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This is a discussion thread titled "By Request: Why Axis Powers Lost WW2", within the Off-Topic forum, part of the General Forums category.
By popular damand this is the place to debate how the Axis Powers could have won the Second World War or anything related to WW2 "What Ifs".
Enjoy!
what if they were stronger and planned better? Then they could have won right????
__________________ '05 Tundra DC TRD 2 WHL: The TOW truck, Spectra Mica Blue, with Kenwood H/U, Kenwood Amp and crossover. Infinity 6010cs, 10" Rockford SUB, 6 disc CD Changer mounted in Center console, SWI-X to retain steering wheel controls, 7" TV with DVD. Tinted Windows, Three chamber Flowmaster, Painted front chrome strip
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Hitler was under no Axis Treaty obligation to declare war on the US on Dec 8th 1941. Just because the Japanese attacked the US didn't mean he had to declare war. it turned a 1 1/2 front war into a true 2 front war and lead to the ultimate exhaustion of German resources. Even if Roosevelt wanted to get at Hitler more then the Japanese, the American public was mostly issolationist at the time and after Dec 7th would have been totally focused on war with Japan. Had Hitler done nothing Americans would have focused on Japan and Lend Lease would have dried up quickly leaving the British and Soviets to rely solely on their own resources.
what if they were stronger and planned better? Then they could have won right????
Being stronger: Doubtful.
Germany was almost fully mobilized against Britain when they attacked the Soviet Union. They most likely could only strengthen themselves by bringing the war with Britain to a quick close so they could focus on the Soviets, eliminate the US threat, and benefit from seaborn imports of war materials. As time went on the Soviets would, as they did, build in strength.
This leads to #2 Better Planning: also Doubtful.
German military planning was by far the most advanced in theory and practice in the world, the German General Staff was ledgendary for its well thought out and executed battle plans and strategies. The problem laid with the person who made the decisions. Hitler didn't finish off Britain before attacking the Soviets and actually believed he could beat the Soviets then turn back and beat the British when he should have done it the other way around.
Antichrists never win, they may have a few small victories but the Jewish people are now back into the land of Israel. They are God's people and He will always preserve them no matter how many Hitlers come along. By the way I am of Austrian descent but the Germans were fools for allowing Hitler and his cronnies into power. Hitler broke the cross of Christ and subjected his people to his tryanical reign.
Why would any one want to Germany to win under Hitler, unfortuantely we did not defeat him more quickly. Visit a death camp or talk with a holocaust survivor. This thread should be how we could of defeated him quicker. Unfortunately the assassination did not work.
By popular damand this is the place to debate how the Axis Powers could have won the Second World War or anything related to WW2 "What Ifs".
Enjoy!
The answer is quite simple: They ran out of fuel. Ninety million Germans took on the rest of the free world and almost beat them until they had no more gasoline to fuel their trucks, tanks, airplanes, etc.
Some of you may recall the story I posted last year about my now-deceased great uncle who was a prisoner-of-war in Germany in 1945. One of the jobs they gave him as a POW was to run a wood-chipping machine to make fuel for steam-powered cars that the Germans had to resort to so they could free up gas for the front lines. They were that desparate. Their middle-East oil supplies had been cut off. The Germans were even making gasoline out of coal until we bombed all their refineries out of existence.
Ever see the movie The Battle of the Bulge (1965)? Remember the scene at the end of the movie when the long line of German soldiers were walking back to Germany from France? That pretty much says it all.
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Antichrists never win, they may have a few small victories but the Jewish people are now back into the land of Israel. They are God's people and He will always preserve them no matter how many Hitlers come along. By the way I am of Austrian descent but the Germans were fools for allowing Hitler and his cronnies into power. Hitler broke the cross of Christ and subjected his people to his tryanical reign.
