I have an 02 HL V6 AWD 90K miles. Always serviced at dealer with shorter than recommended intervals. Hopefully someone can help with this problem.
Last Spring CEL comes on. Check oil, level is low. Add oil. Continue checking oil and note continued consumption. Discussed with dealer and they top off oil and I bring back twice. After 500 miles oil is 1 quart low. Next time after 900 miles oil is almost 2 quarts low. Dealer agrees oil comsumption problem.
Also, have intermittent exhaust smoke on startup.
I'm aware of and have the paperwork for the oil sludge settlement of which my HL is covered. Make my case to the dealer that blue smoke and oil consumption is cover under this settlement. They remove valve cover ($125)and say no sludge problem therefore not covered under the settlement. Dealer says must be something else. SA tells me $5K to rebuild engine if that is the problem.
I call number on settlement paperwork (Toyota corporate), give them details. They have dealer SA call me back and say they need to again remove the valve cover to determine the problem (another $125). He says that they may have to do some type of pressure test, doesn't give cost. He also says that if problem is valve guide the cost is all mine. If the problem is bad rings, Toyota will share in the cost, whatever that means.
If anyone can provide any input/advice on this topic it would be greatly appreciated. I know very little about engines.
Also, I read something on the internet that indicated that a clogged PCV valve could cause excessive oil consumption. That's apparently a $10 item. Can anyone verify if this could be the problem.
Does anyone know the cost to repair valve guides or the cost to repair bad rings?
thanks in advance for any solutions!!
Last edited by irishcasey; 08-26-2008 at 06:31 PM.
The valve guides and piston rings are completely different things. I'm not sure why Toyota would cover one and not the other, but they are not related. Neither are related to sludging, and if you remove the valve cover and don't see any sludge, than there isn't any.
The valve guides would be much cheaper to replace. Still a grand or two. The piston rings require complete removal, disassembly and rebuild of the engine. Or a low mile used engine. Either will be 4-5 grand.
In other engines, PCV valves stuck have caused oil consumption. Mazda6 V6 comes to mind. It is a $10 part. You can try replacing it. I haven't heard of this being a problem on any Toyota.
The fact that it smokes on startup and not during accelleration makes me think it's valve guides, if I had to shoot from the hip.
They probably want to do a compression test. They screw a gauge into the spark plug hole and crank the engine. Then the pour some oil in the hole and crank it again. If the readings are the same, it's the valve guides. If it changes, it's the piston rings. If the readings look similar to what a new engine would read, it's neither, but the fact you see smoke means it will be one of the two.
If Toyota isn't covering anything, I would seek a competent private mechanic. I know a good one is hard to find. But it could be a $1000 difference. You could even have one do a compression test, that's nothing specific to Toyota.
Was this ever resolved? My 02 Highlander with 182000+ kms is having similar problems burning oil, no blue smoke is present though. It went through 4+ liters of 5w30 oil in 2700 kms before I noticed it (no warning lights came on).
I'm about to take it to a Toyota dealer to have them check the following:
1. Oil gelling/sludge (under valve cover or in oil pan). This should be covered by Toyota's 8 year/unlimited milage engine warranty I think.
2. Worn valve guides/piston rings (wet/dry compression test, vacuum test, leak down test).
3. Clogged PCV valve/hoses, I'm really hoping that this is the problem as it is the cheapest fix!
4. Check both O2 sensors.
Anything else I'm missing? Any help is appreciated.
Was this ever resolved? My 02 Highlander with 182000+ kms is having similar problems burning oil, no blue smoke is present though. It went through 4+ liters of 5w30 oil in 2700 kms before I noticed it (no warning lights came on).
I'm about to take it to a Toyota dealer to have them check the following:
1. Oil gelling/sludge (under valve cover or in oil pan). This should be covered by Toyota's 8 year/unlimited milage engine warranty I think.
2. Worn valve guides/piston rings (wet/dry compression test, vacuum test, leak down test).
3. Clogged PCV valve/hoses, I'm really hoping that this is the problem as it is the cheapest fix!
4. Check both O2 sensors.
Anything else I'm missing? Any help is appreciated.
