Like the guy blaming GM? I guess because they tried a composite bed that failed in the market? That bed was a lot MORE expensive than the steel one that came standard, right? I heard it failed exactly because it was an expensive option, not due to any performance issue.
And all the posts saying that Toyota went to the composite material to save money? Can Toyota get a better price than GM could? Plus Toyota is really advertising the hell out of the bed.....So that tells me that the composite bed costs more than the steel. You don't brag about something unless you think its valuable, and you don't think its valuable unless you paid more for it!
Also the people that think the steel bed is easier to repair than the composite? SMC has been around for decades, and so have repair kits. Scratch, crack, gouge, hole...all repairable, and cheaply.
You're right I might be wrong in finding a blame to post on the original evil guy with it's plastic cars. But the facts are the facts! Talk to all the happy GM custmers with chunks of front fenders missing from their Camaros, Firebirds, and the oh so famous and economical Saturn cars.
Or ask the person driving down the highway with his/her chunck of stepside missing. And if that wasn't bad enough they don't have to be missing any part of their yellow bed the air running through the wheel wells makes the sides flap nicely in the wind.
Are you kidding me the current offering of SMC is a JOKE! When the side of a solid stepside bed or styleside for that matter starts flapping under air pressure you've lost me! I'm all for thinking outside the box. Whatever technology will advance my vehicle lets go for it. But don't try to explain to me the advantages of being wrapped in plastic. I'm not last nights leftovers.
But, hence, you're right we now have it so just live with it right!
I sure as heck hope they don't provide this in the next Tundra!
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MODS:
20"Enkei Wheels--Red Top Optima Bat--LineX Bedliner
I've been thinking about this for a few days. After seeing the two gouge marks on the front of the bed near the crack, I started to wonder. Could it be possible that the two are related? Chris said he had probably 500-600 lbs. of gear in the bed (a pretty good load) along with the shell on top. If he were in rough terrain, could that load have shifted on a downhill slope and slammed into the front of the bed? A sharp metal object could have been driven into the bed surface making the two gouge marks and the bed could have cracked from the weight/impact of the gear pushing forward on the bed wall. In that case, the shell would have nothing to do with the damage. This is purely speculation, I'm just trying to figure out what happened here
Fact one toyota has gotten rather cheap on some stuff in the year's but this really top's it and chris isnt the only one i've been of a few tacoma board's and the finding's will surprise you.A plastic bed period is just plain wrong on all level's not only is this material a bad choice but from a lot of truck people's logic it doesnt last on real truck's use.Fact one should you receive a gash from a colemen stove? If it was me i would raising hell within Toyota and demand for a new truck and not go with Tacoma.It really doesnt surprise me that toyota is short changing there customer's esp in the lower end Tacoma they will try do some cost cutting to save money problem problem is there shortcut's are not worth my time why reason why I didn't purchase one as my daily driver..I really sort of liked the new Tacoma a vast improvment on the older truck which i really didn't care for but after reading a few owners concern's and reading on other board's the truck really isn't what it's cracked up to be and Toyota customer's will see that in the end and trade to the tundra or something else.Tacoma in general is a ok truck dont get me wrong but as i see Toyota compact truck doesn't make up in term's of overall refinement still wished it had a v8 and still wished the seat's were of better grade material's and the overall handling has improvement (very little body roll like the pasted 04 tacoma's) but overall many will find the strenghs and negitive side's(pro's and con's ) of the smaller Tacoma.
Yet another useless post with no facts to back it up...
1) Show proof of Toyota cutting cost with numbers... Just because you THINK it looks cheap dosen't usually mean it cost less...
2) People are still calling these things plastic... They're SMC, period... It is mainly plastic, but it has other materials in it, so get used to calling it SMC...
3) One person with ONE stove ended up with a gash... Yeah please by all means raise hell and why not just drop by toyota with a printout of this tread saying how crappy their new truck is and please see if you can get a truck of way under invoice...
4) You obviously base your decisoins on someone else's findings... Take it upon yourself to judge a Tacoma after you driven one... Suspension noises and ONE cracked bed makes the Tacoma something not worth buying IMO is rediculous... I'm not a Toyota fan boy and I hate a mass of their cars, I am not trying to help out the Taco just because I'm owning one soon, (I only know the X-Runner, I have no care what the other models bring) but I'm speaking in general terms of how you can object something so dearly based on total stranger's on the inernet behind their monitors...
