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Interior & ExteriorDiscussions about the interior, and exterior of your vehicle.
This is a discussion thread titled "Cabin Air Filter?", within the Interior & Exterior forum, part of the Technical & Vehicle Assistance Forums category.
The noise issue could be corrected by building a set of baffles to absorb the sound. Seems there's enough room there to do it. I noticed allot of noise just in the city with the back seats out and wasn't sure if it's from the vents or the poorly insulated rear wall. I was going to plug the vents and test drive again.
Without the seat there is a ton of room back there...lots of ideas about what to do with that space. It allows the driver seat to be laid flat. That one is electric. Funny though, the passenger seat which is mechanical wouldn't go all the way to the floor. Oh well.
I'll let you know what I find out about the noise issue. Maybe just some better fitting sound-absorbing insulation would work better than the 'felt' used now.
Jeff
Jeff, it's the vents. I dynomatted the back wall and put 1/2 inch noise insulating aerospace foam in there from one door to the other and on the floor/storage area.
It was quite a bit of work. Then my girlfriend went for a test drive with me and she said, "you know, I think that all the noise is coming through those vents". Gees, and I just did all that work.
She's right. What I did was like putting in super insulated sound deadening windows in your house next to freeway and then cracking the windows open!!!
Yes, it is quieter with the sound deadening - definitely. But a way to really quiet those vents is to baffle them. I haven't gotten around to it, but I'm sure that you could cut at LEAST 3 db of noise out if you could block the noise coming through that vent. That means you would need half the radio power that you would need now and it would still sound the same.
That's a lot. Usually that's the max you can get on a whole vehicle when you dampen *everywhere*. With the Tundra, you're starting from a pretty quiet beginning. They even have (small) pieces of dynomat on the floor coming from the factory.
Fortunately you have the seat there to kill the sound or it would be intolerable.
I went through the same process that you did - dynomatted the entire back wall leaving the vents open, and noticed very little improvement. I would like to know your source for the 1/2" noise insulating aerospace foam. I have removed the rear seat semi-permanently, and will probably build an inslulated panel that covers the entire back wall including the vents.
What are you thoughts on the importance of those vents for re-circulating air? I always run the A/C on the position that allows bringing outside air in instead of re-circulating the same old air. I have installed Ventivisors and crack the window when a little fresh air is needed.
In summary, I find the noise level from those two *&@*%! vents so loud, I think I will block them up.
Regarding the discussion about sound deadening the rear cabin wall. I have the TRD duals and they have a slightly annoying drone at highway cruising speed. I ordered some sound absorbing foam from McMaster-Carr over the net, and it worked perfect for this application. The part number is 5692T49 and the description is "Flat Sound Absorbing Foam, Adhesive Back, Skinned Surface, 1" thick, 54" wide." I ordered 2' at a cost of $18.02 which was just the right amount to do the back wall in the Tundra. I also ordered a sheet of the generic Dyna-Mat (part number 9709T19, polymetric mastic damping sheet, adhesive backed, 32"x54") from McMaster-Carr. I removed those back vent covers and covered the outside of the covers with cut-to-fit strips of the sound damping sheet. I did not cover up the holes in the vents. I plan on using the rest of the polymetric dampening sheet in other areas later.
I couldn't ask for better results. This mod resulted in a significant reduction in road noise and I can barely hear those TRD duals now while cruising.
That 1" sound absorbing foam is the trick. Per the catalog specifications, it has a noise reduction coefficient (NRC) of 0.80, which is the best I could find in a 1" thick or less absorber (an NRC of 1.00 is the best you can get and typically only available in foams >3" thick). Rather than just dampen the sound waves, sound absorbers are designed to convert the sound waves to heat energy, thereby eliminating them (with an NRC of 0.80, it eliminates 80% of the sound waves that strike it).
I went through the same process that you did - dynomatted the entire back wall leaving the vents open, and noticed very little improvement. I would like to know your source for the 1/2" noise insulating aerospace foam. I have removed the rear seat semi-permanently, and will probably build an inslulated panel that covers the entire back wall including the vents.
What are you thoughts on the importance of those vents for re-circulating air? I always run the A/C on the position that allows bringing outside air in instead of re-circulating the same old air. I have installed Ventivisors and crack the window when a little fresh air is needed.
In summary, I find the noise level from those two *&@*%! vents so loud, I think I will block them up.
Tom
Dynomatting isn't enough. You'll need absorbing foam too. Not so much to stop sound from going through the wall as to catch the sound that is bouncing back and forth from the seat as it comes out the vent. (unless of couse, you've got a low frequency rumble, like an exhaust - that's a LOT of energy to absorb). That's why it can rattle glass, a trunk lid, etc. It's a lot of sound energy. That's why it takes 300 watts or more to drive a subwoofer. Works the other way too - you have to absorb 300 watts of the same low frequency sound to make it quiet.
Since you're pulling the seat, you'll need to put foam inside your box as well as on the wall.
I's say the IDEAL material to use would be sound absorbing accoustic cones (foam that looks like egg crate material). Put one layer on the wall around the vents, then put some on the inside of your box. That would kill the sound, but let the air pass. A second thought would be to use the 1 inch foam that akie6 used on both the wall and the inside of your box. But I think accoustic baffles would work better and a box 4 inches thick (thinner than the back seat now) would be fine.