The 01-03 3.0 HL V6 had gelling issues if not carefully maintained with very frequent OCI's using a quality oil of proper grade. (Just using the standard HL Maintenance schedule was not enough.) Hence the Gelling Settlement which applied to many V6's for close to 10 years of most Toyota v6 engines. (starting from the early 1990's)
The Gelling Issue Class Action was resolved for all owners of this engine. And the warranty was owner transferrable. I would verify independantly that Gelling is the issue. Get an oil analysis if possible. Then Force Toyota at corporate level to address it. Start by calling Toyota 1-800 # to register your HL with yu as the current owner. Then let them know yu may have a Gelling issue engine. Tell them yu want a copy of the Class Action Settlement. They must supply it to yu by law. I guarranty the original owner had a copy.
It was supposed to be left with the vehicle in the glove box for any subsequent owner.
I had recieved a copy from Toyota for my preowned 01 Avalon also same 3.0 engine. Yet I have no gelling issues. Engine was maintained with M1 5w30 oil from day one (with dealer records)
In my experience this Gelling issue has been the predominent cause of excessive oil consumption. So don't let anyone tell yu otherwise.
The Gelling issue was caused by an Improper/Inadequate Crankcase Ventilation Engine Design.
There is always the exception ...that the engine was abused/neglected by the prior owner. I would not want to go there at this point. Lets just keep that as mere speculation.
Confirm the Gelling issue. Get a replacement engine under warranty. It won't come easy. Yu have to fight hard. Let Toyota Corporate suggest a dealer to use if they ask. There is a reason for this.
I say yu might need a new/rebuilt engine. (Unless yu have a very close relationship with one specific Dealer.)
(or yu could just invest in several cases of cheap bulk oil and continue driving as is?)
Good luck.
LT
Last edited by LifeTech; 01-03-2009 at 10:52 AM.
Reason: spel
The gelling issue affects the whole internal oil gallery from the heads/valvetrain right down to the piston rings on the lower block.
If there is excessive varnish at the heads and worn valve guides....be warned that yu definitely have lower block issues at the rings. This is where most of the oil blowby(oil loss) is occurring.
But no dealer will disect the lower block. Just redoing the heads is not enough. It will not solve the Gelling damage . I have seen heads replaced only to find that it was not solving the problem.
A significantly gelled/varnished out engine needs to be replaced. No bandaids will help.
1 quart of oil per 500 miles....the engine is toast for sure!!!! (right down to the pistons)
LT
Last edited by LifeTech; 01-03-2009 at 10:59 AM.
Reason: spel
Was this ever resolved? My 02 Highlander with 182000+ kms is having similar problems burning oil, no blue smoke is present though. It went through 4+ liters of 5w30 oil in 2700 kms before I noticed it (no warning lights came on).
I'm about to take it to a Toyota dealer to have them check the following:
1. Oil gelling/sludge (under valve cover or in oil pan). This should be covered by Toyota's 8 year/unlimited milage engine warranty I think.
2. Worn valve guides/piston rings (wet/dry compression test, vacuum test, leak down test).
3. Clogged PCV valve/hoses, I'm really hoping that this is the problem as it is the cheapest fix!
4. Check both O2 sensors.
Anything else I'm missing? Any help is appreciated.
Hi Wavracer,
No the issue was not resolved for me. I posted the original post. I had dealer check for sludge which they said there was none. I had the PCV valve changed and that hasn't seemed to help. So right now I'm just adding oil as needed. Good luck. If you find out something please post.
I have an 02 HL V6 AWD 90K miles. Always serviced at dealer with shorter than recommended intervals. Last Spring CEL comes on. Check oil, level is low.
How many quarts did you have to add to get the level back to the Full mark on the dipstick?
Adding oil would not cause the Check Engine Light to go out. So how did you get Check Engine Light to go out?
Or was oil Oil Pressure light illuminated, rather than the Check Engine Light?
Well, I took my 02 Highlander to the Toyota dealer and they found no signs of oil gelling/sludge under the valve covers or in the oil pan. They did however replace the valve covers, PCV valve, and seals under warranty. I guess there was a design change of the valve covers and PCV valve to prevent the oil gelling/sludge and high oil consumption issues. I live in Canada and the work was all covered under warranty by Toyota for 8 years/unlimited milage, so we'll see if it fixes it. The dealer says they had two other Highlanders previously that they replaced the valve covers and PCV valve on and it fixed the high oil comsumption.