Why would any one want to Germany to win under Hitler, unfortuantely we did not defeat him more quickly. Visit a death camp or talk with a holocaust survivor. This thread should be how we could of defeated him quicker. Unfortunately the assassination did not work.
Hitler in the latter half of the war was more an asset to the Allied cause then a hindrance. That's why Churchill, having developed an assassination plan, was convinced by US and British strategy analysts not to assassinate him.
Hitler issued a no retreat order, which instead of preserving valuable men and material, allowed the Soviets to encircle and kill or capture vast amounts of German soldiers and equipment. Instead of a fighting defense he threw away men and machines at a rate the Allies couldn't have hoped to achieve without his "help". The man didn't believe in Defense and as a consequence he actually shortened the war.
Had Hilter listened to his generals he would have had much more available to stop the Soviet advance as it left the open steppes of Asia and approached the smaller, more confined and easier to defend eastern Europe. Soviet resources, even at the height of the Battle of Berlin, were always limited and even a small stop in the advance could have lead to an negotiated settlement between the 2 dictators.
If nothing else Hitler's value to the Allied cause is demonstrated on D-Day when his military commanders in Normandie were paralysed and couldn't move their available units to the beaches because Hitler demanded to make ALL such decisions personally and no one wanted to wake him up to ask for his promission.
Had he been assassinated in the 2nd half of the war it is most likely either Goering or Himmler would have taken his place but would have had to compromise with the Wehrmacht commanders on the conduct of the war in order to stay in power. Imagine if Rommel or Guderian had been in full command at D-Day and not sleeping Hitler.
I would rather think that the Screaming Eagles had a rendevous with Destiny as they sing at FT Campbell. Their destiny was to be a band of brothers along with the rest of our military to defeat this murdereous regime. Good always triumphs over evil. America should of got out of their isolationist views a lot quicker and maybe so many would not of died in the death camps. Churchill new the deal pretty quick and was not a fool like his predecessor Neville Chamberland. The French were living in fantasy land and thought a few defenses were enough against a very powerful and smart foe. It cost them dearly along with all our men who are burried their from America and other allied nations.
The answer is quite simple: They ran out of fuel. Ninety million Germans took on the rest of the free world and almost beat them until they had no more gasoline to fuel their trucks, tanks, airplanes, etc.
Some of you may recall the story I posted last year about my now-deceased great uncle who was a prisoner-of-war in Germany in 1945. One of the jobs they gave him as a POW was to run a wood-chipping machine to make fuel for steam-powered cars that the Germans had to resort to so they could free up gas for the front lines. They were that desparate. Their middle-East oil supplies had been cut off. The Germans were even making gasoline out of coal until we bombed all their refineries out of existence.
Ever see the movie The Battle of the Bulge (1965)? Remember the scene at the end of the movie when the long line of German soldiers were walking back to Germany from France? That pretty much says it all.
This also leads to another mistake Hitler made that could have resulted in an easy German victory.
The Southern Strategy
In July 1940 Britain had 1 light armored brigade and 3 non mechanized infantry divions in North Africa. Had Hitler and Mussolini put 3 armored division in N. Africa at that time they could have taken the entire Sahara and Middle East. Britain would have lost the Suez Canal (cutting it off from Middle East oil and India) then the Germans would have had an unlimited supply of oil and could threaten the Soviet Union from 2 fronts. In such a vulnerable position Stalin wouldn't have dared to move against the Germans and might have been forced to release the Baltic States, Belarus, Ukraine and the Caucus States to German control to avoid a 2 front war against an oil rich German war machine.
Britain would then have found it difficult to remain in the Mediteranian Sea and would have been isolated on their island home and completely dependent on the US for oil and other supplies. Most likely the lost of the Suez Canal would have resulted in the collapse of Churchill's coalition government in favor of a "peace" Prime Minister like Lord Halifax.
Yeah, I was pretty much gonna say their big mistake was tangling with Britain and America at the same time .
Germany also did not count on Norway spoiling their atomic plans, and they should've bumped production on their jet fighter.
