK CAR.
    KEVIN

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    A very interesting thread, this one. I bumped it to add something but also to ask a question.

    My question: the owner's manual of my 2004 Sequoia says to use 5W-30 oil. I live in Southern California; the possible temperature extremes are roughly 35F-110F, going from a cold winter night to a hot summer day. Would it be a big problem for me to use 10W-30? I don't think so, but maybe someone knows more about this than I do.

    Following is what I wanted to add to the discussion. It ran in Consumer Reports back in 1996.

    ===========================
    Consumer Reports Article




    The surprising truth about motor oils




    July 1996, pp 10-13



    Our 4-1/2-million-mile test with a fleet of New York City taxicabs turned some conventional wisdom on its head.

    Mobil commercial claims its oil "has been in more Indy 500 winners than any other oil." Quaker State shows an engine with a terminally corroded inside what they imply could happen when you use another oil. Exxon's commercial for its Superflo oil urges motorists to "rely on the tiger."

    Oil companies spend millions of advertising dollars each year to convince you that their oil can make your car's engine perform better and last longer. And purveyors of motor-oil and engine "treatments" assert that their products offer engine protection that oil alone can't provide. In our most ambitious test project ever, we set out to discover whether such claims are fact or fancy.

    One way to gauge the performance of motor oils is to test them on the road. We did just that, using a fleet of 75 New York City taxicabs. Indeed, the oil industry itself tests its oils in New York City taxis.

    For 22 months, we tested the performance of 20 popular motor oils. Each of those oils met the industry's latest standards, as certified by a starburst symbol on the container. (See "It's not just oil," article 3 of 4.) We also tested Slick 50 Engine Treatment and STP Engine and Oil Treatments.

    In addition to the taxicab tests, we had the oils' chemical and physical properties analyzed by an independent lab. We also surveyed our subscribers about their oil-changing experiences and preferences, and we sent shoppers to quick-lube centers across the country to assess the service. Finally, because changing the oil is just one part of car care, we've reviewed some other ways you can help keep your car running longer. That report begins on page 18 (not included in this e-mail).

    Testing the oils


    We put identical rebuilt engines with precisely measured parts into the cabs at the beginning of the test, and we changed their oil every 6,000 miles. That's about twice as long as the automakers recommend for the severe service that taxicabs see, but we chose that interval to accelerate the test results and provide worst-case conditions. After 60,000 miles, we disassembled each engine and checked for wear and harmful deposits.

    Our test conditions were grueling, to say the least. The typical Big Apple cab is driven day and night, in traffic that is legendary for its perversity, by cabbies who are just as legendary for their driving abandon.

    When the cabs aren't on the go, they're typically standing at curbside with the engine idling - far tougher on motor oil than highway driving. What's more, the cabs accumulate lots of miles very quickly, making them ideal for our purposes. Big-city cabs don't see many cold start-ups or long periods of high speed driving in extreme heat. But our test results relate to the most common type of severe service - stop-and-go city driving.

    Each of the 20 oils we studied was tested in three cabs to provide meaningful test results even if a few cabs fell out with mechanical problems or because of accidents. (Six of the 75 engines did, in fact, have problems, none apparently related to the oil's performance.) For a detailed description of our test procedures, see "Testing in the Big Apple," article 2 of 4.

    Our shoppers all across the country bought hundreds of quart containers of oil. Some brands had slightly different formulations in different areas, but all the oils included a full package of additives.

    The independent lab helped us identify the most representative formulations of each brand. Our engineers transferred containers of that oil to coded 55-gallon drums and hauled them to the fleet garage for testing.

    Ideally, oil should be thin enough to flow easily when the engine is cold and remain thick enough to protect the engine when it's hot. The lab analyses of each oil's viscosity characteristics - its ability to flow-indicate that motor oils have improved since 1987, when we last tested them. This time, far fewer test samples failed to meet the viscosity standards for their grade - and those were typically outside the limits by only a slight amount. No brand stood out as having a significant problem.

