This is coming out in the next couple months. Rated 20/27 mpg. I am shopping between a matrix, xB, Sienna, and Highlander. Im either going small for mpg or big for room. Any word on street price for the 4 cyl highlander?
Im thinking the venza is not big enough (like a RAV4). I really want a sienna, but I dont want to be locked into poor mpg for the next 10 years. If there was a 4 cyl sienna (or diesel) thats what Id prefer.
You should look into one before even considering the RAV4 over the Venza. The Venza is built on the same plate form as the Camry, Sienna, Highlander, ES-series, and RX-series. The RAV4 is pretty much just a Corolla and Matrix jack up high off the ground. Besides, the Venza shares most of it stuff with the Camry and Highlander. Plus, the 2.7L engine is better then the 2.4L engine.
The MSRP of the 4 cyl Highlander should be almost $1,000 less than the V6, but the actual street price might be about the same since the 4 cyl will be in greater demand, hence dealers won't have to discount them as much to make them move off the lots.
Toyota will likely phase the 2.7L into the Rav4 and Scion models in the next year or two and fuel economy would likely be 2-3 MPG better than with the existing 2.4 L
The MSRP of the 4 cyl Highlander should be almost $1,000 less than the V6, but the actual street price might be about the same since the 4 cyl will be in greater demand, hence dealers won't have to discount them as much to make them move off the lots.
Toyota will likely phase the 2.7L into the Rav4 and Scion models in the next year or two and fuel economy would likely be 2-3 MPG better than with the existing 2.4 L
A 4cyl in a heavy suv like the HL is not a good idea. Especially in the 08+4wd HL platform.(500 pounds heavier than the 07's) Yeah some people willwant it. But Toyota will not sell many of them on the HL platform. The 01-07 HL's reflected this.
And the 2.7 dvvti has the Ponies, but Torque is a little shy. And MPG is not that much better to warrant the 4cyl.
Saving Nickels at the sacrifice of driveability is not being practical. Penny wise pound foolish.
If yu truly want an economical vehicle with a 4 cyl... consider a smaller and more appropriate platform...The Rav is the way to go.
Toyota V6's inherently run more efficiently than thier I4's historically speaking. I'm not downplaying any Toyota I4. Just stating the facts. V6's have traditionally been more efficient over the long haul vs a comparable platform using an I4. mileage wise V6's generally are more trouble free and run tighter when they approach the 100K mark.
Used Car pricing has reflected this for many years. The market does not lie.
(Just MY OPINION)
Last edited by LifeTech; 12-30-2008 at 08:54 AM.
Reason: spel
Im not sure the 2.7L will do 2-3 mpg better in the RAV4 and scions. I rented the RAV4 2x and got 23 mpg by beating the crap out of it. IMO thats pretty good.
IMO the best toyota engine is the 1.8L, and I wish they had put that in the xB instead of the 2.4L. I dont think bigger is better in this case. The xb is only 300 lbs more than the corolla. The 2.7L will be fine in a HL.
2.4 liter 4 cyl engines had no trouble lasting 400,000 miles in the heavy Previa Van and 4Runner 4WD SUV.
So a 2.7 liter 4 cyl will have no trouble lasting a long time in a Highlander.
If todays spoiled car owners were willing to accept 0-60 MPH acceleration times of 15 seconds like they were in the 1970's Toyota could build a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder for the Highlander that would get about 33 miles per gallon at 65 MPH. The #1 reason gas mileage hasn't improved in recent decades is because today's car owners are spoiled and unwilling to accept a vehicle that won't do 0-60 MPH in 10 seconds or quicker.
In Europe there are still some car owners willing to accept a 0-60 MPH in 15 seconds car so Toyota is introducing a 3 cylinder, 1.0 liter Yaris sized car for them that will get 56 MPG at 60 MPH.
Driving style and habits as well as maintenance habits dictate the longevity of any engine.
The I4's just may last several hundred K but light footGranny style driving as well as religious maintenance would be required.
I just feel that I4's are not as forgiving when used in a V6's originally intended platform.
In heavier vehicles, one has to really lay into the pedal to get these I4's driveable in todays traffic and highways. This counters the economy reason for getting an I4.