5) The person that traded in their 05 was concerned about its 4x4 abilities... NOT as an everyday driver... Lets once again stick to the facts...
6) If you want handling, get the X-Runner, it'll pull more Gs on the skidpad than your 04 can ever dream about stock for stock...
7) Toyota has been nothing but concerned and fast acting upon this issue... The only thing we're concerend about now is the new bed's fit and finish, how it'll hold up again, what kinds of problems are we going to see from Chris because he's been the more stressful test of the bed thus far...
oh btw, nice touch by talking about the "BED"...
Quote:
Let me ask you guys this: Do you thing the plastic bed takes away from a truck's macho image?
Nothing spells man like "Line-X?" IMO a Line-X bed looks sorta the same as the SMC one from afar, so nah, there is no loss in machoness... The macho comes from the engine, not the bed The clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes... You know I can go on, but I'm still waiting for Chris' update!!!
edit: I should of looked at the poster's name before I even said anything, now I feel like I wasted a lot of time... The name itself already spells out Tundra fan boy telling us why he dosen't like the Tacoma...
“Composites have never been very big in Japan, but now we’re talking with Honda and Toyota,” White says, adding that Toyota is studying the use of composites for closure panels such as doors and decklids.
Unlike on the GM trucks, the composite boxes will be standard on Toyota Tacoma and the Honda SUT, sources say. Toyota sold 154,154 Tacomas in the U.S. in 2003, up 1.4% from the prior year, according to Ward’s data.
“There’s a big growth market for composite boxes,” says Hugh Foran, sales manager for ThyssenKrupp Budd Co., which will manufacture a short and long composite box for the Tacoma at a new plant 12 miles (19 km) from Toyota’s facility in Tijuana, Mexico. Budd will use sheet-molding composite (SMC) to produce Tacoma’s box.
Toyota will finish the boxes before shipping them to the New United Motor Mfg. Inc. vehicle assembly plant in Fremont, CA. The new Tacoma launches in mid-2004 as an ’05 model.
Toyota has pursued a composite box for Tacoma because tooling costs are lower ($5 million, compared with $25 million for tooling a steel box), and because additional features can be molded into the box, Foran says. "
Steel is at a premium because China bought up most of the world's supply about 7 or 8 months ago. So, it makes sense that Toyota is looking for ways to cut costs but not customers. It's not included in the above, but the bed weighs 10% less than a 100% steel bed.
“Composites have never been very big in Japan, but now we’re talking with Honda and Toyota,” White says, adding that Toyota is studying the use of composites for closure panels such as doors and decklids.
Unlike on the GM trucks, the composite boxes will be standard on Toyota Tacoma and the Honda SUT, sources say. Toyota sold 154,154 Tacomas in the U.S. in 2003, up 1.4% from the prior year, according to Ward’s data.
“There’s a big growth market for composite boxes,” says Hugh Foran, sales manager for ThyssenKrupp Budd Co., which will manufacture a short and long composite box for the Tacoma at a new plant 12 miles (19 km) from Toyota’s facility in Tijuana, Mexico. Budd will use sheet-molding composite (SMC) to produce Tacoma’s box.
Toyota will finish the boxes before shipping them to the New United Motor Mfg. Inc. vehicle assembly plant in Fremont, CA. The new Tacoma launches in mid-2004 as an ’05 model.
Toyota has pursued a composite box for Tacoma because tooling costs are lower ($5 million, compared with $25 million for tooling a steel box), and because additional features can be molded into the box, Foran says.
Steel is at a premium because China bought up most of the world's supply about 7 or 8 months ago. So, it makes sense that Toyota is looking for ways to cut costs but not customers. It's not included in the above, but the bed weighs 10% less than a 100% steel bed.
See a post like this I can appreciate!!!
Thanks for more info, you've been pretty much the most resourceful thus far...
I'd say, figure out how to Line-X the SMC and we're set...
Thanks for the input... I completely agree! Thank you for being objective about this new truck. I don't currently drive a Toyota, but everywhere I look, I see they've owned up to their vehicles' issues. I will definitely stop by my local dealer soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAuss
Yet another useless post with no facts to back it up...
1) Show proof of Toyota cutting cost with numbers... Just because you THINK it looks cheap dosen't usually mean it cost less...
2) People are still calling these things plastic... They're SMC, period... It is mainly plastic, but it has other materials in it, so get used to calling it SMC...