    We tested oils of the two most commonly recommended viscosity grades - 10W-30 and 5W-30. Automakers specify grades according to the temperature range expected over the oil-change period. The lower the number, the thinner the oil and the more easily it flows.

    In 5W-30 oil, for example, the two numbers mean it's a "multiviscosity" or "multigrade" oil that's effective over a range of temperatures. The first number, 5, is an index that refers to how the oil flows at low temperatures. The second number, 30, refers to how it flows at high temperatures. The W designation means the oil can be used in winter.

    A popular belief is that 5W-30 oils, despite their designation, are too thin to protect vital engine parts when they get hot. However, one of our laboratory tests measured the viscosity of oils under high-temperature, high-stress conditions and found essentially no difference between 5W-30 oils and their 10W-30 brand mates. But at low temperatures, the 5W-30 oil flowed more easily.

    Viscosity grade is important, so be careful. Recommendations vary with the make, engine, and model year of the car, so check your owner's manual and ask the mechanic for the proper grade of oil.

    Of the 20 oils we tested, nine were conventional 10W-30 oils, and eight were 5W-30. We also tested two synthetic oils, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax, and one synthetic-and conventional blend, Valvoline DuraBlend; all three were 10W-30 oils.

    No brand performed best


    If you've been loyal to one brand, you may be surprised to learn that every oil we tested was good at doing what motor oil is supposed to do. More extensive tests, under other driving conditions, might have revealed minor differences. But thorough statistical analysis of our data showed no brand-not even the expensive synthetics-to be meaningfully better or worse in our tests.

    After each engine ran about 60,000 miles (and through 10 months of seasonal changes), we disassembled it and measured the wear on the camshaft, valve lifters, and connecting-rod bearings. We used a tool precise to within 0.00001 inch to measure wear on the key surfaces of the camshaft, and a tool precise to within 0.0001 inch on the valve lifters. The combined wear for both parts averaged only 0.0026 inch, about the thickness of this magazine page. Generally, we noted as much variation between engines using the same oil as between those using different oils. Even the engines with the most wear didn't reach a level where we could detect operational problems.

    We measured wear on connecting rod bearings by weighing them to the nearest 0.0001 gram. Wear on the key surface of each bearing averaged 0.240 gram - about the weight of seven staples. Again, all the tested oils provided adequate protection.

    Our engineers also used industry methods to evaluate sludge and varnish deposits in the engine. Sludge is a mucky sediment that can prevent oil from circulating freely and make the engine run hotter. Varnish is a hard deposit that would remain on engine parts if you wiped off the sludge. It can make moving parts stick.

    All the oils proved excellent at preventing sludge. At least part of the reason may be that sludge is more apt to form during cold startups and short trips, and the cabs were rarely out of service long enough for their engine to get cold. Even so, the accumulations in our engines were so light that we wouldn't expect sludge to be a problem with any of these oils under most conditions.

    Variations in the buildup of varnish may have been due to differences in operating temperature and not to the oils. Some varnish deposits were heavy enough to lead to problems eventually, but no brand consistently produced more varnish than any other.

    The bottom line. In our tests, brand didn't matter much as long as the oil carried the industry's starburst symbol (see "It's not just oil," article 3 of 4). Beware of oils without the starburst; they may lack the full complement of additives needed to keep modem engines running reliably.

    One distinction: According to the laboratory tests, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax synthetics flow exceptionally easily at low temperatures - a condition our taxi tests didn't simulate effectively. They also had the highest viscosity under high-temperature, high-stress conditions, when a thick oil protects the engine. Thus, these oils may be a good choice for hard driving in extreme temperatures.

    Note, too, that a few automakers recommend specific brands of motor oil in the owner's manual. You may need to follow those recommendations to keep a new car in warranty.

    Oil changes: How often?