Well, I just checked the oil 810 kms after the repair - and the oil level is reading exactly the same as when I checked it right after the repair! This is good, previously it would consume 1+ L every ~700 km. I'll post again when I make it to the next oil change (after ~5000 km) with results.
It would appear that if the dealer is willing to go so far as to remove the valve cover(s) for inspecting for gelling due to excessive oil loss, that it would be prudent to do the valve cover Warranty replacement right then and there. This should be discussed at the onset of the R.O writeup with your service adviser. Many dealers will charge the unsuspecting consumer for this repair.
But, leaking valve covers should be apparent to any Tech. based on initial observation. Leaking as much oil as yu described just cannot be missed.
Does anyone know what a Secret Warranty is??The subject of the Secret Warranty has been a big problem with all auto makers. Especially here in the USA. It is a real auto/consumer problem. The Feds have come up short in preventing this. The auto makers pick and choose who (which customer), what, when and if they will honor a known documented defect. But auto makers have lobbied much too strongly and thwarted Congressional efforts in preventing this behavoir by the Auto Industry. No wonder the big three are going down the tubes. But all Mfrs. do this.
Caveat Emptor
LT
Last edited by LifeTech; 01-30-2009 at 09:09 AM.
Reason: spel
Wavracer - Congratulations. Can you tell me a little more about what is involved in "replacing the valve cover."
Also, what warranty was this covered under, the sludge settlement warranty? Or is there another warranty that would cover the valve cover. Any information is greatly appreciated. They also replaced the seals, what is involved with that?
Wavracer - Congratulations. Can you tell me a little more about what is involved in "replacing the valve cover."
Also, what warranty was this covered under, the sludge settlement warranty? Or is there another warranty that would cover the valve cover. Any information is greatly appreciated. They also replaced the seals, what is involved with that?
Thanks.
I have attached the only paperwork I have, which is the 'warranty' part of the invoice. All I know was that both of the valve covers and the gaskets, and the PCV valve and gasket were replaced under warranty because there was a design change of the valve covers and PCV valve to prevent the oil gelling/sludge and high oil consumption issues. I live in Canada and the work was all covered under warranty by Toyota Canada for 8 years/unlimited milage. I have now driven 1200+ kms without any oil consumption by the way.
Last edited by wavracer; 02-03-2009 at 09:11 PM.
Reason: corrected "seals" to "gaskets"
Thanks for posting about your experience Wavracer.
I have an '06 RAV4 that is consuming oil. I wonder if this might work in my case too.
One question... did you notice any oil leaking out of your valve covers?
Thanks!
Good question, but no. There were no apparent oil leaks of any kind, not under the vehicle, or on, or around the engine. It is winter here with lots of snow, so any oil leak would be easy to spot. There was also no visible blue smoke on cold start or any other time. It was like the engine was just hungry for oil, like it thought it was an outboard motor or something.
Thankfully it doesn't comsume oil anymore (1300+ kms now without using a drop).
Depending on how cold ambients get where yu live . (10 degrees F and below)An engine can blow-by oil past the rings especially if the grade of oil is TOO Thick and yu cold start frequently during these cold days. I also noticed that Synthetic oil grades such as a Ow20 or Ow30 , whichever weight20 or 30 is appropriate for your engine will reduce oil consumption dramatically. But in any event, the first number, "O", provides for proper flow down to very extreme temps.
Also understand that as oil gets used/old, the TBN number gets close to a 1. the oil gets very thick and this will in turn contribute to the above regardless of type and grade of oil. Old and expended oil goes "Out of intended Viscosity" range ... always gets thicker. Initial Cold start oil flow becomes poor. Consumption goes up dramatically!
In Very cold climates, I like to warm up the engine to at least 100 deg F before driving/ loading the engine. Less oil will be burned...less carbon will build up.
Many say this is not necessary but I have proven this theory over and over again. Especially true for Aluminum Block engines.
LT
Last edited by LifeTech; 02-06-2009 at 10:13 AM.
Reason: spel
'02 Oil consumption question
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