3) One person with ONE stove ended up with a gash... Yeah please by all means raise hell and why not just drop by toyota with a printout of this tread saying how crappy their new truck is and please see if you can get a truck of way under invoice...
4) You obviously base your decisoins on someone else's findings... Take it upon yourself to judge a Tacoma after you driven one... Suspension noises and ONE cracked bed makes the Tacoma something not worth buying IMO is rediculous... I'm not a Toyota fan boy and I hate a mass of their cars, I am not trying to help out the Taco just because I'm owning one soon, (I only know the X-Runner, I have no care what the other models bring) but I'm speaking in general terms of how you can object something so dearly based on total stranger's on the inernet behind their monitors...
5) The person that traded in their 05 was concerned about its 4x4 abilities... NOT as an everyday driver... Lets once again stick to the facts...
6) If you want handling, get the X-Runner, it'll pull more Gs on the skidpad than your 04 can ever dream about stock for stock...
7) Toyota has been nothing but concerned and fast acting upon this issue... The only thing we're concerend about now is the new bed's fit and finish, how it'll hold up again, what kinds of problems are we going to see from Chris because he's been the more stressful test of the bed thus far...
oh btw, nice touch by talking about the "BED"...
Nothing spells man like "Line-X?" IMO a Line-X bed looks sorta the same as the SMC one from afar, so nah, there is no loss in machoness... The macho comes from the engine, not the bed The clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes... You know I can go on, but I'm still waiting for Chris' update!!!
edit: I should of looked at the poster's name before I even said anything, now I feel like I wasted a lot of time... The name itself already spells out Tundra fan boy telling us why he dosen't like the Tacoma...
1) Show proof of Toyota cutting cost with numbers... Just because you THINK it looks cheap dosen't usually mean it cost less...
KAuss, you are so right...even that info about the lower tooling cost doesn't mean the per part price is less. Those tooling costs are a minor part of the calculation. At 150,000 trucks a year, for 10 years, $20Mil in tooling only works out to like $13 a bed! Plus, Toyota does their own stamping and tooling, right? So that $25Mil number is probably high.
2) People are still calling these things plastic... They're SMC, period... It is mainly plastic, but it has other materials in it, so get used to calling it SMC...
I don't think you can even say it is "mostly plastic"....What's the fiber %? If its over 50%, we could start calling it the "glass" bed! An equally inaccurate name...but one that would generate just as much knee-jerk opposition.
5) The person that traded in their 05 was concerned about its 4x4 abilities... NOT as an everyday driver... Lets once again stick to the facts...
Another hammer on the nail, and perhaps my main gripe. 05Tacoma is better for 98% of the population (everyday/light work usage), and worse than 04 for those of us seriously into "enjoying the journey" back to the place we started! I hope Toyota has something in the works for us...
7) Toyota has been nothing but concerned and fast acting upon this issue... The only thing we're concerend about now is the new bed's fit and finish, how it'll hold up again, what kinds of problems are we going to see from Chris because he's been the more stressful test of the bed thus far...
... but I'm still waiting for Chris' update!!!
Yeah, I am giving Toyota the opportunity to show that they can fix the problem. But if Chris puts that camper back on again and runs it offroad again, I bet it's gonna crack again, and in the same spot! Some other post said he thought the stove may have caused the crack...How much does that stove weigh? Just to be sure, Chris should run the stress test with just the topper, tie the stove up some where besides the headboard!
Yet another useless post with no facts to back it up...
1) Show proof of Toyota cutting cost with numbers... Just because you THINK it looks cheap dosen't usually mean it cost less...
2) People are still calling these things plastic... They're SMC, period... It is mainly plastic, but it has other materials in it, so get used to calling it SMC...
3) One person with ONE stove ended up with a gash... Yeah please by all means raise hell and why not just drop by toyota with a printout of this tread saying how crappy their new truck is and please see if you can get a truck of way under invoice...
4) You obviously base your decisoins on someone else's findings... Take it upon yourself to judge a Tacoma after you driven one... Suspension noises and ONE cracked bed makes the Tacoma something not worth buying IMO is rediculous... I'm not a Toyota fan boy and I hate a mass of their cars, I am not trying to help out the Taco just because I'm owning one soon, (I only know the X-Runner, I have no care what the other models bring) but I'm speaking in general terms of how you can object something so dearly based on total stranger's on the inernet behind their monitors...
5) The person that traded in their 05 was concerned about its 4x4 abilities... NOT as an everyday driver... Lets once again stick to the facts...