    The long-time mantra of auto mechanics has been to change your oil every 3000 miles. Most automakers recommend an oil change every 7,500 miles (and a specific time interval) for "normal" driving, and every 3,000 miles for "severe" driving - frequent trips of less than four or five miles, stop-and-go traffic, extended idling, towing a trailer, or dusty or extremely cold conditions. Many motorists' driving falls into one or more of those "severe" categories.

    In our survey, almost two-thirds of our readers said they had their oil changed every 3,000 miles or less. They may be following the thinking expressed by one of our staffers: "I have my oil changed every 3,000 miles because that's what my father did, and all his cars lasted for many years."

    To determine whether frequent oil changes really help, we changed the oil in three cabs every 3,000 miles, using Pennzoil 10W-30. After 60,000 miles, we compared those engines with the engines from our base tests of the same oil, changed every 6,000 miles. We saw no meaningful differences. When Mobil 1 synthetic oil came out, Mobil presented it as an oil that, while expensive, could go 25,000 miles between changes. That claim is no longer being made. But Mobil 1 is still on the market, selling at a premium (along with pricey synthetic competitors from several other companies). And synthetic oil's residual reputation as a long-lasting product may still prompt some people to stretch their oil changes longer than the automaker recommends.

    Determining whether synthetic oils last longer than conventional ones would require a separate test protect. To try to get some indication, we put Mobil 1 synthetic into three cabs and changed their oil every 12,000 miles.

    We intended to compare the results of these tests with those from the three taxicabs whose Mobil 1 was changed at our normal interval, every 6,000 miles. Unfortunately, two of the three engines using the 12,000-mile interval developed problems. (We couldn't attribute those problems to the oil.) The third engine fared no worse than the three whose oil had been changed at 6,000-mile intervals.

    The bottom line. Modern motor oils needn't be changed as often as oils did years ago. More frequent oil changes won't hurt your car, but you could be spending money unnecessarily and adding to the nation's energy and oil-disposal problems.

    Even in the severe driving conditions that a New York City taxi endures, we noted no benefit from changing the oil every 3,000 miles rather than every 6,000. If your driving falls into the "normal" service category, changing the oil every 7,500 miles (or at the automaker's suggested intervals) should certainly provide adequate protection. (We recommend changing the oil filter with each oil change.)

    We don't recommend leaving any oil, synthetic or regular, in an engine for 12,000 miles, because accumulating contaminants - solids, acids, fuel, and water - could eventually harm the engine. What's more, stretching the oil-change interval may void the warranty on most new cars.

    Testing Slick 50 and STP


    We also tested Slick 50 and STP Engine Treatments and STP Oil Treatment, each in three cabs. (Slick 50 costs $17.79 per container; STP Engine Treatment has been discontinued.) All three boast that they reduce engine friction and wear.

    The engine treatments are added with the oil (we used Pennzoil 10W-30). They claim they bond to engine parts and provide protection for 25,000 miles or more. We used each according to instructions.

    The STP Oil Treatment is supposed to be added with each oil change. It comes in one formulation (black bottle, $4.32) for cars with up to 36,000 miles, another (blue bottle, $3.17) for cars that have more than 36,000 miles or are more than four years old. We used the first version for the first 36,000 miles, the second for the rest of the test-again, with Pennzoil 10W-30.

    When we disassembled the engines and checked for wear and deposits, we found no discernible benefits from any of these products.

    The bottom line. We see little reason why anyone using one of today's high-quality motor oils would need these engine/oil treatments. One notable effect of STP Oil Treatment was an increase in oil viscosity; it made our 10W-30 oil act more like a 15W-40, a grade not often recommended. In very cold weather, that might pose a risk of engine damage.

    Recommendations


    None of the tested oils proved better than the others in our tests. There may be small differences that our tests didn't reveal, but unless you typically drive under more severe conditions than a New York cab does, you won't go wrong if you shop strictly by price or availability. Buy the viscosity grade recommended in your owner's manual, and look for the starburst emblem. Even the expensive synthetics (typically, $3 or $4 a quart) worked no better than conventional motor oils in our taxi tests, but they're worth considering for extreme driving conditions high ambient temperatures and high engine load or very cold temperatures.