It appears that the Rav4 is one platform that would justify an I4. Using power to weight ratio as a determining factor alone. Have yu ever wondered why Toyota starts production of V6 equipped platforms before they initiate I4 production of the same platform. Toyota predicts low demand for the I4 option. Profit margin is really not a factor here. Toyota holds out ...then that I4 niche buyer will create an artificial demand for it. Then as the model matures ...the demand peters out. At least for us here in the USA.
It's only marketting.
In any event, I predict that the new 2.7 is probably Toyotas best I4 to date.
BTW, the Venzahas been described by Toyota to be closely designed around the Avalon chassis. (chassis dimension wise)
LT
Last edited by LifeTech; 01-09-2009 at 09:38 AM.
Reason: spel
LT, it runs counter to your theory that the early Highlander V6's were the ones with chronic problems not limited to sludging causing complete engine failures.
Here's my theory that real world experience correlates with. The highest volume engine produced by Toyota will be the most reliable. And for every 3.5l V6, they'll make five 2.5/2.7 liter I4's when one considers worldwide production. Now consider all the problems Toyota had with the debut of the current gen V6 in the Camry, basically taking them off the recommended CR manufacturers list. I don't hear similar problems from 2009 Rav4 buyers, 80% of which have the new I4.
The Highlander with this new I4 has the same power to weight ratio as a Fit/Yaris/Versa, or the majority of vehicles from the 1990's. It's not an unreasonable mill even though the new HL is quite heavy. It certainly won't be the volume runner, but I bet takeup will be over 20%, which is more than the V6 takeup in the Rav or Camry.
Granny style driving? To prevent what problem, exactly?
LT, it runs counter to your theory that the early Highlander V6's were the ones with chronic problems not limited to sludging causing complete engine failures.
Here's my theory that real world experience correlates with. The highest volume engine produced by Toyota will be the most reliable. And for every 3.5l V6, they'll make five 2.5/2.7 liter I4's when one considers worldwide production. Now consider all the problems Toyota had with the debut of the current gen V6 in the Camry, basically taking them off the recommended CR manufacturers list. I don't hear similar problems from 2009 Rav4 buyers, 80% of which have the new I4.
The Highlander with this new I4 has the same power to weight ratio as a Fit/Yaris/Versa, or the majority of vehicles from the 1990's. It's not an unreasonable mill even though the new HL is quite heavy. It certainly won't be the volume runner, but I bet takeup will be over 20%, which is more than the V6 takeup in the Rav or Camry.
Your position comes with some merit. Based on a Global Marketting strategy. I agree. The Rav4 I4 being typical. I4's dominate the foriegn market.
Granny style driving? To prevent what problem, exactly?
No specific problem.. just mileage longevity "wear wise" ( valvetrain/lower end/Piston rings. It is logical to say running an engine at a higher "load" will sustain more wear.
Any Toyota engine can last several hunderd K with proper maintenance and use. The potential always exists. Not down playing any I4's . I4's are Toyota's bread and butter... claim to fame. Toyota's products like much of the industry have grown heavier troughout the 90's and as such there has been a movement to V6's and V8's based on this weight increase. The heavier the car ... more torque is needed. Just a general rule on this trend.
I appreciate your input LT. I'm not worried about an engine having to rev a bit to get going, especially a toyota engine. The 6 speed tranny will help prevent that a bit. Ive been in HiAce's and Hiluxes and Urvans and while in the mountains. They seem to hold up fine. I am really looking for the biggest vehicle with best mpg. I think its going to the 4 cyl highlander or the new Sienna (2010?). Im hoping the sienna has a 4 cyl or 4 cyl hybrid or even a small diesel option. Either way, I think toyota put themselves in a good position with the highlander, being that they could rush a 4 cyl version to the market once gas got ridiculous. I think they should hybrid it too, and see if it can get 30/30 mpg.
We just bought and 09 V6 Highlander and love it. Plenty of room, no real freeway driving yet, but we're still averaging 19.5 mpg. Very comfy.
We test drove the Venza first, it's the same body as the Lexus RX 330, but with cushion and insulation removed. It felt a little bouncy on the road, and since we want something economical for long trips, we went to be comfortable too. We didn't think the Venza would make it, comfortably, for too long.
2009 highlander 2.7L 4 cyl
Linear Mode