6) If you want handling, get the X-Runner, it'll pull more Gs on the skidpad than your 04 can ever dream about stock for stock...
7) Toyota has been nothing but concerned and fast acting upon this issue... The only thing we're concerend about now is the new bed's fit and finish, how it'll hold up again, what kinds of problems are we going to see from Chris because he's been the more stressful test of the bed thus far...
oh btw, nice touch by talking about the "BED"...
Nothing spells man like "Line-X?" IMO a Line-X bed looks sorta the same as the SMC one from afar, so nah, there is no loss in machoness... The macho comes from the engine, not the bed The clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes... You know I can go on, but I'm still waiting for Chris' update!!!
edit: I should of looked at the poster's name before I even said anything, now I feel like I wasted a lot of time... The name itself already spells out Tundra fan boy telling us why he dosen't like the Tacoma...
To be honest your post sound's a little negitive but i'll excuse that .To be honest.It's not that i dont care for the Tacoma it's just the type of material's the Tacoma has which is plain jane cheap for example in the year 2000 when i looked at them i was die hard set on getting a 4wd Tacoma that was intill my other Toyota was in the shop and i rented one for a week let's just say my overall impression of the Tacoma was rather bad not only was the handling pretty bad but the overall seat material was plain jane cheap(tweed type cloth if i recall) .Overall i have a few friend with newer 02 up Tacoma's and one with a quad tacoma they both seem to be pretty nice truck's but they too have noted the same issues i mentioned on seat quality and choice of material .About cost cutting i know all too well about Toyota motor's and how they work the choice of the bed was very much a cost cutter and the epa mpg esimate offset.You want fact's look at the overall product ( i aint bashing toyota but you know what Toyota does make some crappey ideal's there no different then the rest)
Are you kidding me the current offering of SMC is a JOKE! When the side of a solid stepside bed or styleside for that matter starts flapping under air pressure you've lost me! I'm all for thinking outside the box. Whatever technology will advance my vehicle lets go for it. But don't try to explain to me the advantages of being wrapped in plastic. I'm not last nights leftovers.
But, hence, you're right we now have it so just live with it right!
I sure as heck hope they don't provide this in the next Tundra!
BT-22, I had the most tasty leftover Calzone today ! Some stuff is better the next day
Your points are valid, I think SMC has gotten a bad rap due to the door outer panel/stepside outer fender flimsy reputation. But have you seen the Tacoma bed floor? It's not your Saturn composite door panel. It's thicker, more rigid, and it's got humongous ribs on the underside. Shopping cart bounces into the bed floor of the Tacoma, it's not going to oilcan in and out.
Plus, there's more than one kind of SMC, right? There's no way the Tacoma bed SMC is the same as those stepside outer fender panels?
Also, you must have noticed that Toyota did not put composite material on the outer fenders. They must have considered the issues you saw.
Yep, I think we are going to find out whether this SMC holds up, because we are stuck with it for a while.
Finally, my guess is that your future Tundra is safe from the SMC technology scare. Watch out for bedliner-induced rust...
To be honest your post sound's a little negitive but i'll excuse that .To be honest.It's not that i dont care for the Tacoma it's just the type of material's the Tacoma has which is plain jane cheap for example in the year 2000 when i looked at them i was die hard set on getting a 4wd Tacoma that was intill my other Toyota was in the shop and i rented one for a week let's just say my overall impression of the Tacoma was rather bad not only was the handling pretty bad but the overall seat material was plain jane cheap(tweed type cloth if i recall) .Overall i have a few friend with newer 02 up Tacoma's and one with a quad tacoma they both seem to be pretty nice truck's but they too have noted the same issues i mentioned on seat quality and choice of material .About cost cutting i know all too well about Toyota motor's and how they work the choice of the bed was very much a cost cutter and the epa mpg esimate offset...
Thanks for showing your sienority by not starting a flame war... Yes my intentions was not to sound positive at all, however none of the points I read from your post (including this one) implies anything specific to "this" situation... What we seriously need is a whole bunch of support, and most importantly Chris' feedback so we can all get some closure... This IMO is the biggest concern in a lot of people's minds... However as it still stands, 8 almost 9 pages later... This is still the only known case... Compare this to the amount of people who has successfully transported things as 2 motorcycles on their bed (all while using the D rings which are attached to the railing that seems even more flimsy than the bed itself) to tons of bricks and what not from Toyotanation forums, you'll soon see this truck bed does work, in a LOT of situations, just NOT this one...