    On the basis of our test results, we think that the commonly recommended 3,000-mile oil-change interval is conservative. For "normal" service, 7,500-mile intervals (or the recommendation in your owner's manual) should be fine. Change the oil at least that often to protect your engine and maintain your warranty. Even for the severe service experienced by the taxis in our tests a 6,000- mile interval was adequate. But some severe service - frequent cold starts and short trips, dusty conditions, trailer towing - may require a shorter interval. Note, too, that special engines such as diesels and turbos, which we didn't test, may need more frequent oil changes.

    We don't recommend stretching the change interval beyond the automaker's recommendations, no matter what oil you use. Engine combustion contaminants could eventually build up and harm engine parts.

    As for STP Oil Treatment, STP Engine Treatment, and Slick 50 Engine Treatment, our advice is simple: If you use an oil with the starburst symbol, you don't need them.

    Testing in the Big Apple


    New York City taxicabs played a key role in our massive test project to evaluate motor oils. For consistency, we used only 1992-93 Chevrolet Caprice cabs. Each received a precisely rebuilt 4.3-liter V6 at the beginning of its 60,000-mile test. We started with six rebuilt engines; after each engine was installed in a cab, the six engines that were removed were rebuilt and installed in six other cabs-and so on. Using that rotation, we monitored 75 cabs over 4-1/2 million miles of driving in New York City and its environs. Each oil was tested in three engines.

    A local shop completely machined each engine block and crankshaft, rebuilt the cylinder heads, and installed new bearings, pistons, rings, seals, gaskets, and oil pump. Though the engines originally had roller lifters and camshafts, a design that reduces friction, we installed conventional sliding lifters and camshafts to accelerate wear.

    Before the engines were assembled, we measured or weighed the parts most likely to show wear if the oil wasn't doing its job - the camshafts, valve lifters, and connecting-rod bearings. Each cab went through a break-in procedure before hitting the road. During testing, two engine timers measured the time the engine was running and the time it was in gear.

    Over the next 22 months, our engineers paid more than 100 calls - usually without notice - on the fleet garage. They dropped off test oil and picked up used-oil samples for ongoing analysis. They also made sure that oil was being added to the engines when necessary and changed as scheduled.

    After each 60,000-mile test, we remeasured the key engine parts. We also examined combustion-chamber deposits, the color of the valves, scoring of cylinder walls, and valve-deck deposits for any sign of engine problems.

    It's not just oil


    Certainly, motor oil is slippery. That's what helps protect an engine's moving parts. But motor oil does much more than lubricate. It helps cool the engine keep it clean, prevent corrosion, and reduce friction to improve fuel economy. To do all that, refiners blend in various additives, which account for 10 to 25 percent of the product you buy.

    The oil industry has devised a starburst symbol (described at the bottom of this article) to certify that a particular motor oil meets the latest industry requirements for protection against deposits, wear, oxidation, and corrosion. The starburst on the label means the oil meets API (American Petroleum Institute) Service SH requirements - the latest, most advanced formulation. (Service SH supplants SG, the previous top category.) The CD designation on most of the oils we tested refers to diesel performance. The starburst also indicates that the oil passes ILSAC/GF-1 standards developed by the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee, a U.S.-Japanese group. And it means the oil meets Energy Conserving II requirements - it improves fuel economy by reducing engine friction. All the oils we tested carry the starburst - and all performed well in our tests. But note that oils without that symbol may not perform as well.

    Below are some of the additives found in modern oils.

    Viscosity-index improvers modify the oil so its viscosity is more consistent over a wide temperature range.

    Antioxidants prevent the oil from thickening when it runs hot for extended periods.

    Dispersants keep contaminants suspended so they don't form deposits in engine.

    Detergents help prevent varnish and sludge on engine parts and neutralize acid formed in engine.

    Rust and corrosion inhibitors protect metal parts from acids and water formed in engine.

    Pour-point depressants help the oil flow in a cold engine, especially in cold weather.