DON'T close those vents. It would be dangerous. Not that it would ever happen, but if you got an exhaust leak and it leaked into the cabin, you'd be killing the "natural" exit for the gas (you're getting fresh air whether or not the fan is on). Very, very very remote; but you could kill yourself that way. Too, you'd really screw up the ventilation unless you'd open the window all the time. I don't like that idea much. Too, you'd have even more ambient noise coming through the window than ever came through that vent.
If I was going to put a box there, I'd put fans on those rear vents to increase the air flow. I find that with my sun roof sucking air I don't even really need to turn my fan on except to turn on the air conditioning electrically and even then it's only on 1 (unless it's cooking hot, then the air conditioning is not very good even on high unless you recirc). It's a lot better ventilation that way and you don't have any fan noise (well, not much it's being dampened too) coming from the dash since you won't have to turn the fan up high to get a good air flow.
That's on my to do list and is a little "bit of work". Close down those vents and put a fan driven exhaust system so that the air would be pulled out rather than pushed from the dash. It's a LOT quieter that way. Too, I can enclose those vents a lot more with sound dampening material.
My problem is that I can't put too much material thickness there as I want to put amplifiers there too.
The two little vents in the back also help prevent your windows from shattering when you shut your door, as they let the air pressure escape. So, you might think about that before you seal them off.
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Originally posted by hockeyfreak The two little vents in the back also help prevent your windows from shattering when you shut your door, as they let the air pressure escape. So, you might think about that before you seal them off.
That's a good point.
There are two paths for the air to exit (besides a cracked window). The shortest is through the rear vents, but it certainly can reverse through the air intake for the heating system unless you've got the system on recirc. Then it has to go through the rear vents. It's just a matter of which side of the intake has higher pressure. That's the side the air will flow from.
Do we Tundra owners have a cabin fan air filter? I was thinkin maybe it'd be a good idea to replace it now at 60,000 miles. I know some vehicles don't, if we do where is it located at?
Yu can baffle the vents to reduce incoming road noise, but DO NOT Close them off.
Putting a filter on them to keep clean is just redundant because these vents release air from the cabin. Yu cannot control dirty air from exiting. A filter placed over these vents will just end up restricting these exhaust vents.
Yu need to somehow filter the incoming air if a cabin filter is not equipped. This would be better and more functional.
I know you guys love to do mods, but in this case I think it would work better if you just bought an Ionic Breeze air purifier from Brookstone (they make 'em for cars and trucks also) and plug it into the electrical outlet. I have the big ones you get for the house. They are totally silent and work great, no filter to change ever, just wipe the mirror plates clean and your good to go. They pick some nasty black crap out of the air (looks exactly like soot) must be all the diesel and pollution we get here in Los Angeles.
In THEORY the sharper image Ionice Breeze works, however, Tests have shown that the product is not effective by itself in an average size room. Same for the Bathroom version and the Car version that are sometimes given as a promo for free to sell the larger Unit. These smaller ones are worthless too.
Sharper image loves to show off the metal plates that collect dirt and get black. Everyone goes wow, is that what I was breathing??
But it is really not representative of the big picture.
Tests have shown yu would need an Ionic breezethe size of a Refrigerator with a multitude of metal plates to "clean the air" of particulates in a typical size room.
Only filter media type air purifiers actually trap and collect contaminants in the air, based on volume of recirculating air.
But, Sharper Image has been successful and made the bulk of their profits with this one product because they gambled and spent SO much money on marketting. Truly a success story for Sharper Image...their stocks reflect this directly. Yet the product is way subpar for it's intended use!
So, many people feel this expensive product is a household name in air purifiers. And feel it is an effective product. Not!
Marketting at it's finest.
Google this, please don't take my word for it.
Many friends and neighbors have one and it is a catching fad due to mainly marketting , then word of mouth. And, quite frankly why wouldn't someone recommend something that costs this much.
It is almost a status product to have.
I would be embarrassed to say it sucks after spending $400. on it.
Yu would need like 5 of these Ionic Breezes plugged in for one room to become slightly effective.
It's just another Sharper Image Novelty Product.
I suffer year round allergies for my whole life, and I have researched this till I dropped ...looking for a remedy. Trust me.
My spin on a very off topic.
LT
BTW, from my experience with friends owning these I will say that it removes odors. Albeit an expensive deoderizer.
Last edited by LifeTech; 01-05-2008 at 03:21 PM.
Reason: spel
I don't know if we do or not...not a bad idea though....
Not sure which vehicle you're referring to but I know on my 06 Tundra, I definately do not have a cabin filter according to dealer and my digging around the dash/engine bay, I asked dealership on my 15 and 20K tune-ups and got a double no.
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V/R, Steve Key West, Florida '06 TRD 4X4 DC Tundra, Hidden Hitch front hitch, SS Hitch Step, Bak Flip Bed Cover, Sylvania Silverstars, Sirius Satellite and More To Come...
the 07/08 Tundras indeed have a cabin air filter. It is behind the lower glovebox. You have to remove the glovebox itself and right behind it you'll see a white unit, it has two clips on either side. Push them in and the actual filter pulls right out. I'd take pictures but I dont particularly feel like ripping apart my Tundra yet again.
in advance
Trust me.
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