Seriously, I would of defended myself after my own post, but once again, you bring up experiences that have:
1) nothing to do with this issue
2) nothing to do with current tacomas
3) nothing but opinions and not facts...
I'm glad you did find a truck that fit your need with a V8 and maybe better seating materials, I do understand this is a forum and we're all here to have fun I just broke my own rule by typing this and shows you that I too am here to have fun No hard feelings either way, but seriously, upping the power almost 50 hp with a N/A motor over the old 3.4's is a feat if you ask me... The 05 is a whole new ball game... So hopefully after you see and toss one around in person (I still assume you didn't) you'll see the truck in a different light...
There is always room for improvement, without support everyone will not see progress... This is the place the post originated, however this is also the site with the worst feedback... I followed up on Toyota nation's replies and they're skeptical like all, but there has been far more support from them than here which is surprising...
Thanks for showing your sienority by not starting a flame war... Yes my intentions was not to sound positive at all, however none of the points I read from your post (including this one) implies anything specific to "this" situation... What we seriously need is a whole bunch of support, and most importantly Chris' feedback so we can all get some closure... This IMO is the biggest concern in a lot of people's minds... However as it still stands, 8 almost 9 pages later... This is still the only known case... Compare this to the amount of people who has successfully transported things as 2 motorcycles on their bed (all while using the D rings which are attached to the railing that seems even more flimsy than the bed itself) to tons of bricks and what not from Toyotanation forums, you'll soon see this truck bed does work, in a LOT of situations, just NOT this one...
Seriously, I would of defended myself after my own post, but once again, you bring up experiences that have:
1) nothing to do with this issue
2) nothing to do with current tacomas
3) nothing but opinions and not facts...
I'm glad you did find a truck that fit your need with a V8 and maybe better seating materials, I do understand this is a forum and we're all here to have fun I just broke my own rule by typing this and shows you that I too am here to have fun No hard feelings either way, but seriously, upping the power almost 50 hp with a N/A motor over the old 3.4's is a feat if you ask me... The 05 is a whole new ball game... So hopefully after you see and toss one around in person (I still assume you didn't) you'll see the truck in a different light...
There is always room for improvement, without support everyone will not see progress... This is the place the post originated, however this is also the site with the worst feedback... I followed up on Toyota nation's replies and they're skeptical like all, but there has been far more support from them than here which is surprising...
Are you sure you didnt rest on top of a rock? and instead of putting a big dent in the bottom of it, the whole truck was being supported by the bed and it started to crack in half? if not .. just make sure next time you use a shell that fits properly
... but ya i think composites are more the way to go. it takes time to work out the right formula that is the strongest/best for what you trying do. If i had a composite bed i wouldn't have a dent in the wheel well (through line-x too). If my friend had more of a composite body he wouldn't have to get rid of his 86 taco(dieing of truck cancer). Less wieght, more power is always a good thing too.
Are you sure you didnt rest on top of a rock? and instead of putting a big dent in the bottom of it, the whole truck was being supported by the bed and it started to crack in half? if not .. just make sure next time you use a shell that fits properly
... but ya i think composites are more the way to go. it takes time to work out the right formula that is the strongest/best for what you trying do. If i had a composite bed i wouldn't have a dent in the wheel well (through line-x too). If my friend had more of a composite body he wouldn't have to get rid of his 86 taco(dieing of truck cancer). Less wieght, more power is always a good thing too.
Pretty far fetched to say you probably would of survived the dents, but we'll never know... If you're in the market for one, then I guess you can put it thorugh the test...
BTW, what exactly caused that dent that ran through the Line-X?
i was handing my friend a really heavy rock and it was pointy at one end and he dropped it... would have been a lot worse if i didnt have line-x.... nothing big but if it was stock vs stock i think that the composite bed would've held up a lot better... would've been more flexible and able to take the flexing...
oh btw, nice touch by talking about the "BED"...
IMO a Line-X bed looks sorta the same as the SMC one from afar, so nah, there is no loss in machoness... The macho comes from the engine, not the bed 
Thanks for the objectivity!
Thanks for the input... I completely agree! Thank you for being objective about this new truck. I don't currently drive a Toyota, but everywhere I look, I see they've owned up to their vehicles' issues. I will definitely stop by my local dealer soon.
Linear Mode