    Foam inhibitors collapse the bubbles churned up by engine crankshaft. (Foam reduces lubricating effectiveness.)

    Friction modifiers strengthen the oil film and prevent unlubricated contact between moving parts.

    Antiwear agents provide lubrication when oil is squeezed out from between moving engine parts.

    The starburst symbol is a circle with a serrated edge about an inch across with text which reads "AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE CERTIFIED FOR GASOLINE ENGINES."

    Ratings & Recommendations Motor oils




    Shopping strategy
    Discount stores are generally the least expensive place to buy oil. Look for sales and buy by price - but make sure the container has the starburst symbol.

    Details Listed alphabetically
    All the tested oils performed well in our tests, and all claim to meet the latest (API-SH and ILSAC/GF-1) industry standards (see "It's not just oil," article 3 of 4). Prices are the average for one quart, based on a national survey of discount stores.

    5W-30 oils

    Castrol GTX $1.21
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container.
    Exxon Superflo
    Price not available; not widely found in discount stores. Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container with window.
    Fire & Ice All-Season (Shell) * $0.93
    Different formulations in Florida and New York. Graduated container with window.
    Havoline Formula 3 (Texaco) $1.11
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container with window.
    Mobil * $0.95
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container with window.
    Pennzoil $1.16
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container.
    Quaker State Deluxe * $1.20
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container with window. 10W- 30 is called Super Blend.
    Valvoline All-Climate $1.14
    Different formulations in California and Texas. Graduated container with window.




    10W-30 oils

    Castrol GTX $1.18
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container.
    Exxon Superflo $1.13
    Different formulation in Florida. Graduated container with window.
    Fire & Ice All-Season (Shell) * $0.99
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container with window.
    Havoline Formula 3 (Texaco) * $1.13
    Different formulations in Illinois and Texas. Graduated container with window.
    Kendall Superb 100 * $$1.23
    Different formulation in Florida. 5W-30 version not tested.
    Mobil 1 synthetic $3.76
    Low-temperature flow characteristics were better than most. Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. 5W-30 version not tested. Graduated container with window.
    Mobil $0.95
    Different formulation in New York. Graduated container with window.
    Pennzoil $1.16
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container.
    Pennzoil Performax synthetic $2.97
    Low-temperature flow characteristics were better than most. No 5W30 version. Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled.
    Quaker State Super Blend * $1.20
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container with window. 5W-30 is called Deluxe.
    Valvoline All-Climate $1.13
    Different formulation in California. Graduated container with window.
    Valvoline Semi-Synthetic DuraBlend Conventional/synthetic blend * $2.12
    Appears to use same formulation in all areas sampled. Graduated container with window, No 5W-30 version. Flow characteristics were more like those of a conventional oil than those of a synthetic.
    * One or more samples differed from viscosity-grade requirement by a small amount.

    http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm

  11. #55
    KLS
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    If you had that same engine, 2UZ-FE, in a Landcruiser in Australia, they'd recommend either 10W-30 or 20W-50. 10W-30 will work fine for you in SoCal.
    http://www.caltex.com.au/products_oi....asp?section=2


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    I'm not about to speculate as to whether or not synthetics are superior to conventional oil in their various properties. I also will not suggest what anyone should use in their truck, because who would listen to me anyway?

    I will mention that I am a police officer with a municipal police agency and have worked at 2 different departments for nearly 8 years. Our department mechanics could not even tell me what brand of oil they use. All they knew was that it is cheap, comes in 55 gallon drums and is SUPPOSED to be changed every 3000 miles. They also use fleet (unknown brand) filters. All of these items are purchased with the common goal of getting the least expensive supplies available. (I suspect that most law enforcement fleets are in the same boat.)