Then there's propaganda and psychology...would you be more willing to fight for freedom or conquest? They were screwed from the beginning.
...and that is my keyboard quarterback historian moment for the day . I have no background in this stuff other than what popular culture and museums can provide .
The other mistake Hitler made during his attack on Russia was better winter clothing for his troops. Instead, he thought the battle would be over quickly. So his men froze to death, machines wouldn't work, and the Russians had proper clothing and took advantage of that fact.
Hitler also made the decision to rip up Russian train tracks, and replace them with German tracks. The width of each train car was different and he didn't like depending on Russian trains.
I think he should have used open cars, then transferred the equipment from German to Russian trains. The result would have been more supplies and faster.
__________________ The Tundra is a good single guy's truck. Its pretty, it doesn't rattle too much and its fast. Now I just need to find a woman who matches in all those respects.
Yeah, I was pretty much gonna say their big mistake was tangling with Britain and America at the same time .
Germany also did not count on Norway spoiling their atomic plans, and they should've bumped production on their jet fighter.
Then there's propaganda and psychology...would you be more willing to fight for freedom or conquest? They were screwed from the beginning.
...and that is my keyboard quarterback historian moment for the day . I have no background in this stuff other than what popular culture and museums can provide .
-Sean
How did Norway spoil their atomic plans? The sinking of the barge with heavy water really was not that important as Hitler really knew He did not have enough time to develop a bomb. Otherwise they would of guarded that water much more carefully.
Hitler should have attempted a hearts and minds campaign, try to win over the countries he invaded so they would help him continue to fight.
I've read that the French were close to being on the side of the Germans, not all of them, but some of them.
The Bulgarians supplied the Germans with weapons, I'm surprised they didn't get them to supply troops to fight the Russians.
I think Germany needed to declare war on the U.S. for a couple of reasons. First, the U.S. didn't have a huge build-up of arms, were inwardly focused and for those reasons might cower.
More importantly, the Americans were supplying everybody with whatever they wanted, the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits. It made sense to try to stop them.
Hitler should have turned up the heat on the convoys across the Atlantic, plus they should have taken Iceland.
__________________ The Tundra is a good single guy's truck. Its pretty, it doesn't rattle too much and its fast. Now I just need to find a woman who matches in all those respects.
The other mistake Hitler made during his attack on Russia was better winter clothing for his troops. Instead, he thought the battle would be over quickly. So his men froze to death, machines wouldn't work, and the Russians had proper clothing and took advantage of that fact.
Hitler also made the decision to rip up Russian train tracks, and replace them with German tracks. The width of each train car was different and he didn't like depending on Russian trains.
I think he should have used open cars, then transferred the equipment from German to Russian trains. The result would have been more supplies and faster.
Maybe if Hitler was smart he would not of tried to fight a two front war. His quick victories in Europe went to head and he did not understand logistics. Logistics do not win wars by themselves but when they when wars are lost they are the first to be blamed. I know I have serve with logisticians. Never got credit for what we did but if things go bad it is all our fault. It was refreshing to move on to warfighter units in that regard.
Often Europeans visiting North America will do the same. They land in some place like New York and think they can rent a car and see L.A., Florida, Texas and Washington state when they've only got 1 week.
__________________ The Tundra is a good single guy's truck. Its pretty, it doesn't rattle too much and its fast. Now I just need to find a woman who matches in all those respects.
By Request: Why Axis Powers Lost WW2
'05 Tundra DC TRD 2 WHL: The TOW truck, Spectra Mica Blue, with Kenwood H/U, Kenwood Amp and crossover. Infinity 6010cs, 10" Rockford SUB, 6 disc CD Changer mounted in Center console, SWI-X to retain steering wheel controls, 7" TV with DVD. Tinted Windows, Three chamber Flowmaster, Painted front chrome strip 
1994 Toy: 
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