    Like most other agencies, we run Ford Police Interceptors (Crown Victoria police package) with the OHC 4.6L V-8's. We also have a few Ford Explorers (off the lot base 4WD models - no police package) for winter, supervisory and general patrol usage. Believe me when I tell you, these cars are not gently driven. They are not broken in properly. They run at high speed. They sit outside all winter. They are also often subjected to stone cold engine full throttle acceleration when we get a good call at the beginning of a shift. They sometimes idle for hours and are also at the mercy of many different drivers and driving styles. Oh yeah, they also go over 3000 miles when we forget to write them up for preventative maintenance. (I've seen cars with 2.5 quarts left in the oil pan.) Usually, we rack up well over 100,000 miles in 3 years or less. Tires are shot in 4000 to 7000 miles. For some reason the front brake pads on the 2003 Interceptors are only lasting 7,000 miles when the older models would go longer. I wouldn't believe it myself if I didn't see it. Basically they are prime examples of how not to treat an engine or a vehicle in general.

    No-one in our department, (including the mechanics) can remember the last time that we had an internally lubricated part engine failure. We do go through transmissions and an occasional rear end, suspension parts and electrical parts and an occasional deer on midnight shift (hood, fenders, windshield, grill, lights). This was the same with the old Chevrolet Caprices with the LT-1 350's.

    Again, I am not advising anyone to do anything. I am just saying that the previous Consumer Reports article seems to correlate well with our experiences here. What do I run in my personal truck and motorcycle engines you ask? Synthetics. And I feel like a sucker every time that I walk out of the store. The guy who bought my '98 S-10 ZR-2 got one well maintained synthetic lubricated vehicle and I got nothing extra out of the deal.

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    Synthetics do have better resistance to oxidation and thermal degradation.

    I know the local county maintenance shop foreman. He uses Chevron 10W-30 oil and WIX filters in the sheriff's Crown Vic cruisers with 5000 mile oil drain intervals. He's had no engine failures, and shop foremen from nearby counties have told him that they've had engine failures using the 5W-20 oil that Ford recommends.

    All these shops would save money if they used the right oil, oil analysis, and cost analysis...and give up old ways of thinking if there is evidence of better ways. They'd get 10,000 miles, easy, from oil and filters and save money.


    Ken
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    Racor LFS22825 full-flow transmission filter
    Towing a 21' Bigfoot trailer using a Hensley Arrow hitch, Jordan brake controller, McKesh mirrors

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy the pinhead

    They still haven't tested any 'true' synthetics, just derivatives and blends...until they compare Amsoil, RP, or RL to dino juice--the argument is still open

    ...and cheap people will still pour $0.59 per quart store brands down the throats of their beloved engines...

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    Quote Originally Posted by marks tundra
    I see a lot of people over concerned about the brand and oil type let it be conventional oil or synthetic.Our engines will not see the benefit of a synthetic oil i.e. only racing applications may benefit an engine, say top fuel or nascar racing.To many of us are paranoid in thinking were getting better lubrication for some reason with synthetics and can run our oils longer than a normal interval of 3k-5k. I myself have gone back to using castrol dino and changing it at 3k- 4k with a good filter.Synthetic oils may be better than conventional in certain applications, and does not benefit us in every day driving. It's not worth the added money for what gain? Maybe in our minds!!
    How did YOU determine this. My response, and not intended to hurt or flame, is BALONEY. But, go ahead if it makes you feel good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marks tundra
    designed for everyday driving and offroad applications. From my experience of even using Tech 2000 Oil and Filter(walmarts oil & filter) in my 1990 Acura Legend LS I purchased it in 1992 with 26,000 mi and just sold it last year with 198,000 mi WITHOUT ANY engine work.I replaced timing belt once.The car never burned oil.My father uses castrol in his 1986 toyota 4x4 with over 200,000 mi and never had any engine work.

    Your scientific "research" is most impressive. The main benefit to synthetic oil is the fact its coefficient of friction is lower then regular oil, and virtually all dyno tests I have seen show a slight improvement in HP, and most people see an improvement in MPG as well.

    I am going to continue to use it, you go ahead with the walmart oil.
    2002 Tundra SR5, TRD Off-Road with Limited Slip
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